Last Post

[CdnSikhGirl]

This will be my last post on this forum. I have come to the realization that why there are no other Singhnis who post on this Forum is the blatent misogyny run rampant among the youth on here and the appalling excuses as to why their Mothers, Sisters, Auntys, Wives and Daughters should just shut up and accept being in a subordinate position to Singhs. It's obvious this Forum is pretty much run by Damdami Taksal et al, and those youth who unquestioningly follow everything they say, especially when it pertains to the thought of ever giving Singhnis equal status.

You guys obviously have a boys club here and its too bad because this forum over the others actually gets into the deeper meanings in Gurbani and spiritual pursuits more.

But I just can't stay among a group who think less of me, or turn their noses down at me for simply being born female.

I have stood my ground and shown in Gurbani itself that male and female are equal, and furthermore are only transitory forms we currently use and do not mean anything. None of the rebuttals used Gurbani to support their points... rather it came down to 'culture' and 'tradition'.

I would ask yourselves though, why so many Sikh girls are leaving Sikhi, or only going to the Gurdwara as a social event, or even worse, marrying outside Sikhi. You know, Singhnis have in their power to destroy Sikhi in only a few generations if you alienate them and treat them as second class Sikhs. They will (and are already) going elsewhere. And you wont be able to stop it. None of you better ever speak out about Sikh girls leaving the religion... because most don't ever feel like they can take it seriously when the Singhs are all trying to boss them around and tell them what they can and cant do. So if they choose to leave, you have no right to speak out against it because YOU are the problem.

N30 please delete my account as I can not figure out how to do it.

[dalsingh101]

The forum is made up of individuals Satkiran.

No one mindset dominates.

Bringing western feminism into the Sikh world was always doomed.

Edited May 3, 2015 by dalsingh101

[Koi]

It's a genuine shame that you have been annoyed to such an extent that you wish to leave this forum, because you did provide fresh insight from a Singhni point of view on a myriad of issues. But, if this is your decision........

Wish you well, all the best

[Guest]

We do have singhani voice on this forum, we have singhani who is moderator...there is another singhani who is more into meditation in meditation forum there are singhani who are guest members who browse this forum regular basis. I am myself supporter equal rights of sikh women and have done research, fought back against misogynist comments, compiled sikh women unsung saints. We have had ex singhani on this forum name- harjas kaur she took everyone for a ride on a chandi-tigress showed her jalal (shakti) to everyone on here , which everyone bow down to lol..hell she had crazy rebellious debating powers, we didn't discourage her posting at all as we believe in equality. She would have been perfect singhani representation but it was shame she went too snatanaish for tisra khalsa panth. So i seriously encourage penji to hang around don't let one or two posters put you off.

[Singh123456777]

Benji don't go... It's always good to hear another persons view..

[Harjots8963]

Satkirin.... I will say it again. MEN and WOMEN are COMPLETELY EQUAL in sikhi!

Its perfectly fine if you don't agree with one jatha or another..

Sikhs still have love for each other!!

You should stay and check out other topics!

Also Maybe Start Visiting
www.SikhSangat.com

[Guest]

For upliftment and empowerment to sikh woman. Here is thread below dedicated to great sikh woman scholars/saints.

[CdnSikhGirl]

But what I want to find out... directly... what is the place of women in Sikhi. Some say equal to men. Some say equal but with some restrictions that men don't have. And others (liek Paapiman) quote the Gurmat Rehet Maryada which states that women are to be subservient, servile, obedient to men while men are in authority over them. (in Gurmat Rehet Maryada it not only states that tuk which is taken to mean women are to view men as God - which is different than the meaning of the shabad in context - but the Gurmat Rehet Maryada goes further and actually defines their meaning of that tuk by stating outright that a Singh is to view 'his' Singhni as a faithful follower - subordinate - while she is to view him as Parmeshwar (god) - Authority over, Superior) So the fact that it's actually even defined as to the meaning, concerns me. The fact that it was also pointed out that not only DDT but Also Nihangs etc view women in the same way, is this how women were saupposed to be seen right from the start? Is Truth Seeker right when he pointed out that all of this statement of women being equal in Sikhi just lip service, when in practice it's just like every other religion, putting women in an inferior position to men, under men's full authority, and justifying it by saying it's God's will. If this is the truth... if this is how it was meant to be in Sikhi, then yes it most definitely affects whether or not I will be able to continue following this faith. I have been told on here by so many that Sikh Rehet Maryada is not authentic etc. and that if I am Sikh I should follow Gurmat Rehet Maryada... but if I do, I denigrate myself to being inferior to my brothers, father, uncles, sons and must resolve to be servile and obedient to them my whole life. If I took Amrit and was bound to GRM, I would have to abide by that. And I don't think I can. But if I follow SRM, I will always be called fake, or not authentic etc.

