The Nihang - A Secret History - Coming Soon...

[shaheediyan]

[dalsingh101]

That was so cool. I'm aching to see the full documentary now. Any ideas when it will be released?

Edited November 5, 2009 by dalsingh101

[Matheen]

Hope it focuses on more than jhatka and sukha. Everyone wants to try these, but how many know of the immense Nitnem these singhs keep. Also noticed a few dodgy translations - panth = tribe?! and in one case the Singh was saying something completely different to the translation.

[dalsingh101]

Have to say:

Given that they claim to be dedicated to physical training as well as prayer, some of them seem a bit 'plump round the edges' for this. I always thought regular exercise mostly leads to lean muscular body types? How comes our people have disproportionate rates of pot belly? I was walking down a main road in Upton Park (a very brown area) last week and you couldn't help but notice that many of the sianay sardars going past were well flabby. It was a norm almost. When you looked at their counterparts in the sullah community, not one of them looked like this. Is this a genetic thing or just dumb dietry and exercise habits?

[chatanga1]

was that Baba Santa Singh Ji talking early intha prog? if so, then how long ago was this film made?

and didnt a nihang singh shoot a goat? can anyone explain this?

[Kaljug]

Have to say:

Given that they claim to be dedicated to physical training as well as prayer, some of them seem a bit 'plump round the edges' for this. I always thought regular exercise mostly leads to lean muscular body types? How comes our people have disproportionate rates of pot belly? I was walking down a main road in Upton Park (a very brown area) last week and you couldn't help but notice that many of the sianay sardars going past were well flabby. It was a norm almost. When you looked at their counterparts in the sullah community, not one of them looked like this. Is this a genetic thing or just dumb dietry and exercise habits?

For the most part, it's diet (and maybe some genetics). A lot of apnay in the UK eat way too much fat and carbs and not enough protein. They also eat like they still do farmwork for 12 hours a day and fight wars on their days off.

K.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Kaljug

[Kaljug]

was that Baba Santa Singh Ji talking early intha prog? if so, then how long ago was this film made?

and didnt a nihang singh shoot a goat? can anyone explain this?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Yes, that was Baba Santa Singh, though I'm not sure when the film was made.

Chatka extends to an animal being killed with one shot or one arrow also. Animals that are hunted are killed this way. Bit unusual to see a goat being shot though.

K.

[bhooliya]

He needs to work on his "Sub-Titles" though. Nihang singh is saying " Kira Maaye da putt" and "Sub-Title" uses "Biatch". This is very bad mistake. I would say that if he ( whoever is producing this documentry) doesn't understand simple Punjabi then he/she should seek someone's help. Yes! there are very high spirit Nihang Singhs but this is also one of the bitter truth that Nihang goons and addicts also exist.

Note: I used wrong spellings to by-pass the admin cut.

Edited November 8, 2009 by bhooliya

[dalsingh101]

"Kira Maaye da putt" should be translated as:

"Which son of a mother"

[GillAUS]

This looks like a classic in the making. Really looking forward to it.

Will have to agree with the above posts re. the translations - I was a little flabbergasted to see it translated using that word! lol

Nevertheless, lets hope this doco steps up and finally shows the world what Nihang Singhs are all about.

[ds123]

maaee dha puth was translated wrong

[singh2]

Nihung singhs are true sikhs of guru who were the backbone of sikhs when panth was struggling for survival. They made immense sacrifices for sikh panth and are singhs of charhdi kala.

[tonyhp32]

Nihung singhs are true sikhs of guru who were the backbone of sikhs when panth was struggling for survival. They made immense sacrifices for sikh panth and are singhs of charhdi kala.

So who are the 'fake' Sikhs of the Guru? All the Non-Nihang Sikhs? Please restrain your over zealousness and get some perspective.

Edited November 9, 2009 by tonyhp32

[shaheediyan]

Tony, I think he means 'true' in terms of representing puratan traditions i.e. satkaar and paat of Dasam Bani, Chalda Vaheer, immense seva, tyar bar tyar etc etc. This does not mean individuals from the mainstream do not have these gun, we are simply talking of a 'group culture'.

