Matheen Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I recently signed up to Facebook and joined the Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidya group. I tried posting this there but it gets deleted: Can anyone from the akhara confirm or deny that the bs on the discussion boards is taught to the students? Things like "Kesh is only for 'Khalsa Sikhs' (whoever they are?)", the existance of 'Muslim Sikhs' who maintain Islamic practices; etc. Apparently anything goes in 'Sanatan Sikhi' - Hukam? nah mate, do what you want innit. lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I recently signed up to Facebook and joined the Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidya group. I tried posting this there but it gets deleted: Can anyone from the akhara confirm or deny that the bs on the discussion boards is taught to the students? Things like "Kesh is only for 'Khalsa Sikhs' (whoever they are?)", the existance of 'Muslim Sikhs' who maintain Islamic practices; etc. Apparently anything goes in 'Sanatan Sikhi' - Hukam? nah mate, do what you want innit. lol. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Can you cut and paste anything "odd" that you find on the forums here? I'm not on facebook, nor do I desire to join that den of iniquity in order to read the confused ramblings of adolescents. Ta, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 When they refer to 'muslim-sikhs' do they mean sultani-sikhs or are they trying to introduce another group in the same vein as 'hindu-sikhs'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 If you refer to the board, the person posting "Param Singh Sikhi" stated himself that he has not attended Niddar Singhs classes nor does he go to him to learn Shastarvidiya. On a side note, if people are not Khalsa Singhs ie not taken Khanda Di Paul, are we to expect that they must keep kesh? If so, how do you even expect to enforce that upon anyone? No Monay in Gurdwaras? Bann Monay from donating money to Gurdwara Golaks? Stop Monay from reading Gurbani? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 drugs, alcohol, swords, meat, maybe a bond fire and these Sanatan Sikhs got themselves a party. Rock on guys keep waiting for a war with swords. I believe guns are the new weapons of choice, but it's only 2009, so let's wait till guns come in automatics. Seriously, One of the comments made by this Sukha fellow was alcohol is used to losen up. Now doesn't Gurbani relax the mind. Well Guru Sahib tells us it does. I think these guys are spending too much time on playing knights on drugs and forgetting about the main goal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Maha Singh Ji how would Guru Gobind Singh Ji answer this question? chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Muslim Sikh = muslim follower of the Guru eg: Bhai Mardana, Painde Khan, Dara Shikoh etc. Khalsa Sikh = Amritdari follower of the Guru eg: 'do you really need an example?' Where is the problem?? Or am I missing something?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Muslim Sikh = muslim follower of the Guru eg: Bhai Mardana, Painde Khan, Dara Shikoh etc. Khalsa Sikh = Amritdari follower of the Guru eg: 'do you really need an example?' Where is the problem?? Or am I missing something?? Bhai mardana, was a Muslim,lol. How does one stay a Muslim, what requirements do you need to meet to be a Muslim? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Only five, of course Bhai Mardana was a Muslim, as were all his kul, inc those that survive him to this day, as were most Rababis and Dhadhis of our Gurus darbar. There is a difference between Sikh and Singh, the latter is a always the former, but vice versa is not always the case (looking at todays demographics, its hardly the case). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Only five, of course Bhai Mardana was a Muslim, as were all his kul, inc those that survive him to this day, as were most Rababis and Dhadhis of our Gurus darbar. There is a difference between Sikh and Singh, the latter is a always the former, but vice versa is not always the case (looking at todays demographics, its hardly the case). Singh, you say Muslim and I ask on what bases was Bhai Mardana a Muslim. Can you define Muslim, Sikh and Singh for us here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I think the janam sakhi's say that Bhai Mardana ji wanted to go to Mecca because this is what they do in his religion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Bhai Mardana was a Nanak Shahi, if you define a Sikh meaning what it really is called which is a Student. Then Bhai Mardana