This is shocking.... what has sikhi came to?

[SAadmin]

taken from: http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=17764&t=17764

waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.

dear dasam granth ji,

You can STOP WAITING.....no one is going to make any comments....WHY ?? Because as bhen Ji jasvir has already pointed out THESE SANTS/Brahmginais/Jathedars/Sadhs...are ALL SAME Birds of a FEATHER....the MAFIA that controls gullible Sikhs. How can you expoect them to say anything about their own ??? They are just feeling "sorry" one of them has been "caught" with HIS CHOLA UP...and kachhha DOWN.

Hear the DEAFENING SILENCE from the Akal takhat about the Rapist SGPC member Baldev Singh ??? Another such BABA JI was completely EXONERATED by Akal tkahat just a few months ago BUT he is IN JAIL after being convicted in OPEN COURT.

AAAVa OOT GIYA...Koi Hario Boot rahio REE ??? Is there any green tree left in this JUNGLE FIRE !!!!

Furthermore this BEDI character is busy trying to make himself up as GURU NANAKS (DNA) Successor...blood relative... and there are stupid gullible sikhs who give credence to thsi blood-relation dna stuff when GURU NANAK JI HIMSELF REJECTED HIS TWO USELESS SONS while on this EARTH ( in other words we are saying we know better than GURU JI )

BURN ALL SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS/JATHEDARS.......as GURU GOBIND SINGH JI BURNED ALL MASANDS.

One such super stupid sant/brahmgiani was heard telling the sangat on Guru Arjun sahib jee's shaeedee diwas....Guur Arjun Ji was so POWERFUL that he made the Hot IRON Cold as ICE on the Nortth Pole, and the ROOM was FREEZING COLD....the hot sand on his head was like SNOW FLAKES...

What a disgusting way to "DESTROY" the mahan shaheedee of Guru Ji and take it into the realm of magic/harry potterism.../lord of the rings stuff.. Listen to any such sant singing DHAARNA two liners and you will realise how stupid they all are.

Dassree manajeet kaur MALAYSIA

oh my gosh... i cant beleive someone will go to that level.....feeel sowwie for her karma :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

And even suprised the moderators of that site allowed it .. like they feel some sort of sensatation spewing this hate against guroo maharaj bhagats. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[giani_g]

Reminds me of the kind of stuff that poets like Blake would have said about the establishment (the government, the Church and the monarchy) back in his time.

I think she has made a valid point, if no one stands up (I know it was only a forum) then who's keep these people in check. Though burning MAY be a bit too extreme.

I think she's only mad because he's supposed to represent us and thats the image he put forward to the public on our behalf. Does anyone from the midlands remember that granthi who smuggled drugs into Leicester prison?

By the way I'm not critiscising "sants" nor do I support them.

[samosasingh]

This is that wacko Manjeet K.Gyani. She has some very extremist views along the lines of Jarnail S. Arshi Gyani. From there writings it seems they have a big ego, like most Singh Sabhia's. They need eveything in black and white. They cannot see a third color. They have Sikhi in a box, and cannot see outside the box. Such a shame I has such s hopes for these guys.

[shindasingh]

hahahaha these guys are jokes..

I guess they would be the first in line to burn Sant Baba Attar Singh Ji, Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Baba Ishar Singh Singh Ji, Sant Baba Teja Singh Ji, Sant Baba Jwala Singh Ji, , Sant Baba Sundar Singh Ji, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Baba Kartaar Singh Ji ......................

Heck knowing these guys if they where hindu's from back in the day, they'd prob be the ones screaming that Guru Sahib was a Kafir and a fraud.

But oh well, what can ya do but read your bani and crack a smile at em...

[Guest]

This is the thing people are always ganna do some stupid tricks to fool others.

People think that DNA is ganna bring back Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Naam is beyond DNA and Guru Ji had Naam in his Mind all the time, how is DNA ganna copy that?

[Singing_Silence (Kaur)]

She's a maniac, what else do you expect on taliban.org?

[HeyDudesWassup]

taliban.org lol, sorry that was a good one.

Very extremist views in that particular post, they do have a few cool posters there though.

