Maha Kharag Singh Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Ive heard of Mitra Piare Nu Haal Mureeda Da Kehna but naamdhari guru, jagjit singh, alters the word of Sache Patshah Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj http://www.beantpatshah.info/index.php?opt...r&Itemid=30 see for yourself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 What bukwas! Maybe the guy thinks that Guruji also didn't have time to amend the word Mureedan to fakeeran like the explanation given for the Asa Di Var! My personal view is that the guy made a mistake and his chelay have so much sharda in him that no one dared to correct him mistake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 No offence to Naamdharis, but that is how cults and sects are formed - change the scriptures here and there and proclaim you have the right version. It happens in Islam , Christianity etc so nothing new there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Kharag Singh Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 tony veer hit the nail on the head 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Actually there are 3 different versions of this tuk in 3 different versions of Dasam Granths. All 3 are approved and we accept the Mureedan da as Gurbani as well. It is just too bad you spineless people can't see beyond your hatred. Maybe one day Hope it makes you feel better about yourselves by ignoring knowledge and insulting other faiths. "Let's just form our own uninformed and neanderthall like opinions and ignore the fact that there are people with actual knowledge who maybe able to answer the differences if we only know how to ask like civilized humanbeings." N30, how did that saying go again about giving a hat to a monkey? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybersingh Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Ive heard of Mitra Piare Nu Haal Mureeda Da Kehna but naamdhari guru, jagjit singh, alters the word of Sache Patshah Sri Satguru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj http://www.beantpatshah.info/index.php?opt...r&Itemid=30 see for yourself If I were to start in the alterations of bani no one is less than the other...............If you want to keep your self respect just maintain the relationship between you and akaal purkh.................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zion Lion Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 not only that but they have paraphrased gurbani, admin cut If one was to assess the whole naamdhari issue it becomes clear, that its one big mistake. They go making their claim to fame from suraj parkash, if they can provide one legitimate claim from Gurbani of Dasam Patshah and Aadh Sri Satguru Granth Sahib Ji which substantiates and validates their existence then ill kiss the feet of jagjit singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 pm me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zion Lion Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 if you have anything to say, say it out in the open. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 It is not me that has anything to say. It is you, who like the rest of your friends, have no requirement or interest in knowledge but all you want to do is be part of an insult-fest. Which is obviously what this is all about. In all seriousness why would a topic like this be started in the form of an insult rather than a question if it isn't just to get more people to get together and take part in the bashing? If I am not mistaken this type of behaviour is mentioned in Gurbani as 'Thuggi'. Even the question you are now raising, you (should) know very well that it has no other meaning or use other than to create a scene and all you hope for is ohers would chime in and help you in the Namdhari-bashing party, by which you will feel better about your own version of Sikhi. All I can say is "Wah! What great faith and security you have in your faith!" The point is you are raising these futile questions knowing full well that EVERY Sikh jatha and organization looks at and take meanings differently from the Gurbani of the Granth Sahibs. AKJ for their requirement of keski & sometimes rejection of Raagmala, Prof. Darshan Singh for their glorification of Adi Granth and condemnation of Dasam Granth, Budda Dal Nihangs for eating meat, some Taruna Dal Nihangs for NOT eating meat, Nirmalas for the inclusion of Hindu ideology in Sikhism, Singh Sabha for the exclusion of Hindu ideology from Sikhism & shortening Rehras Sahib. I am certain you are not unaware of the above mentioned dilemmas in the Sikh Panth, and yet you are asking this kind of question. Give me a break! Like I said if you are serious my pm is open otherwise have fun, its your life you're wasting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Lets not act like low level primates guys, Fateh Singh is born into his faith and has full belief in it, as we do in ours. I mentioned before, we should take a civilised and courteous approach when fact finding - no one is going to change anyones mind or extract info through thuggery or insults. He obviously has some interest in learning and sharing otherwise he wouldn't be here, and we are lucky to have an educated member of the Namdhari community here, so lets take full advantage of it - in a contstructive and postive way. Fateh Singh, you haven't replied to my last PM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I did. Sent again just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 The issue here is fatehsinghs pm services !! not faith not practice, It is always worth learning before insulting. Guru Nanak could have gone around