The more I read on here, the more angry I become... not only about the situation with multiple Rehet Maryadas, but wondering if I have been hoodwinked into thinking Sikhi treats women as equals when really it does not. It puts them into inferior status and subordinate to Sikh men. I know some of you say that DDT in India is different than DDT in North America, and that women are not treated badly by DDT in India. But thje fact still remains, it's actually instructed in the Gurmat Rehet Maryada for women to be servile and subordinate to men. So is this how it's supposed to be? Are my choices either to take Amrit from somewhere that goes by SRM and always be called fake or not authentic, or take Amrit from DDT etc al, and put myself into a position where I will have to always be obedient and servile, subordinate to men... in other words my own voice would never be heard, and I would have to always blindly do what I am told. If those are my two options I am not sure what to do.

No wonder so many young Sikh girls are leaving... if their only options are to take a second class position to Sikh men, or be called Fake or un-authentic if they follow SRM... then no wonder so many young Sikh girls have lost interest and are leaving and marrying outside of Sikhi. Sikhi has so many gems with regards to the spiritual aspect, but the social practice, if DDT / Nihangs etc are the 'authentic' Sikhi, then the social practice of Sikhi is unfair, and very degrading to Sikh women. Even if it's not strictly followed by most DDT / Nihangs etc. and they treat their wives good, the fact remians that its written in Gurmat Rehet Maryada, the exact position that women are to take compared to men, and if Amrit is taken and GRM is the Rehet Maryada that she is bound to by Panj Pyaras, she MUST follow it, and be servile and obedient no matter what because its written in clear instruction in Gurmat Rehet Maryada.

I have no doubts that has directly contributed to female infanticide (even though its prohobitied), blessings upon birth of sons, condolences on birth of girls, women being beaten by husbands who think they have full authority over their wives, or murdered by husband / in laws (yes it has happened I have read numerous cases both in North America and India among Sikhs), women's voices not being taken seriously, the husband always getting their way while the wife has to always defer her own hopes and dreams to wait hand and foot on his. And yes I have seen this too... Not in most Sikh families here, because they all follow SRM here... but then, many of you consider these Sikhs to be fake or un-authentic and would chew their head off on here if they were post that they follow SRM.

So you can see this is a moral dilema for me. If SRM is unauthentic, fake etc. And the only 'true' rehet maryada is the one DDT Nihangs etc follow, then it makes me hate my gender. It makes me feel like I am being punished by being born female. It makes me want to just rip off this body I am in, because it's somehow defective or broken or dirty. It's making me actually abhor this physical body I am in because inside I don't 'feel' inferior to men... I don't 'feel' like I am a subordinate, I don't 'feel' like I should I be servile to men or be obedient because I feel like inside I am the same as them. My soul is the same as them and right now it's crying out.

This is why I think I should leave this forum. The more I read, the more members are trying to get to agree with their GRM and the more angry and frustrated I get that I was born in this body.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[Sat1176]

Satkiran,

Personally speaking if I were in your shoes I would be more concerned about what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says about who or where is God.

har santahu daykhhu nadar kar nikat vasai bharpoor.
O Saints, see clearly that the Lord is near at hand; He is pervading everywhere.

Ang 68

parabh nikat vasai sabhnaa ghat antar gurmukh virlai jaataa.
God is close at hand; He dwells deep within the hearts of all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, know Him.