[Singh47]

You guys are reading it all out of context. I just finished reading that entire thread on the Tapaban site. When manjeet Kaur gyani said the following words:

“BURN ALL SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS/JATHEDARS.......as GURU GOBIND SINGH JI BURNED ALL MASANDS.â€

You have to read what she means in the context she is writing it in, and not make the mistake of interpreting it literally. That entire thread is dedicated to Nakli Sants like Maan Singh, who although have the word ‘Sant’ attached to their names, but also abuse their power by sexually exploiting the Sangat who trusts them, by getting richer from the money donated by the sangat. The followers(chelas) of Maan Singh like other Sant followers all claim that their Sant is a “Mahapurkhâ€, “Brahmgiani†a real big time “Shiromani Santâ€. It is these nakli SANTS/BRAHMGIANIS/JATHEDARS that Manjeet Kaur Giani says to burn.

[Guest]

Singh47,

Please stop defending her. Its pretty clear what she meant.

Also If you think..we took her post outta the context then..then please tell her to use better words to describe her rage against nakli sants in disguise.

In my view,

She let her rage out against all the sant/mahapursh...if you trace her post and follow her patterns..you will know what i m talking about.

[Singh47]

N30 Singh, you have taken her comments out of context. Read the entire thread then think about what she wrote. Please think with a little bit of sense by clearing your mind of hate for anyone who doesn’t support the concept of a “Santâ€. I have read her posts by using the search engine on the Tapoban forum, and quite frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with her views. If anything, they make sense. They are the views of today’s frustrated average Sikh who is seeing the Sikh Quam being exploited by the Sant Samaj. Sure there are a few hand full of Sants here and there who are real saintly souls, but the vast majority of the ones who have “Sant†attached to their names are Sants in name only. Quite frankly, I don’t see what wrong if such nakli sants do get burned. If anything, Dharti Te Bhoj Halka ho jaoo gaa.

[singhni4eva]

Welcome to the world of 'sikh' forums!

The expression pot calling the kettle black came to mind when I first read N30 Singh's post. Seems like only a few months ago some guy here was getting away with calling for the death of the SGPC heretics! N30 called the SGPC heretics a few days ago I seem to recall

Some forums are pro-SGPC, some Pro-AKJ and some pro-Sanatan seems like none is pro-SIKHI !

[Narsingha]

pro-Sanatan forums?

Damn...where????

[Guest]

Some forums are pro-SGPC, some Pro-AKJ and some pro-Sanatan seems like none is pro-SIKHI !

Biba let me tell you.

If you telling me this forum is not PRO-SIKHI then i think you should really go over the posts in this forum.

We promote Gurmat Sangeet Maryada, Shastar Vidiya, reading of puratan texts like- suraj parkash granth, naveen prakash, panth parkash granth... We promote meditation, naam simran techniques (oh some of you think its a sin, hai hai i need to take amrit again because i told the secrets of meditations.....hai hai let me call my panj pyareiz) We promote the actual puratan sant culture.... We do have vichar buddhi just because sikhi got few bad fake sants "Does not Mean" they are all bad...We try to give them respect they deserve (even though its not possible but we atleast try)...

See- Shinda's beautiful post:

Heck knowing these guys if they where hindu's from back in the day, they'd prob be the ones screaming that Guru Sahib was a Kafir and a fraud.

We don't take sides here.. you will see lot of posts here where budda dal, hazoor sahib maryada, udasi, nirmalie been questioned... so before you call this as pro-sanatan forum...please look around.. go through archive , sikh samparda, formal debate section first before labelling this forum as pro-sanatan...they were questioned then what makes akj and another man-made organizations get away with questions??...people here are curious.. nothing wrong with constructive debates..!

We got moderators from all different jatha's..heck we got a moderator who doesnt have a dharma....still a beautiful sikh in my eyes... like an rainbow.... and thats a beauty of sikhi...... !

Lates all ay haterz!

[Singh47]

We promote the actual puratan sant culture

Puraatan? Sant culture is NOT puraatan. It has only become well-known for the last 50 years. Before that, ask any Bujurgs if they even heard of any of these Sant Deras all of which claim to be puraatan, and they will say no..

Puraatan? I think not.

[Guest]

Why there is mention of "Sant" word in sggs ji??

Are you calling sggs ji false by putting your ego infront??

If sant was siri guroo granth sahib ji as akjers claim.