smacking up people and destroying their shrines, instead he took the approach to observe the practice of others and then to bring the ras of naam into the lives of those people. He did not destroy mecca, simply spun it around when asked to move his feet, he did not drown the hindus at the ganges, simply threw water towards the punjab and explained his reasoning, neither did he eat the cannibal, or lay the smackdown on kaljug when he came to do darshan of Satguru Nanak. In the same way we should aim to model ourselves on that approach instead of turning towards aggression and insults. But would be interesting to discuss whats the difference (significance) in the use of the word maridan and fakira in this shabad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Banda Dynamic Walia, there are 3 variations of this tuk: Haal Fakira/Mureeda/Gareeba Da Kehna. All 3 are Gurbani (written by Guru Gobind Singh). Namdharis prefer to use 'Fakira' because it is the lowest of all 3 in a worldly sense but also the highest in spiritual sense. Many beautiful variations like these existed in the old Birs. A lot has been lost in the effort to 'conform and control'. Similarly there was also a Dasam Granth Sahib whose Chandi Di Vaar was written in the table of contents as 'Vaar Durga Ki' and also had no 'Waheguruji Ki Fateh' but started out straight "Ik Oangkar Sri Bhagautiji Sahai". I forgot the name of the Gurdwara where it was kept. I will try to find out and then perhaps someone can confirm if it is still preserved or replaced by a 'replica' currently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 fateh Singh Ji do you think there may be a possibility of the scribes writing these differences than Guru Ji himself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Ofcourse. There are claims that Bhai Mani Singh was the one who changed Fakira to Mureeda da because he could not call Guru Gobind Singh a Faqir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Chandi Di Vaar was written in the table of contents as 'Vaar Durga Ki' I recall Ustad DilBadshah Singh, also calling it 'Vaar Durga Ki'. he simply stated that both are one and the same incarnation of Shakti(?). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 whywould this trouble Bhain Mani Singh to call Guru ji a Fakir? Bhai Ji Gurdas was never troubled to call Guru Nanak baba Ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Perhaps because a Faqir is at a much lower political level than a Badshah? Baba usually mean father or grand father, so it probably didn't bother Bhai Gurdas too much to call Guru Nanak his father. It is not comparable to the level of humility of a Patishah calling himself a Faqir. Again I am merely agreeing that it is possible that the scribes wrote the words differently like you suggested. I do not personally know or believe for a fact that it is in fact what Bhai Mani Singh did. Just presenting both sides of the possibilities. For us all 3 are Gurbani and that is what I believe in. Whether Bhai Mani Singh edited a particular Bir when he was preparing it or not makes no difference. Always good to be mindful of the history/possibility though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think that 3 versions is probably due to scribes making a mistake rather than Bhai Mani Singh Jee doing it on purpose. I'm sure Bhai Mani Singh was aware of the mistake that Baba Ram Rai Jee made and would not want to repeat it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm sure Bhai Mani Singh was aware of the mistake that Baba Ram Rai Jee made and would not want to repeat it. Too right, Mithar. where are the 3 different versions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 If I remember correctly in Gurblias Patshahi 10 the word fakir is used in place mureed. So the issue is clearly a long standing one and there are historical references for both term. A discussion of sources and validity would certain be interestinig and beneficial to all, particuarly if the discussion was void of attacks and insults against the faith of others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 so is Gurbilas Patshahi 10 gurbani? MDS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I think the issue is more of sect or cult formation than variations of Gurbani. If the mainstream take one stance then the sect has to take another solely to create a number of differences that can then be used to distinguish between 'us' and 'them' A variation of Gurbani is an oxymoron. If differences exist then they are the result of scribes or people with a vested interest in distorting Gurbani. Jaisi mai aavai Khasam ki Bani taisra kari gian vai Lalo (Tilang M1) So having variations of a particular verse is nonsense. If the namdhari leader is a Guru and has the light of Guru Nanak then surely he would know what the correct word is and propagate it. Ofcourse. There are claims that Bhai Mani Singh was the one who changed Fakira to Mureeda da because he could not call Guru Gobind Singh a Faqir. Highly unlikely given the example of Ram Rai. Also it doesn't make sense that if Bhai Mani Singh did not want to refer to Guru Gobind Singh as Faqir then how about the gareeban example, was Bhai Mani Singh (or another Sikh) ok with referring to the Guru as Gareeban? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I was reading a book by Pyara Singh Padam in which he also mentions that in many puraatan Dasam Granth sroops, the word Fakiraan is used instead of Muridaan. So Namdharis do have some credibility for their claim as well. Personally I'll go with Muridaan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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