chatanga1 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Then what about all of the people who end up working with them in professional environments? What's a Singh supposed to do? Avoid them? why avoid them? they carry plague? i had a gay driving student once. Nothing to it. But they still seem okay with them at weddings or other celebrations? its not that they are ok with, its just something thats accepted if it happens. i have seen and got a little frightened by 2 khusre when they cme to my cousins house. they also were dancing and got my dad involved, in it, against his will of course, but everyone had a good laugh. They had 5000 rupees off us, my mom gave it as this is the only way they eat. Why not when the myth that their blessing bring goodness then definately they are accepted on occassion when their is happiness in the family. Baba Trilok Singh Khiale wale says about Khusre, that they are already suffering from karam of past lives for which they have been born khusre, how can they bring good luck to anyone? They cannot bring bad luck to anyone either. Their threats of curses are nothing more than the average beggar in india. They are just there to get money to survive. Nothing else. we may have been one in a past life, or maybe will be one in a future life. Edited February 10, 2011 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Plus calling omenology a science is complete rubbish. http://www.searchgur.../pauri/8/line/ Also Gurbani says a Gurmukh is exceedingly rare maybe one in a billion can be a Gurmukh. Omens have been consulted since babylonian times maybe even before. A Gurmukh does not need this knowledge of omens because he is above maya and does not ask for anything from the world. A Gurmukh is a Siddha which means all his desires are continiously fulfilled and to go near him means your desires will be fulfilled. But for average people knowledge of omens can be useful in daily life. Think of the other appliances you have in your house that are useful in your daily life - washing machine dishwasher etc. - these machines were probably made at great cost to the environment and made through suffering of others. Why dont you reject these technologies that make your life easier. Whereas the technology of Omens you are willing to reject even though it does no harm to anyone. But as with all psychological sciences intuition plays a large role, so dishonest people can manipulate it. If you wish to understand why and how Omens work C G Jung the great psychologist wrote an essay called Synchronicity - an A-CAUSAL connecting principle which explains the psychic principle behind Omens. As Gurbani says all is One -- Psychic and material is the same they affect each other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 They are just there to get money to survive. Nothing else. Yes but the tradition is age old.unlike beggars you don't find them coming at sad ceremonies like shraadh.Only when you are in happy times they come and take money 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Plus calling omenology a science is complete rubbish. http://www.searchgur.../pauri/8/line/ Also Gurbani says a Gurmukh is exceedingly rare maybe one in a billion can be a Gurmukh. Omens have been consulted since babylonian times maybe even before. A Gurmukh does not need this knowledge of omens because he is above maya and does not ask for anything from the world. A Gurmukh is a Siddha which means all his desires are continiously fulfilled and to go near him means your desires will be fulfilled. But for average people knowledge of omens can be useful in daily life. Think of the other appliances you have in your house that are useful in your daily life - washing machine dishwasher etc. - these machines were probably made at great cost to the environment and made through suffering of others. Why dont you reject these technologies that make your life easier. Whereas the technology of Omens you are willing to reject even though it does no harm to anyone. But as with all psychological sciences intuition plays a large role, so dishonest people can manipulate it. If you wish to understand why and how Omens work C G Jung the great psychologist wrote an essay called Synchronicity - an A-CAUSAL connecting principle which explains the psychic principle behind Omens. As Gurbani says all is One -- Psychic and material is the same they affect each other. That's just elaborate whattaboutery from yourself. Bhai Gurdas's vaar on the subject unequivocally points at Sikhs paying no heed to these things. Unless I read it wrong? Whilst you on the other hand as espousing the opposite position. Whom should we believe? I'm not saying that there isn't possibly any effect from certain influences of the planets, I'm just trying to make the point that from purely a Sikh theological perspective, from what I can see, we seem to have been instructed to give these things a miss. Personally speaking, having witnessed all sorts of weird and wonderful 'behams' from apnay (especially the bibian!), I'm happy with that (being prevented from leaving the house just because you sneezed or when the clock is at 'a quarter to' are some of my favorites). We could do with more plain grounded commonsense in the panth - not less of it mate. Giving the astrologers a miss, doesn't mean that your own spirituality has to suffer. I'm sure getting stuck into all that type of stuff has its own consequences anyway. Anyway we digress, but I hope the point that desis have their own strange relationships with hijray, khusray, gandoos etc. has been made, seeing as certain brothers were going on like this stuff was above them and only an issue in the west. So let's refocus the original topic: Can a guy be a Sikh and a practising homo? One thing I caution against is people jumping in with the kind of conviction that suggests they have personally heard what the Sikh position in all this is from dasmesh pita himself. This goes to both sides of the debate. What I would say is that, undoubtedly it has been going on in the panth already, but undercover. Maybe the real question to focus on will be "What will be the wider effects of more and more people from Sikh backgrounds openly admitting their homosexuality be on the panth?" In the west will we eventually face a homo couple trying to take an institute like a Gurdwara to court for refusing to marry them for instance? Will we get renegade 'liberal' Gurdwaras that will perform an Anand Karaj for a gay couple. I think this has already happened with the 3HO lot? Edited February 10, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 religious institutions are not required to marry gay persons in canada, probably same deal in the US. I have seen a picture of gay sikhs marching in a gay pride parade before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Sikhs lived under islamic law for centuries they would have been executed by mughals themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 For instance totally black animals are known as unlucky (due it being Shani Ji's/Saturns colour) so if you see a black cat when you for instance start out to the bank for a loan this could be an omen of misfortune that you will not get a loan. Shani Dev is seen as the devta for Justice and punishment, why do people see his colour as being unlucky? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Because Shani Ji dishes out justice in retribution for our negative or bad actions. So from a personal point of view we would rather do wrong actions and not pay for them. When the chickens come home to roost than the person feels he is unlucky. Shani Ji has no mercy unlike Guru Ji who can forgive all sins, I am sure people are familiar with the Bhagat who done bhagti for 12 years sitting on a rock, when God became happy and asked him what he wanted the Bhagat said Justice. So God said OK then, now the rock will sit on your head for 12 years. This is what Shani Ji is like. So because everyone wants to be happy and have good family relations and good friendships and a happy married life, they are scared of Shani, because no-one really deserves these things they are only given to us through the Mercy of God and not from his Justice. Mercy and Justice are the two pans on the balance of the world. Shani Ji exerts a subtle influence on the mind, which is how he gets his work done. He is the reason why Ravana became destroyed. Narada Muni once came into Ravans Darbar and saw the 7 planets lying face down in his darbar, He suggested to Ravan to turn their faces upwards so they could witness Ravans glory. When Shani Ji's gaze fell on Ravan, they say his mind became perverted,which is why he went after Sita as ravan was well educated and a scholar Shani Ji destroyed Ravans discrimination with his gaze. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 There is a program called Shani Dev on Sky 831 on saturday mornings, i watch it most weeks, but Shani is not seen as being feared, but loved. He is shown and dharamic and kind. Or is this worship being done out of fear? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I think they must be scared of Him, they must have heard the story of Vikramaditya the ancient King of Ujjain, who spoke slightingly of Shani Ji, saying he was useless negative fellow always doing bad things to good people. Unfortunately Shani heard him and as punishment made him lose his kingdom, become an outcaste chumar dog-eater and then to top it off had his arms and legs chopped off and then his eyes put out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) According to this site, it is possible lol http://www.singhsabh...al.blogspot.com These Sant trends recently of not marrying and being celibate like Christian Priests have led to the rise in being Gay at certain Deras and even abuse of Children. This is true though, this seems to happen so there are gay happenings, but is it Homo or is it more like what happens in prisons, where this stuff is seen as dominant males as opposed to sexuality. I think it happebns due to lack of contact with females. Interestingly, I used to go to uni sikh societies, and one of the quite well known Singhs from West London, who sometimes dresses like a Nihang but seems a little confused of who he follows (but I am confused because he is always preaching against meat and against culture and hates hindus) always used to say gay stuff about people, like encouraging gay tendencies between 2 Singhs in front of him; and also seemed a little jealous/envious when he saw me with girls... hmm just a thought... ... I have sometimes come in contact with these people because of universities, but I have always stayed on the edge of contact as I live in a gora area. Edited February 3, 2012 by londondajatt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipledgeblue Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So it means two feminists have anand karaj even if they are not naturally homo then it become acceptable,similarly two prison inmates marry and start indulging homosexual activity then it also become acceptable according to Sikh culture? BTW On this site members give importance to puratan sources .Is there any puratan source that these type of marriages happened in Sikhs? Anand Karaj is done for grihast dharam, between same gender grihast dharam is impossible, is it not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 This is true though, this seems to happen so there are gay happenings, but is it Homo or is it more like what happens in prisons, where this stuff is seen as dominant males as opposed to sexuality. I think it happebns due to lack of contact with females. Its called the Harem Effect. Whereby sex segregation occurs (prisons, religious orders, military, boarding schools) over a period of time. Those males or females start exhibiting homosexual tendancies and start having sexual relations with others of the same sex. But once they rejoin others of the opposite sex they revert to hetrosexuality. It is simply so that they can satisfy base carnal desires. I read an article by a German academic about this stuff with the Panjabi fauji community in Germany. Because they cannot mix in with the wider society (inc females) they start shagging each other out of neccesity. Sleeping two plus to a bed doesn't help either. When they return back home they become 'normal' hetro guys. I'm sure it was posted on this forum. The term comes from the lesbianism that was practiced by women in the harems of the Ottoman Empire. because they didn't come into contact with any men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) ਬ੍ਰਿਧ ਨਿਰਾਜ ਕਹਾਤੁ ਮੋ ਛੰਦ ॥ ब्रिध निराज कहातु मो छंद ॥ BRIDH NARAJ KAHATU MO STANZA ਅਕ੍ਰਿੱਤ ਕ੍ਰਿੱਤ ਕਾਰਨੋ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨਿੱਤ ਹੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਤਿਆਗ ਧਰਮਣੋ ॥ ਤ੍ਰੀਅੰ ਕੁਨਾਰਿ ਸਾਧ ਜੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ अक्रि्त क्रि्त कारनो अनि्त नि्त होहिंगे ॥ तिआग धरमणो ॥ त्रीअं कुनारि साध जोहिंगे ॥ Forbidden works will always be performed; the saints abandoning the path of dharma, will look for the path of prostitutes; ਪਵਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰਤੰ ਬਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਧੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਭਾਵਣੋ ਸੁ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਸੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥੨੬॥ पवि्त्र चि्त्र चि्त्रतं बचि्त्र मित्र धोहिंगे ॥ अमि्त्र मि्त्र भावणो सु मि्त्र अमि्त्र सोहिंगे ॥२६॥ The friendship of a queer type will wash and destroy the sanctity of friendship; the friends and enemies will go together for their self-interest.26. Page 1139, Line 7 Dasam Granth Edited March 10, 2012 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The soul or atma doesn't have a gender, class, creed, colour, race, etc. This being "gay", "Lesbian", "Straight", are all worldly things, etc, and have existed since the creation of the world, etc. What is important, is can a person whoes sexual orientation is different from what is considered to be the "norm" in society, attain Salvation or Mukhti, become Jeevan Mukht. Will Waheguru not give that person Darshan, if that person does everything with love and devotion, as per Gurbani?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.