Here is what baba jagjit singh harkhowalie has to say to them in an audio divan:

O Khalsa Ji, Sants are ladlee of Guru Maharaj Ji, by saying sants words is reffered to Guru Maharaj Ji is pure man Mukhta because Guru Maharaj is Nirankar jot/prabham/Guru Avtar of Nirankar himself.

Besides Singh47, i would suggest you stick to topic here. This is not debate of actual word of "sant" exists or not 50 yrs or so.

[Xylitol]

Hmmm.... sorry if this is off topic. It seems to me that sometimes when the Guru talks about sants he means the ladlee of Guru Maharaj and other times could it possibly mean the Guru ??

I'm asking b/c in Kirtan Sohila it says to do dandout before a sant is a pun but taksaal rehat says to not bow to sants. What are your thoughts N3O?

[Singh47]

N30 Singh, if Sant culture is so Puraatan (which it is NOT) then why is it that no Puraatan Sikh was called a ‘Sant’? all puraatan Sikhs were called Bhais or Babas, but never ‘Sant’. Sant culture started a little over a hundred years ago, and became only more prominent in the last 50 years particularly in the southern parts of Punjab. Strangely all the Sant Deras claim puraatan descent, which of course is no where near the truth.

Non of todays Sant Deras which claim puraatan descent are mentioned in Suraj Prakash, Panth Prakash, Mahan Kosh or Giani Gyan Singhs works.

[tableji]

lol hey i always thought that sants were connected directly to waheguru...and all the 5 are destroyed..the idea of self is destroyed...rite???yet how come all these "sants" are millionaires, fly all ova the world...have their names written in all kinds of newspapers...if the idea is that ego is destroyed..then surely no1 wud kno who they are...because on purpose they wudnt project their image......they wudnt have to wear white bana.......

oh and remember, this a discussion guys...not an argument...dnt make things personal...if u cant take wot ppl are sayin...jus leave...remember its ur ego being hit wen u cnt take someone elses point of view

[Guest]

I ll answer it to you singh47.

In the meantime..enjoy this peace of work by tsingh from another thread:

Link: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...t=5296&start=15

What is the meaning of Sant and what is their role? They are seekers of ultimate truth, they have in principle dedicated themselves to attaining and imparting brahm vidya. They have existed in every age and in every part of the world. They exist now in Sikhi also.

It all comes down to our understanding of the very structure of Sikhi. Is Sikhi about absolute equality akin to the communist ideology or is it a meritocracy, where those who have the skills and knowledge will automatically accord more merit?

In practice Sikhi is a meritocracy, whether your AKJ or Udasi. Both have pictures of their beloved Sadhus on their walls (I saw the sale of framed pictures of Bhai Randhir Singh at an AKJ smagam in Southall three years ago or so). Why are they on the wall? Because people look to them for guidance and inspiration. The assumption is that that individual has had the EXPERIENCE and can give guidance on how to attain that experience. This is akin to a gurdev. AKJ have them (writings such as the 'Autobiography'), Taksal have them, everyone...someone who is accorded merit who deserves more attention than others who haven't accorded merit.

So, to believe that there shouldn't be Sants is really idiocy, in that you are;

a) discounting that Gurbani delivers what it states (that individual's can become jivanmukt and brahmgyani)

discouting that Sikhi is a meritocracy which is undoubtable

c) Spiritual suicide and the rejection of guru updesh in believing that there is no benefit in listening to others more learned or experienced

NOW your separate issue of whether all those who are given the title of Sant are actually what they claim to be, is a reasonable debate that has also existed for time immemorial. The name might change, but the issue is the same. How many people who'd describe themselves as 'Sikhs' including the very people on this forum (with or without amrit and kesh) are actually living the spiritual values 24-7, myself included? Should we do away with the term Sikh as a consequence?

As for your statement that the Guru was the lowest of the low; of course on one level, he was the epitomy of garib. Yet you have used this as statement about the Guru's physical status. Sant is a title. If the Guru also wish to reject such titles how can you explain Guru ji referring to himself as Dasam Patshah, or having a darbar, or giving hukamnamas? You have created a contradiction here. This is something you must reconcile.

[Guest]

N30 Singh, if Sant culture is so Puraatan (which it is NOT) then why is it that no Puraatan Sikh was called a ‘Sant’? all puraatan Sikhs were called Bhais or Babas, but never ‘Sant’. Sant culture started a little over a hundred years ago, and became only more prominent in the last 50 years particularly in the southern parts of Punjab. Strangely all the Sant Deras claim puraatan descent, which of course is no where near the truth. .

