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Is anyone else fed up will all the BS on the forum lately? It used to be nice signing in and see just a few posts which were often worth reading and very interesting. You could take out a little bit of time give everything a read and even reply where applicable. Now theres always loads of new posts and it seems like the same people are flooding this forum with Kala Afghana related BS - Same BS theory different thread. I understand the admins desire to maintain neutrality etc, but this forum is seriously losing its quality. sign in and see the same people have posed in every topic so dont even bother reading it. Ban those will kala afghana views and let this forum flourish withr sampradai and other spiritually enriching perspectives. Thats my humble opinion, whats everyone else saying?

This forum has always provided a niche environment for people of similar paths of inquiry to present and discuss a diverse range of issue offering insightful perspectives. Its getting really boring now.

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I agree with you MDS.

But its difficult to sit by and watch people insult our father...

The truth is, that there is not even a need to refer to Gurbani in most cases with these Afghana pet monkeys, because their own words are nearly always contradictory. It looks like a well planned and concerted group effort to me.

Like I said in another thread, we are seeing banned people allowed back, with a 2nd chance. I don't have a problem with this, but one should only get a 2nd chance when they have made amends for their mistake (reason for being banned).

This way we will keep getting a seasonal cycle of naastik acid rain until the end of days...

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Yep.

It's rather difficult to actually learn things new about Sikhi when people here are constantly arguing with people who question every basic and fundamental thing about Sikhi, and use the same weak, rehashed arguments again and again and again and again.

Regards,

K.

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I agree with you. This forum is losing its spiritual touch. We all have the same core beliefs even though we may have some minor differences of opinion on some things. We all encourage each other to do more meditation, do kirtan, do Paath, listen to Katha about spiritual topics. But Kala Afghanists question our most sacred beliefs about every topic of Sikhi. This is really discouraging. Although some here would like to entertain them here by debating with them. I know from personal experience that you cannot convince these people. Best thing is just to keep away from them just focus on your own spiritual jeevan.

When Bhasourias were powerful, they were much larger than these Kala Afghanists can even imagine to be. But now no one even knows who they, they are finished. Same thing will happen to these Kala Afghanists. At least Teja Singh Bhasour was a man of some principles and high moral character even though he had some manmat beliefs, but Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana is a man with a track record of pedophilia, and these people have no shame in following such a man. What more can be said of a philosophy which is founded by such a man. May Vaheguru give these people some Bibek Budh.

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I agree with you MDS.

But its difficult to sit by and watch people insult our father...

The truth is, that there is not even a need to refer to Gurbani in most cases with these Afghana pet monkeys, because their own words are nearly always contradictory. It looks like a well planned and concerted group effort to me.

Like I said in another thread, we are seeing banned people allowed back, with a 2nd chance. I don't have a problem with this, but one should only get a 2nd chance when they have made amends for their mistake (reason for being banned).

This way we will keep getting a seasonal cycle of naastik acid rain until the end of days...

ਏਕੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਏਕਸ ਕੇ ਹਮ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਗੁਰ ਹਾਈ ॥

ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਹਉ ਦਾਸੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ ਤੁਮ੍‍ਰੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰਉ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ॥੧॥

ਤੂੰ ਸਾਝਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਬਾਪੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਭਗਤੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਸੈ ਤੇਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ॥ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਵੁਠਾ ॥ ਸਭੇ ਸਾਝੀਵਾਲ ਸਦਾਇਨਿ ਤੂੰ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥

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5 Singhs have agreed - Neo i think u should ban the Kala Afghanas.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Singh, but you'd better wait until another Singh agrees since I am a Satanist*, a Follower of Demons** and a Persecutor of Prophets***. :LOL: Or you could count Valli Singh twice given the fact that he does as much seva as 2 Gursikhs.

Regards,

K.

*Allegedly, **apparently, ***so-called.

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ਏਕੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਏਕਸ ਕੇ ਹਮ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਗੁਰ ਹਾਈ ॥

ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਜੀਅ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਹਉ ਦਾਸੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ ਤੁਮ੍‍ਰੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਕਰਉ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ॥੧॥

ਤੂੰ ਸਾਝਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਬਾਪੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਅਖੁਟ ਭੰਡਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਅਘਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਭਗਤੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਆਸੈ ਤੇਰੀ ਬੈਠਾ ॥ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਵੁਠਾ ॥ ਸਭੇ ਸਾਝੀਵਾਲ ਸਦਾਇਨਿ ਤੂੰ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥

We have problem with kala afghana not only over Dasam bani. Kala afghanis interpretation of gurmat is contradictory to established sikh traditions.