165

aisaa mayraa raam rahi-aa bharpoor.
Such is my Lord, who is all-pervading everywhere.

nikat vasai naahee har door. ||1|| rahaa-o.
He dwells near at hand - the Lord is not far away. ||1||Pause||

Har aapay sabad surat dhun aapay.
The Lord Himself is the Word of the Shabad. He Himself is the awareness, attuned to its music.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Sat1176

[CdnSikhGirl]

^ Though I agree and know that God is permeating and within everyone and everything, it unfortunately does not help with this dilema.

[sukrit kaur]

I'm too a sikh girl,nd been using this forum.Personally I've never thought about such kinda things like which jatha or taksal is dominating here or what's the personal views of anyone towards any jatha.I feel heartly disappointed,when I read such things.I mean What is jatha?? When one says he/she is a sikh ,then no question arises towards what jatha or taksal he /she is motivated.Once,I read a thread in this forum ,where I read some critical attacks on particular Jathas.I was deeply disappointed.I at once closed the thread,and yes there were tears in my eyes,that how could a sikh can attack other sikh's principles.From that day,I decided to never look on such threads.Yes,I 've never looked or popped in any thread beside Meditation threads.In general discussion ,sometime I just read the headings of threads.But I must say that Meditation threads are really spiritually uplifting and one gets answers of many questions he is looking for.People posting their are really gurmukh's.So I suggest you to not leave the forum.I'm not using any forum other than this one ,cause I think we shouldnt waste our time on forums.Just stay here and keep popping in meditation forum.I've read ur posts, and I must say that you're a spiritual soul.so,sikhi is not all about jathas or such kinda things.Sikhi is a straight path to meet our purkh irrespective of our worldy stature.

Beside,here is no difference between men or women.Who can better understand about power of a woman beside a sikh?

Hope you find your way.

God bless!

Gur fateh!

[Koi]

For upliftment and empowerment to sikh woman. Here is thread below dedicated to great sikh woman scholars/saints.

^this

[SikhKhoj]

Satkirin, leaving or not is in your hands but doubting Sikhi because of one individuals narrow minded approach to Sikhi is wrong.

DDT is not mainstream Sikhi, I have proved beyond doubt that their chiefs were simple men who taught what they had learnt or read without analyzing it and even made some silly claims such as HIndu gods coming to give us kakkaars and what not.

I hope you continue your journey on the path of Sikhi, remember read everyones point of view, be it DDT AKJ Nihangs Nirmalas Udasis or Missionaries but make up your own mind by comparing their 'rehats' with Guru Granth Sahibs Bani. Gurbani is clear on female equality and Sikh history is full of examples, don't know what else you need to make up your mind on the position of women in Sikhi.

[paapiman]

DDT is not mainstream Sikhi, I have proved beyond doubt that their chiefs were simple men who taught what they had learnt or read without analyzing it and even made some silly claims such as HIndu gods coming to give us kakkaars and what not.

A person (Srimaan 108 Sant Gyani Sundar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindrawale) who can do more than 20 arths of a Gurbani tuk, might be a simple man to you, but not to me. In addition to that, they(DDT jathedars) inspired hundred of thousands of people to take amrit and changed their lives.

How can people have you inspired? Just self-reflect.

You cannot deny that kakkars existed before the creation of Khalsa. Kachera was a sign of celibacy, even before 1699.

Anyways, this is off-topic.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[SikhKhoj]

Even fools knows kirpan/kachehras/etc existed before Gurus, why would Gurbachan Singh need to link Hanuman and Kahchera? That is a clear cut reference to Daya Singh Rehat which says Hanuman GAVE kachehra to Khalsa, Chandi gave kes and what not. Just like he copied Bansawlinama in his katha about Muhammad.

Hitler inspired thousands of nazis too, does that make him a great man? Not comparing hitler and gurbachan or sunder singh but showing your logical fallacies.

Edited May 6, 2015 by SikhKhoj

[paapiman]

Even fools knows kirpan/kachehras/etc existed before Gurus, why would Gurbachan Singh need to link Hanuman and Kahchera? That is a clear cut reference to Daya Singh Rehat which says Hanuman GAVE kachehra to Khalsa, Chandi gave kes and what not. Just like he copied Bansawlinama in his katha about Muhammad.

Tell me, in which culture, other than Hindu, was Kachera seen as a symbol of celibacy? Mahapurakh mentioned the fact that Sri Hanumaan jee was given Kachera by Sri Ram Chandar jee. You cannot deny it.