a Muslim is a Student (Sikh) of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. The Hindustani followers were known as Nanak Panthi or Students (Sikhs) of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Being a Singh-Khalsa involved following a warriors code, this is why Singhs wear the 5 Ks. Edited October 2, 2009 by Mystical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Maha Singh: thanks, I missed the bit where he says he doesn't go the akhara, although it seems strange that his views are left on but others are deleted. Mystical, there has always been initiation of sikhs in Eastern dharm. In Sikhi, first there was Charan Amrit then there was Khande Da Pahul. Would a Muslim be allowed to be initiated by a non-Muslim and would they remain a Muslim afterwards? The only writing we have by Bhai Mardana Ji is his Salok in Guru Sahib. Do Muslims believe in Kaljig? Read his Salok...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) The concept of Kaljug is understood in more than one way in Gurbani. Edited October 3, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 In the Ginans of the Ismaili shias in India there are many refferences to the yugas. see ismaili.net 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Mystical, there has always been initiation of sikhs in Eastern dharm. In Sikhi, first there was Charan Amrit then there was Khande Da Pahul. Would a Muslim be allowed to be initiated by a non-Muslim and would they remain a Muslim afterwards? If Bhai Mardana was a Sikh of Guru Nanak it must say that he might have been initiated to become a Sikh of Guru Nanak. Bhai Mardana still practiced his Islamic Dharam. Im not Muslim myself but I do like to read from Muslim and Hindu Scriptures because mystically they are similarities between the two but the laws are different. So I would think it would be up to the Muslim if they wanted to have a non-Muslim Guru. Take Kabir for another example, he was brought up in a Muslim family. Kabir was taken in by Swami Ramanand who was a non-Muslim Guru. Edited October 3, 2009 by Mystical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 This discussion is going no where. First you must define Muslim and Sikh and Singh. Then on those defintions, we can see where those who call Bhai Mardana are coming from. We have Guru Nanak Dev ji telling Muslims to become trueMuslims. That's another term they have to define. So Mystical and/or sheediyan have to give the definintion of Muslim and Sikh first. Then this discussion can move forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 how would Bhai Mardana being a muslim reconcile his Islamic "kill that kafir", with being the learner of a kafir Guru? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) how would Bhai Mardana being a muslim reconcile his Islamic "kill that kafir", with being the learner of a kafir Guru? They were loads of Muslims who called Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Kafir. If Bhai Mardana had that "Kill that Kafir" mentally he wouldnt be hanging around him. Bhai Mardana expected Guru Nanak Dev Jis teachings because Bhai Mardana probilby understood them in a more Islamic way, where as the Hindus they understood his teachings in a more Hindu way. If you see the word Sikh in a more traditional way i.e Disciple, then it should be even clearer. Its like going to a school. Say a Muslim and a Hindu go to the same school and they are learning about Philosophy off a teacher who is say Christian. But in order to learn from the teacher you have to become his pupil. Both are going to see their teachers Philosophy in the way the pupil has been brought up but they are both his students. So: Muslim: One who submits. Sikh: Disciple, Student, Learner. Singh: Tiger or Lion. One who has taken Khande Da Pahul. Edited October 3, 2009 by Mystical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 If Bhai Mardana had that "Kill that Kafir" mentally he wouldnt be hanging around him. Bhai Mardana expected Guru Nanak Dev Jis teachings because Bhai Mardana probilby understood them in a more Islamic way, where as the Hindus they understood his teachings in a more Hindu way. If you see the word Sikh in a more traditional way i.e Disciple, then it should be even clearer. Its like going to a school. Say a Muslim and a Hindu go to the same school and they are learning about Philosophy off a teacher who is say Christian. But in order to learn from the teacher you have to become his pupil. Both are going to see their teachers Philosophy is the way the pupil has been brought up but they are both his students. So: Muslim: One who submits. Sikh: Disciple, Student, Learner. Singh: Tiger. One who has taken Khande Da Pahul. Based on these definitions then you Mystical are a Muslim. These definitions are so broad that everyone in this world is a Sikh and Muslim all at once. So if you want this dicussion to anywhere then define Sikh and Muslim as they are defined by the teachers of the Dharma. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 If you define the word Sikh as simply student then you come to the ridiculous conclusion that everyone who is studying at schools, colleges and universities are Sikhs and the teachers and lectures are Gurus! The writers of the Janamsakhi and the early Sikhs didn't understand the word Sikh to be simply a follower of any Guru but as the followers of the Gurus, starting from Guru Nanak. It's amusing how those with a sanatanist mindset have to stretch the meaning of the word Sikh to defend their ridiculous theories. I see where Only Five is coming from and he is right. If you want to throw around oxymoron terms like Muslim Sikh then you have to define what is a Muslim and then what is a Sikh and then define whether the term Muslim Sikh compliments these definitions. Rather than bend and twist or stretch each accepted definition in order to justify the term Muslim Sikh, why admit that there can be no such thing as a Muslim Sikh. Did Bhai Mardana fast at Ramadan, if he did then he is outside the definition of a Sikh because Gurbani teaches that fasting is an empty ritual and tortures the body. If Bhai Mardana didn't fast then he was not a Muslim. Sometimes things can be that black and white. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Based on these definitions then you Mystical are a Muslim. These definitions are so broad that everyone in this world is a Sikh and Muslim all at once. So if you want this dicussion to anywhere then define Sikh and Muslim as they are defined by the teachers of the Dharma. Haha. The definitions I gave were the literal meanings. Ok heres the more Social-Order version. Muslim: One who submits to Allah and Mohammad is the last messenger. Sikh: Disciple who believes in the teachings of the 10 Gurus. Singh: Tiger. One who has taken Khande Da Pahul. Edited October 3, 2009 by Mystical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only five Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Haha. The definitions I gave were the literal meanings. Ok heres the more Social-Order version. Muslim: One who submits to Allah and Mohammad is the last messenger. Sikh: Disciple who believes in the teachings of the 10 Gurus. Singh: Tiger. One who has taken Khande Da Pahul. Are you sure these are the definition you want to go with. Because the definition of Sikh and Muslim are completely against each other already. So there goes the theory Bhai Mardana is a Muslim-Sikh. And if Bhai Mardana was a Muslim then, when Guru Nanak Dev ji slepted with his feet toward the Kabba he would have been the one kicking Guru Sahib. bhai Mardana would be the first to walk off on Guru Nanak Dev ji when he said I am not a Muslim or Hindu. Guru Nanak Dev ji openly said Muslim practices are wrong and yet Bhai Mardana, the so called "Muslim" spent his whole life with Guru Sahib. The meaning you gave were the ones that best suited your agenda. There was no truth that existed in those definition, instead they were full of deception to mislead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Read Sri Guru Granth Sahib for a definition of Muslim, then compare against Bhai Mardana. Many Muslims accept 'Baba Nanak Shah' as their Pir, so why would have Bhai Mardana had a problem? What pray was Bulleh Shah, who had such immense respect for Guru Sahiban? He called Guru Tegh Bahadur a 'Ghazi'... the true meanings of words used by spiritual beings is beyond the 'black and white brigades' comprehension. Read up on Bhai Mardanas kul, and tell me where they became Singhs. Chatanga, did Baba Farid Ji or Rumi Sahib have a kill the Kafir mentallity, I am suprised at your silly comment. Tony, was Prehlad a Sikh of Guru Nanak? You people are stuck in your little hamster wheel - trying to continue to divide and categorise the whole world based on your biased and box logic. Edited October 3, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=11885&pid=105115&st=0&#entry105115 Here, lets throw another brick into the anti-Islamic machine that is building up here, a beautiful 'Muslim' tribute to Nauvain Patshah - Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji. Lets now turn this into another conspiracy thread! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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