Singh47, before you give me the same fairy tales that akj has been feeding the youths (we shouldnt sant words as if it was a sin). Let me ask you this question.

How would you translate?

Sant and Bhai in english.

Lets say Bhai Sahib siriman 111 randhir singh ji maharaj and sant maharaj raj yogi baba attar singh ji maharaj sitting next to each other.

And some gorra walked in and suppose if you were chela/sevadar of these two souls.

How would u introduce them to an gorra?

Let me say... you goin to say .. one is bhai and another is sant ... difference between them is there is no difference at all .. lol... so thus bhai, sant = HOLY SAINT !

get my point???

Get over this man.... i got better things to do rather to talk about this day in and out... also do check tsingh thread .. he explained it much better...

Non of todays Sant Deras which claim puraatan descent are mentioned in Suraj Prakash, Panth Prakash, Mahan Kosh or Giani Gyan Singhs works

I dont know which sampardha you on about but i suspect you talking about them: Rara Sahib, Nanaksar and Damdami Taksal...

They are all linked with Niramalai Sampardha and they are part of Nirmalaie Sampardha and taksal even belongs to Gyani Sampardha... !

Also before asking this questions... one should look under their manji... especially when there are 4 sub sects of akj's(tapoban, akj, international, panchain)... and all have one in common... carry autobiography of bhai randhir singh ji on their back packs like jevoah witnesses and do the parchar in their own way... !

Ta-Ta

[Singh47]

N30 Singh, I don’t see why you have to attack AKJ every time someone does not agree with Sant Deras. I’m not AKJ, I’m Panthic. I owe my allegiance to the Panth, not to any particular group. In other words, I’m panthic. So it doesn’t really make any sense for you to attack AKJ every time I post something.

BTW, international and Panchain is the same entity. That is why they write it as AKJI(akhand kirtini jatha international)

“I dont know which sampardha you on about but i suspect you talking about them: Rara Sahib, Nanaksar and Damdami Taksal...

They are all linked with Niramalai Sampardha and they are part of Nirmalaie Sampardha and taksal even belongs to Gyani Sampardha... !â€

They are NOT part of the Giani Sampradha. By Giani Sampradha I am assuming you are referring to Giani Vansh (to which Bhai Sant Singh belonged to) based in Amritsar. If you are, then you are sadly mistaken that they are from the same sampradah.

Take a took at Nanaksar’s so called lineage, they don’t have any member of the Giani Vansh in it. Neither does the Rara Sahib Sampradhah. Only Damdami Taksal claims descent from the Giani Vansh. I wont debate Damdami Taksals lineage here with you as it is neither the right place nor right time for such debate, but you N30 Singh know my views on this.

[Guest Javanmard]

There is no such thing as a Giani sampradaya: an SGPC invention with no historical sources backing it!

There are clearly four sampradayas. All the groups mentioned above (rara sahib, Taksal, nanaksar) are sub-sections of the Nirmalas.

[Singh47]

Lalleshwari, does that mean that those groups are just sub-groups which are affiliated with puraatan Nirmala Sampradahs but are not exactly themselves puraatan? Taksal does not claim it’s descent from the Nirmalas. They believe they are from Baba Deep Singh Jee’s Taksal and were started by Guru Gobind Singh Jee himself. But to the best of my knowledge Baba Deep Singh Jee was a Nihang Singh and not a Nirmala.

[Guest]

Singh47, you are diverting the topic here. If you like to discuss about other sampardha.. just simply open up another topic in samparda section.

Off-topics will be deleted !

[Jassa]

Although i very much believe in sants/mahapursh's and have alot of satkaar to say sants are puraatan is very mistaken.

The forst time sant was used for a human was Baba Attar SIngh Ji Mastanawale.

So n3o who are you to claim akj only as manmade. These sampartas have no lineage to Guru Ji's and are manmade aswell!

The only lineage from Guru Ji with a sant is the Damdami Taksal.

Please get your facts right.

In so many of your posts you show a hatred towards AKJ, and make sly comments. No matter how much paath you do you will go nowhere unless you learn to have pyaar towards other jathebandies. The only result is the quom suffers.