Hitler inspired thousands of nazis too, does that make him a great man? Not comparing hitler and gurbachan or sunder singh but showing your logical fallacies.

That was very disappointing, coming from a Sikh. Comparing amrit dee daat to racist demons.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited May 6, 2015 by paapiman

[amazing]

This will be my last post on this forum. I have come to the realization that why there are no other Singhnis who post on this Forum is the blatent misogyny run rampant among the youth on here and the appalling excuses as to why their Mothers, Sisters, Auntys, Wives and Daughters should just shut up and accept being in a subordinate position to Singhs. It's obvious this Forum is pretty much run by Damdami Taksal et al, and those youth who unquestioningly follow everything they say, especially when it pertains to the thought of ever giving Singhnis equal status.

You guys obviously have a boys club here and its too bad because this forum over the others actually gets into the deeper meanings in Gurbani and spiritual pursuits more.

But I just can't stay among a group who think less of me, or turn their noses down at me for simply being born female.

I have stood my ground and shown in Gurbani itself that male and female are equal, and furthermore are only transitory forms we currently use and do not mean anything. None of the rebuttals used Gurbani to support their points... rather it came down to 'culture' and 'tradition'.

I would ask yourselves though, why so many Sikh girls are leaving Sikhi, or only going to the Gurdwara as a social event, or even worse, marrying outside Sikhi. You know, Singhnis have in their power to destroy Sikhi in only a few generations if you alienate them and treat them as second class Sikhs. They will (and are already) going elsewhere. And you wont be able to stop it. None of you better ever speak out about Sikh girls leaving the religion... because most don't ever feel like they can take it seriously when the Singhs are all trying to boss them around and tell them what they can and cant do. So if they choose to leave, you have no right to speak out against it because YOU are the problem.

N30 please delete my account as I can not figure out how to do it.

Whose fault is it that sikh women get treated as second class members of the panth? It is your own fault for letting them treat you this way. You need to grow up and see what is going on around you and tackle it to the best of your ability and not run away and hide behind your white turban. Stop moaning and get on with your life.

Moreover, if you happen to encounter any sikh/singh trying to treat you like shite then shout at him and tell him where to go. It is not against the law to shout or behave this way at a man in any country. There are too many hypocrites in this religion just like any other religion so there is no need to be all soft and gentle when it comes to dealing with those that irritate you. There is no NO NEED TO BE POLITE AND BEAT ABOUT THE BUSH REGARDING HOW YOU GET TREATED^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sikhs, both men and women are known for being extremely aggressive people; why can't the women sort their men out then? Why waste your time at bitching about useless issues when you have a major problem facing you everyday. You mention sikh girls exiting the sikh panth can you blame them? Perhaps they too have given up. Let me assure you giving up is not going to resolve this problem.

You really need to learn shastar vidya. Look at all the gurdwara pradhaans that draw out their kirpans at the slightest hint of annoyance. They really deserve gold medals for upholding sikhism in the 21st century. They will win any competition involving violence.

Edited May 6, 2015 by amazing

[Guest]

I agree with amazing. Satkiran penji why don't you have social networking female movement to fight against overall against global male misogyny/chauvinism

These woman in india have never given up ..

[amazing]

I'm too a sikh girl,nd been using this forum.Personally I've never thought about such kinda things like which jatha or taksal is dominating here or what's the personal views of anyone towards any jatha.I feel heartly disappointed,when I read such things.I mean What is jatha?? When one says he/she is a sikh ,then no question arises towards what jatha or taksal he /she is motivated.Once,I read a thread in this forum ,where I read some critical attacks on particular Jathas.I was deeply disappointed.I at once closed the thread,and yes there were tears in my eyes,that how could a sikh can attack other sikh's principles.From that day,I decided to never look on such threads.Yes,I 've never looked or popped in any thread beside Meditation threads.In general discussion ,sometime I just read the headings of threads.But I must say that Meditation threads are really spiritually uplifting and one gets answers of many questions he is looking for.People posting their are really gurmukh's.So I suggest you to not leave the forum.I'm not using any forum other than this one ,cause I think we shouldnt waste our time on forums.Just stay here and keep popping in meditation forum.I've read ur posts, and I must say that you're a spiritual soul.so,sikhi is not all about jathas or such kinda things.Sikhi is a straight path to meet our purkh irrespective of our worldy stature.