Please, no need for a derogatory reply.

[chatanga1]

when did sikhs or singhs become known as nihang singhs? formally.

[tonyhp32]

My issue is about people who post unsubstantiated statements as if they are fact. Your explanation just worsens the earlier subjective statement. If Nihangs are Sikhs who are 'true' to in your words in representing puratan traditions satkaar and paat of Dasam Bani, Chalda Vaheer, immense seva, tyar bar tyar then that implies that non-Nihangs Sikhs ie 99.99999% of Sikhs are not true to these traditions. There is no evidence that the Nihang lifestyle represents the ideal Khalsa lifestyle as envisoned by Guru Gobind Singh and not just a lifestyle that was forced upon the Khalsa during the 60 odd years of Mughal and Afghan persecution. If I am wrong here then all the Amritdharis on the board as well as all the others outside of India should either leave and join the Nihang Dals or start Nihang Dals in their respective countries. You can't call yourself Chalda Vaheer just because you drive down to the local Tesco for your shopping. You will need to trade your car in for a horse and I don't think the car scrappage scheme covers that one at the moment! I recall you created a class of 'normal' Sikhs ie those who were Amritdhari but were not Nihangs but there is no evidence for such a division, either the Nihangs are the original Khalsa and their outdated lifestyle is the true Khalsa lifestyle or it isnt. You can't have it both ways. I would remind you that the vast majority of Sikhs left the Nihang lifestyle when the Khalsa defeated the Mughal and Afghans and these Sikhs still had a living memory of Guru Gobind Singh.

[shaheediyan]

Tony,

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

You obviously can't respect that fact that Nihangs are unique in the traditions they have preserved, same as the Namdharis, Rababis, Dhadhis, Nirmalai and the Sevapanthis etc.

The majority of the mainstream 99.99% or whatever random figure you choose to use, does not even know about the rvaaj the above Sikh groups have preserved, let alone applauding them for doing so.

No one says 'mainstream' Sikhs are useless or don't have Dasam Patshahs gun, kindly stop sensationalising.

You attitude is a perfect example of the concept of 'Asuyaa'.

[dalsingh101]

I think Tony's point is valid Shaheediyan.

I have the most respect for the historical information that has been saved by nihung "dals", I do believe they are potentially a repository of information that may help us understand our past better.

That being said, they do not resemble the original Khalsa/Nihungs who WERE at the forefront of Sikh military action and the defenders of concepts such as sarbat Khalsa, Sikh equality and an independent sovereignity. Somewhere down the line, they became a symbolic entity. I suspect the 2nd Anglo-Sikh war played a large part in that. They are not like the nihungs of the past for a number of reasons but mainly (in my opinion) due to their political stance and level of military preparedness in a modern context.

Realistically speaking the Sikh regiments in the Indian army could be argued as the true inheritors of the Khalsa legacy, simply because they are essentially "tyaar baar" for a real jung, even if Sikh sovereignity has been severely compromised.

This is in no way a slur on nihungs of today incase anyone tries to take it that way. But to highlight my point through a juxtaposition of old and new, I would say that the forerunners of todays nihungs would have been eyeing up Lahore and the NWFP with the current events there and possibly planning to get involved to the quom's benefit. Instead they not outward looking anymore and act as people to remind us of the past. Besides if we compare the old rivals (nihungs versus jihadis of Afghani areas), we can see how one has retained their military reputation and ability today and one hasn't. That's that truth.

Edited November 10, 2009 by dalsingh101

[shaheediyan]

I wasn't talking about 'fighting'.

[dalsingh101]

Of all the people in the quom, if nihungs can't really fight other dals and faujan, what can we expect from the rest of the Sikhs? I thought that was their raison d'etre?