They do not believe in Naam simran, karmas, reincarnation, Gurmantra etc. These are the piallars of sikhi. So there can never be agreement with this atheist group.

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We have problem with kala afghana not only over Dasam bani. Kala afghanis interpretation of gurmat is contradictory to established sikh traditions.

They do not believe in Naam simran, karmas, reincarnation, Gurmantra etc. These are the piallars of sikhi. So there can never be agreement with this atheist group.

Please forward the above mentioned complain about above concepts to kala afganis. Thanks! I am a Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Sikh.

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I understand what everyone is saying. I was just trying to do what previous nirmale did, they held an debate with arya samaji/rss type people instead of getting carried away emotionally and at the end- tat khalsa gurmat sidhant shined right through, all these arya samajis/rss type people bow in front of sri guru granth sahib ji after the debate.

Shutting people off via ban or other means is very easy solution to tackle bhausaria mindset, but it does not destroy the root, more you suppress more flourish bhausaria panthis will be, the only solution is respond back to them, also compile a book even if it takes months answer all their sansa, put them on internet so youths who are newly wed into sikh don't get brainwashed by bhausarias.

I assure you guys, if it any given time sevadars feel this is getting out of hand. We will contain all these debates under moderation. Forum Quality is still main priority.

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my friend i am sorry to say, forum quality has gone to rat shit!

What i suggest is open 3- 5 threads such as;

Questions on the Dasam Granth, Questions on Bhai Gurdas Dian Vaaran, Questions on ......

that way those who have doubts should place their question in number order and someone who has the knowledge will answer it. That question is not to be asked again only further questions should be posted. Once a question is answered that should be the end of the debate.

While joginder Singh Vadenti was the Akal Takhat Jathedar he and the jathedars issued a statement that no debates were to go on about the authenticity of the dasam granth. Due to this many teekas were not printed but cyberspace seems to be away from everything and we have this issue here which quite rightly needs to be addressed although this looks like a planned attack on the roots of sampardaic Sikhi but a nomer of co ordinated members on this forum who have appeared as if out of thin air over the last week or two

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While joginder Singh Vadenti was the Akal Takhat Jathedar he and the jathedars issued a statement that no debates were to go on about the authenticity of the dasam granth. Due to this many teekas were not printed but cyberspace seems to be away from everything and we have this issue here which quite rightly needs to be addressed although this looks like a planned attack on the roots of sampardaic Sikhi but a nomer of co ordinated members on this forum who have appeared as if out of thin air over the last week or two

I agree with you. This does seem very much like a planned attack by the Kala Afghanists.

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Easy to call others kala afganis but you will get mad pissed if I call you guys mahant narainus.

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard....

Neo, the main problem is that once people's questions are answered, instead of responding to the answers, they ignore them, pretend they haven't been answered, and continue spamming questions. Perhaps very very strictly preventing such cheap tactics would bring up forum quality. And confining them to certain threads so they can't spam everywhere as Kam suggested.

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That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard....

Neo, the main problem is that once people's questions are answered, instead of responding to the answers, they ignore them, pretend they haven't been answered, and continue spamming questions. Perhaps very very strictly preventing such cheap tactics would bring up forum quality. And confining them to certain threads so they can't spam everywhere as Kam suggested.

Where haven't the answers been given? What is your response that hasn't been replied back to? Plus, I can't be in 10 threads at once. I have a life and have other things to do too. Like I said before, hold a proper debate on tv or something and we will see who has answers and who doesn't. If you are going to call me kala afganist or whateever because I am against dasam granth just like him, then I will call you mahant narainus because you guys are derawaadis like him. No answer other than saying kala afganist, kala afgnist, isn't that spam?

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Oh dear, tantrums! Here this may help: http://www.dbpeds.org/articles/detail.cfm?TextID=16

"I have a life and have other things to do too."

Stop picking on him everyone, he has a life, and also other things to do on top of that life, like drive his tractor.

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Oh dear, tantrums! Here this may help: http://www.dbpeds.org/articles/detail.cfm?TextID=16

"I have a life and have other things to do too."

Stop picking on him everyone, he has a life, and also other things to do on top of that life, like drive his tractor.

Sure! Why not?

Mod's edit: Stop instigating a debate on every thread, there is special thread made on charitars, use that thread to discuss it. Again as we said on the other thread, this is your last warning, if you failed to comply with the forum rules, you be put under moderation for quality control.

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To bann someone is the easy route out, to hold a intellectual debate allows people to discuss ideas and search for the truth, thats only if the people involved are in it for the search of truth!!