Beside,here is no difference between men or women.Who can better understand about power of a woman beside a sikh?

Hope you find your way.

God bless!

Gur fateh!

satkirin_kaur has raised some very important issues which need to be dealt with within the sikh janta. Sikhism is not only reciting and quoting banis. It also teaches us to fight against injustice and unfair treatment of individuals.

[Guest]

Here is jullian gillard EX australia pm grills australia pm now abbot on misogyny - You go woman..!!!!!!! Kali - chandi unleash :D

[sukrit kaur]

satkirin_kaur has raised some very important issues which need to be dealt with within the sikh janta. Sikhism is not only reciting and quoting banis. It also teaches us to fight against injustice and unfair treatment of individuals.

Yes,you're right!.But in my view ,Spirituality is the main reason for a sikh to live by.Yes,one sikh must always be ready to fight against injustice,but question is are you wise enough to understand the meaning of Injustice? Fighting for injustice or just biasing over a useless topic to claim this is right or this is wrong,are totally two different aspects.

and I think here satkiran ji needs to change her view.How can one do justice over choice of jathas or taksals and about their views on particular matters like so called this misogyny.The topic ends over one line,that both organisations are totally sikh supporters and abide the teachings of guru granth sahib ji,so obviously it's clear.SGGS ji gives equal status to women like men,so I dont think that one needs to debate more.

Infact Guru sahib has always instructed us to focus on our kamai rather than to waste/corrupt our time,buddhi on such wordly majhabi discussions.

Please dont take me wrong.That's just my opinion.

Edited May 6, 2015 by sukrit kaur

[amazing]

I agree with amazing. Satkiran penji why don't you have social networking female movement to fight against overall against global male misogyny/chauvinism

These woman in india have never given up ..

I don't think the sikh women have to start any movement global or otherwise to be treated and counted as equals to men. The great sikh gurus have already accorded this equal status to the sikh women. Starting from 'so kyon manda akhiyeh..........' to the creation of Khalsa by the 10th guru. Who do the sikh men think they are to disobey the gurus? They are definitely not superior to the gurus to disobey their instructions. The sikh men need to grow up and follow the teachings of sikhism rather than behave like ignorant fools. How can they expect other nationalities to show respect to their turbans and kirpans when they don't have any regard for the teachings of sikhism?

In sikhism men and women are equal, so there is no need for anyone to fight for their rights, if the men don't get it they are plain stupid. Sikh women are equal to men starting with turbans on their heads to kacherras on their waists. If they were not both equal then why would guru ji make it mandatory for both men and women to carry the sri sahib jis and wear a turbans and cotton kacherra which is sewn exactly the same way for both men and women? It is ridiculous to be so disobedient to the the sikh gurus and sikhism.

Sikh men need to wake up and face the teachings of the gurus. Disobedience to these wonderful teachings can only mean they are hypocrites and not real SIKHS.

Edited May 6, 2015 by amazing

[amazing]

Yes,you're right!.But in my view ,Spirituality is the main reason for a sikh to live by.Yes,one sikh must always be ready to fight against injustice,but question is are you wise enough to understand the meaning of Injustice? Fighting for injustice or just biasing over a useless topic to claim this is right or this is wrong,are totally two different aspects.

and I think here satkiran ji needs to change her view.How can one do justice over choice of jathas or taksals and about their views on particular matters like so called this misogyny.The topic ends over one line,that both organisations are totally sikh supporters and abide the teachings of guru granth sahib ji,so obviously it's clear.SGGS ji gives equal status to women like men,so I dont think that one needs to debate more.

Infact Guru sahib has always instructed us to focus on our kamai rather than to waste/corrupt our time,buddhi on such wordly majhabi discussions.

Please dont take me wrong.That's just my opinion.

**

[chatanga1]

This will be my last post on this forum.

why are you still here?

[CdnSikhGirl]

satkirin_kaur has raised some very important issues which need to be dealt with within the sikh janta. Sikhism is not only reciting and quoting banis. It also teaches us to fight against injustice and unfair treatment of individuals.

^ This is why