shaheediyan Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 http://www.shastarvidiya.org/ Nice refurb. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 excellent site, wish they updated the videos, hopefully they will soon! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 I don't recall their Akharas being called 'Shiv' Akharas on the previous website. The title 'Sanatan Hindu Sikh Shastarvidya' seems to be new as well. I suppose that's one of the advantages of being a make-it-up-as-we-go-along Parampara! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Every incarnation of their site gets a longer name lol! Reminds me of African poiliticians who see a long name as a status symbol. What's the reasoning behind their new name? It doesn't make sense, especially if you know the true meaning of the word 'Hindu'. It's funny that he gives a list of names for Shastarvidya used in Gurbani to show that 'gatka' is not used anywhere. But neither is 'Sanatan Hindu Sikh anything '......... What are Sanatan-Hindu-Sikh texts? I have to say that it looks pretty though (the website). I wish Teja Singh was a member of this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 The Nihangs can obvioulsy speak for and defend themselves, but I would just like to add a few thoughts. I have seen the words Snaatan, Chhattri and Suraj Vanshia used in association with Akali Nihangs in literature 100 years old (which I am not obliged to share at this moment in time). Snaatan word has been and is used in the Hindustani world widely - specifically in religious circles. In order to understand the use of Shiv Akara - one needs to be versed ni Indian Martial Arts and traditional schools. Again I take the example of music - all Vedic and medieval references to Shaastri Sangeet schools and theories go back to one of the Indian Demi-Gods, same is true for Indian Classical dance. It's true of most Indian art forms. so this is not surprising. Other than that one has only to see the effectiveness and usage of the Shiv pentra to see why the Akhara has been dedicated in name as such. I would advise looking into the South Indian fighting schools and their ancient lineage in order to understand the context. Regarding the usage of the word Hindu - I expect it is to provoke reaction from Hinduphobes. Other than that it may be a statement to show that the vidya is not Sikh rooted, but belongs to the much more ancient Indian (Hindu) tradition - as such the are giving due regards. These are just my own thoughts and in no way represent the reasons or views of the website owner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Other than that it may be a statement to show that the vidya is not Sikh rooted, but belongs to the much more ancient Indian (Hindu) tradition - as such the are giving due regards. The word or concept 'Hindu' isn't ancient by any means, but it's a free world so they can call it whatever they want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Nobody said Hindu was an ancient term - although it's route has been used by Greeks philosophers in their treaties over 2,00 years ago - used in terms of describing the people of the Indus Valley - as opposed to the WWW theory that its a Perian term meaning slave. In modern terms and in my opinion - it refers to people of India (Hindustan) as I said - with the notion of it being a religion, a very shallow one. It could be coined as being a collection of Indian traditions, which is where I think they are coming from i.e. Sikhi being one of many Indian traditions (geographic, cultural and religious intermix). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 nice art work, Nihang teja singh is a great web designer. Anyway i was surfing through the website, stumbled across this passage under intro source: http://www.shastarvidiya.org/introduction.jsp My question, where can such individual who have doubts in the contents of the website can debate with the author of the website regarding contents? akhara? online chat line? email? this forum perhaps? Invitation is given but venue isn't? Can they please clarify? I am sure our freind narsingha watching this thread closely since perhaps we might be the only forum allowing their website to be advertised not because we agree with their contents but we don't beleive in censorship in anyway and besides we got learned gursikhs on this forum who can debate with them scholarly. So please if they can clarify that be great. As far copying the image of that disclaimer goes instead of just proving url, its done within the quote and source provided...hopefully thats ok with you guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Why do they called themselves "Surajbansi"? you can only be Surajbansi through blood lineage i.e. through your caste descent. The only authentic Surajbansis I'm aware of are Rajputs and even Khatris. And why do they change the name of their martial arts so often? first it was called "Chatka Gatka" on their original site, then it was renamed "Shatra Vidya" and now "Hindu Sikh Shatra Vidya". What will they name it next? I think the old site was better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Suryavansi is one of 2 anceint Kshatri lineages - and warrior clans - the other being Chandravansi - Akali Nihangs take claim to the former - via 10th Master / Guru Sahiban being from this clan of Kshatris. Also, the Nihang Akaras claim Vidya is from Sri Ram Chandra tradition - who himself was Suryavanshi. One can still see forms of Suryavanshi namaskar practiced through Shastar Pooja done by Nihangs and other Indian Warrior groups - esp South Indian. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 The theory that the word Hindu means slave is not a www theory. It's at least 100 years old. Dayanand hated the use of the term hence his founding of the Arya Samaj and asking his followers to use that term and not Hindu as he viewed that as being a term of abuse. In the last 1900s the Arya Samaj leadership again reiterated that the term Hindu was a term of abuse and that Hindus should stop using that term. As for the website there is nothing wrong with a website updating information but on something as basic as the name of the 'ancient' martial art surely they could have got the name right the first time round. The same goes for the name for the Akharas. It doesn't do much for their credibility. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1santkhalsa Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 it gets more ancient as time goes along.