If Fauj is banned, he will still retain his beliefs and continue to just spread them somewhere else, maybe where his audience will not be able to respond like the people on this forum have. The only problem is, Fauj decides to pick and choose which replies to respond to, and constantly jumps ship from one topic to another, dancing around the subject.

Questioning your beliefs is not a bad thing, if anything it strengthens them and makes the readers more attuned to the surrounding knowledge. To get to the bottom of this is if Fauj actually puts his beliefs down and then going around those beliefs to proove him wrong. If he believes in Guru Granth Sahib, use the philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib and any other scriptures which he believes to be authentic to discuss back. From what Ive read on this forum, Fauj has the following beliefs:

1 - Believes only what is written in Guru Granth Sahib

2 - Akaal Purakh is only ever masculine

3 - Does not believe MahaKaal is Akaal in any shape or form

4 - Akaal never takes a physical form or has no form

5 - Prof Sahib Singh Steek is incorrect and has mistakes so cannot be taken as right (Please confirm which Steek you believe is accurate)

5 - Please add any other beliefs

Can Fauj clear up what parts of Sri Dasam Granth to you believe are penned by Guru Gobind Singh, or you consider as authentic Bani. What parts of Bhai Gurdas do you consider as authentic? From here the readers can find out exactly where they and you stand, it saves you wasting time doing lyrical gymnastics.

Akaal!

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To bann someone is the easy route out, to hold a intellectual debate allows people to discuss ideas and search for the truth, thats only if the people involved are in it for the search of truth!!

If Fauj is banned, he will still retain his beliefs and continue to just spread them somewhere else, maybe where his audience will not be able to respond like the people on this forum have. The only problem is, Fauj decides to pick and choose which replies to respond to, and constantly jumps ship from one topic to another, dancing around the subject.

Questioning your beliefs is not a bad thing, if anything it strengthens them and makes the readers more attuned to the surrounding knowledge. To get to the bottom of this is if Fauj actually puts his beliefs down and then going around those beliefs to proove him wrong. If he believes in Guru Granth Sahib, use the philosophy of Guru Granth Sahib and any other scriptures which he believes to be authentic to discuss back. From what Ive read on this forum, Fauj has the following beliefs:

1 - Believes only what is written in Guru Granth Sahib

2 - Akaal Purakh is only ever masculine

3 - Does not believe MahaKaal is Akaal in any shape or form

4 - Akaal never takes a physical form or has no form

5 - Prof Sahib Singh Steek is incorrect and has mistakes so cannot be taken as right (Please confirm which Steek you believe is accurate)

5 - Please add any other beliefs

Can Fauj clear up what parts of Sri Dasam Granth to you believe are penned by Guru Gobind Singh, or you consider as authentic Bani. What parts of Bhai Gurdas do you consider as authentic? From here the readers can find out exactly where they and you stand, it saves you wasting time doing lyrical gymnastics.

Akaal!

Totally agree with maha singh there.

Here is what we have done for khalsa fauji and for the forum quality. So both benefit from it:

After going through his post carefully and offensive remarks he used against sri dasam granth (thanks to singh2 for pointing it out). We have decided too put him under moderation for quality purposes until he improve his post, does not go -off-topics despite of dedicated threads for specific topics, until he starts posting full quotes from scriptures ie- full charitars instead of taking one or two line and taking cheap shots at them, until he stops making bold statements against compositions.

If he feels that somebody attacked his character personally, he should use a report function of this forum instead of retaliate back. We do acknowledge that there are some personal insults made towards him by other members, will edit them and action them accordingly. We asked others to show full restrain since he is been put under moderation.

Once all these recommendations are met then we will take him off from moderation. Normal turn around time to approve moderated message is 24 hrs as sevadars of this website have social life and families/job, if messages does not get approved within 24 hrs. He is urged to sent us a pm. We will action those posts as soon as possible.

Also just a reminder to everyone, please discuss the message/mindset not the messenger to avoid personal attacks.

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Here is one of his posts on another thread:

My opinion: Anything falling outside the boundaries of Guru Granth Sahib ji isn't Gurbani. Doesn't matter if it states who it is printed by or how ink is to be prepared or even quote such as Jit Dar Lakh Mohammadaa, Lakhaa Bissan Mahesh.

Thanks for the clarification on your stand. So you are saying Jaap Sahib is not bani than either?

Do you at least accept that there are important elements of Sikhi contained in writings outside the SGGS such as in Dasam Granth, Bhai Gurdass ji's Vaars, Bhai Nand Lal ji's writings, and in the rahitnamas?? If so, which writings do you accept in whole, which in part only, and which do you reject entirely?

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