Edited November 10, 2009 by dalsingh101

[Laadli Fauj]

I think back in the day, nihangs were a "valid" army, because they were much needed by the populace as protection from oppressive rulers. Today however, there are 'stable' 'democratic' governments in place, so people look to those more for protection and whatnot. As a result, nihangsingh way of life has been 'endangered' if you will, so they struggle today as a separate entity, protecting their own way of life more than anything (not saying that nihangs are not part of the panth, thats ridiculous, or that nihang singhs are helpless in terms of protecting the populace, but that that it is simply harder to do that. fauj does it where they can tho.) . However, that doesn't mean that the Dal is an obsolete or invalid fighting force. No doubt we'd be able to hold our own as a modern guerilla force if it came to that

Edited November 10, 2009 by Laadli Fauj

[dalsingh101]

Okay, but we will only ever know about today's nihungs true battle effectiveness if they ever get involved in an ongoing conflict (not saying this is something they should aim for!)

One thing they should be doing is adopting some modern practices such as regular weight training and cardio exercises. Studying other quoms military strategies would also be helpful if they want to position themselves as a fauj. I mean, how many of them are actually aware of what is happening not far away in Afghanistan or say Peshawar? I mean this in terms of tactics being employed.

Laadli, I think you got it right in that they may be inward looking now as their role has been curtailed significantly by political realities on the ground. So they are more concerned about preserving their maryada than being a real force in the modern context.

I don't agree however that the lack of modern experience is not a factor effecting their prowess though. That is like saying tajurba in using Ak-47s and RPGs gives a fauj no advantage over one that doesn't have this.

Edited November 11, 2009 by dalsingh101

[singh2]

Dal khalsa were Nihungs. Nawab kapur singh is an example of that.If someone says that nihungs did not fight against Moghals or british he has an agenda here. I suggest to them go and search British india library archives especially illustrated London news of 1846 that mentions extensively about Nihungs contributioin to sikh army. I have a couple of collections of this newspaper.

[tonyhp32]

Laadli Fauj,

I disagree as your point fails in that the Nihang Dals had the perfect opportunity in 1984 to protect the common Sikhs and failed miserably. One can spin the events of 1984 and find an odd Nihang here and there joining the movement but any objective observer would have to admit that the Nihang role in 1984 and after was a fiasco. If the Nihangs had lived up to their claim to being the defenders of the Sikhs then there would have been no need for any other Jathebandis like Dal Khalsa, Babbar Khalsa or Khalistan Liberation Force and others. The fact that those who wanted to fight the oppressive government after Bluestar joined Kharkoo Jathebandis and not any of the Nihang Dals prove that the Nihang Dals had lost their right to be called protectors of the Sikhs. I don't want to keep on bringing up 1984 each time the Nihangs are discussed but 1984 was a watershed year for Sikhs and apart from a few kids in the West who go all ga ga whenever something about Nihangs is mentioned and who have romantic notions about the Nihang lifestyle there isn't much credibility amongst common Sikhs when it comes to Nihangs.

Dalsingh101

If I was totally blunt here then rather than a a standing army of the Panth the Nihangs are more like one of those military re-enactment societies one gets in the west and probably asking Nihangs to defend the common people today is a bit like the USA drafting a Civil War re-enactment society straight into Iraq or Afghanistan!

Singh2

Once again unsubstantiated statements. No one is saying that Nihangs did not fight with the Sikh army so there is no need to bolster your unsubstantiated statement about Dal Khalsa being Nihangs by bringing up another fact that no one has disputed.

[dalsingh101]

Tony....

"Judh sachiyan soniyaan vey, barha dukh lagaya, barha dukh lagaya"

lol

Anyway guys, you know that trailer starts of with a quote from Steinbach. The video creator seems to have purposefully altered/misquoted the text to include reference to cannabis and a threat of extermination. You can see Steinbach's original text here from the 2nd edition of his work. Steinbach worked for M. Ranjit Singh for a while but left disgruntled. I hope the guy who is making the video is not a bull5hit merchant......

Anyone email him?

Edited November 11, 2009 by dalsingh101