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 regardless of wether or not it refers to a religion or a nationality, its usage is improper. Sikhi is universal and above all countries, or if anything the universal brotherhood of the khalsa panth. rubbish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Looks like they are achieving their goal, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akalisodhi Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 regardless of wether or not it refers to a religion or a nationality, its usage is improper. Sikhi is universal and above all countries, or if anything the universal brotherhood of the khalsa panth. rubbish I didnt get that could you please shed some more light on that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 what light is he going to spread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 let me give you guys an anlogy: Is she/it:- 1. The Queen 2. Elizabeth Regina 3. Her Britannic Majesty of GB and NI 4. Queenie 5. Old lady scrounging off British Taxpayer Its the same person but different name or title used at differing occasions, most being inter-changable!!!! All this 'intellectual' debate about Hindu, Sikh, Sanatan, Surya Bansi etc. For those of you without the brains of an archibishop, let me explain: the subject matter is the same as it was when Gurdev Nidar Singh was teaching years ago. Only the name/title has changed/can be changed. With all this arguing about the title of a book how on earth will you guys be reading/studying the contents??? Fateh and Out! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tejsingh007 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 is any one selling shastar ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 The article 'Hindu Sikh Warrior Women' shows the agenda of the writer who according to the website is Niddar Singh. The article constantly terms these women as Hindu Sikh Warrior women but the 'ancient' texts that he uses as reference refers to these women as 'Singhnia'. How's that for rewriting history! The word Hindu may at one stage been a word of abuse used by the Muslims for the idolators of India. Later most probably during the middle ages these idolators accepted that term and appropriated it. It could have been similar to how African Americans have appropriated the N word amongst themselves. So rather than just a term of abuse for idolaters, it became a term for those who were non-Muslim. With the rise of Sikhi the term again became restricted to both non-Muslims and non-Sikhs. Contrary to the pet theory of people like BA, Hindu has been a religious term rather than a geographic term at least in Northern India since the times of the Bhagats. Words can change meaning over time, our friend Jattboot who doesn't understand that his list for the Queen are all CURRENT terms and not terms which have lost their meaning over time. If to that list of the Queen he added Elizabeth of the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg Then he will realise how ridiculous his list would seem to most people as this was the royal family's line before they changed it to Windsor and is never used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Some nice pictures on the site but its not the easiest to get information from - perhaps could be designed more user friendly. In terms of Nihang Singhs and the word sanatan - its usage is very limited to say the least. At the time when Udasis were splitting apart from mainstream sikhi that was developing, some nihang singhs who had ties with udasi sampradava (throughout history their have been many nihangs who have had udasi gurdevs) supported the udasis while majority stayed largely mainstream or uninvolved. Nihang Singhs siding with udasis last century have used the word sanatan when describing their traditions. That was at the time of Singh Sabhas so the usage of the word is understandable. In terms of the word Hindu, Sikh texts such as Panth Parkash do refer to Sikhs as Hindus. Times have changed and certain phrases have taken on politically motivated meanings which is why you dont see Nihang Singhs use either Hindu or Sanatan when talking about themselves, just like they no longer are referred to as Akalis due to the political connotations the word. The usage of the phrase "Sanatan Hindu Sikh Shastarvidya" is definetly something new. Baba Gian Singh the most famous Shastarvidiya gurdev of the previous century still has students who are alive and produced writings, none of his students I have come across or his writings mention anything of the sortsof "Sanatan Hindu Sikh Shastarvidya". Although Niddar Singh is very clearly an expert in his art, it doesnt really make sense to use a term that has never been used before whem it will cause so much confusion. Nihang Singhs in India certainly are far from impressed with the new term. Suraj Bansiya is the family lineage of the Sikh Gurus the Gurus children can claim succession to. Some good videos on the site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 http://www.shastarvidiya.org/chatka3.jsp i have just been looking at this page. it says that Jarnail Singh of samprda Bhindra is a veggie fanatic. I dont fink this is true. I have never heard him saying ever anything against jhatka. can anyone confirm this ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 they were a veggie fanatic you can see that in his personal writings. It was the same for Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji and Sant GIani Mohan Singh Ji. If you believe what Niddar Singh has written about Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji eating meat until they met Sant Sundar Singh Ji well that contradicts their own writings which are still preserved to this day and signed by Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji's writings can be seen in to this day are and are held at Bhindra and with Sant Hari SIngh and Pandit Prem Singh. Sant Jarnails Singh Ji's written views on Maas are held with Ishar Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 well the sikhs are a sect of hinduism No they are not, firstly because Guru Ji said they are not Hindu, secondly because there is no such thing as 'hinduism'. http://www.shastarvidiya.org/chatka3.jsp i have just been looking at this page. it says that Jarnail Singh of samprda Bhindra is a veggie fanatic. I dont fink this is true. I have never heard him saying ever anything against jhatka. can anyone confirm this ? Niddar dislikes the Damdami Taksal and alot of his comments regarding Taksal are lies. On this topic though, I have heard Sant Ji asking Sangat not to consume alcohol, drugs, tobacco and 'mass'. Never heard anything about jhatka in particular though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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