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SGPC’s no to descendents of Mian Mir!


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SGPC’s no to descendents of Mian Mir

Amritsar, February 27

The Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) has refused to give permission to Nasin Maqdoom Sayeed Chan Pir Quadri, a descendant of Muslim saint Hazrat Mian Mir of Pakistan, to perform religious hymns in the sanctum sanctorum of the Golden Temple here.

Quadri, the 19th descendant of Hazrat Mia, who is believed to have laid the foundation stone of the temple in 1589 on the request of fifth Sikh Guru Arjan Dev, had arrived here from Pakistan two days ago through the Wagah route with the desire to perform kirtans (hymns) at the Golden Temple.

“We don’t have any problem with their religion but the SGPC and Sikh religion have certain set criteria for anybody who wants to sing kirtans inside the Golden Temple which is lacking in the team lead by Quadri,†SGPC President Bibi Jagir Kaur told reporters here today.

“As per Sikh religion norms, only those people can perform kirtan inside the temple who adopt Sikh religion in letter and spirit. One should be well-versed to sing kirtan as per Sikh rituals for which one has to go through the mandatory training imparted by the SGPC and other Sikh religious and spiritual institutes,†she said. — PTI

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Thats really obsurd, as "sikhism" is supposed to be a "secular" religion. i suppose they might aswell take out the bani written by muslims in the Guru Granth Sahib ji they do prakash of in the inner sanctum. Why do they let that go into the inner sanctum ?

An opportunity to build bridges has been missed by the SGPC.

Never mind.

(oh dear)

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I remember my Dad telling me great Kirtania's who were not baptised Sikhs sung Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, Bhai Chaand (propagator of the parmaan style of kirtan).

They complain of Brahminism and yet they are the worst when it comes to their silly rules.

I read on tapoban that only Giani Gyaan Singh wrote of Mian Mir's involvement with the foundation stone. Is this true? Are there any earlier accounts mentioning this?

Guru Ji asking a Muslim to lay the foundation stone of a place which has 4 doors (for anyone to enter) makes more sense to me, not selecting who is eligible to do it based on how big his sarbloh kara is!

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Thats very disturbing and its not sikhi. This happens when people see guru nanaks teaching and creation of khalsa as two seperate things. Guru gobind singh didnt create khalsa to rule a piece of land , for creation of khalistan as we are made to understand these days. Khalsa is to protect the guru nanak's sikhi not create khalistan.

The very principles that sikhi is based are being ignored for political reasons.

There is no difference between gurbani and nirankar , what right does sgpc have to stop someone from performing kirtan.

I remember bhai chaman lal ji was stopped for doing kirtan at bangla sahib gurdwara by sgpc as he was a bad influence(because he didnt kept kes) on young generation.( later he kept kes and they lifted the ban) . Now 50% of all sikhs drink alchohol and it is served in 99% of all parties now if that doesnt have effect on youth than what else does.

The sgpc runs many schools in india in a very miserable way.

few years back gurdwara elections in delhi were marked by gunshots in west delhi.Its all about money and politics nothing sacred about SGPC.

wjkk wjkf

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why should Mian Mir's descendants get any special privelages over anybody else? I am believe just having a holy man as a fore-father isn't good enough reason to demand to be allowed to play at harmandir sahib. if the guy has any special skills which haven't been mentioned in this thread then it may be a different matter, but as things stand i don't see the controversy.

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Bhai Mardanas decendant who wanted to sing kirtan at Harmandir Sahib was denied, and his knowledge of raag kirtan is awesome, its not about skill which SGPC are lookin at , they couldnt give a damn.

If Guru Granth Sahib mentions anywhere where a Muslim should give up his faith and become an amritdhari khalsa, please show me. Was Bhagat Kabir and many other bhagats, Sikhs?, even when they existed before Guru Nanak Dev Ji? If their bani is good enough for Guru Ram Das and Guru Arjan Dev Ji to encorporate into the compilation of the Adi Granth, then who are the SGPC to say that non Sikhs cant sing kirtan. Before when Sri Harmandir Sahib used to be a place where people of different faiths got together and sang praises of Waheguroo, Ram, Allah, now it looks like they are being denied that right, truely sad.

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Excellent post Iron Bangle. I feel the same.

why should Mian Mir's descendants get any special privelages over anybody else? I am believe just having a holy man as a fore-father isn't good enough reason to demand to be allowed to play at harmandir sahib. if the guy has any special skills which haven't been mentioned in this thread then it may be a different matter, but as things stand i don't see the controversy.

Special priviliges? So singing Kirtan in front of Guru Sahib is a special privilige? I thought it was something everyone should be encouraged to do, have you read the way you sound here?

Not everyone has special skills, doesnt mean which should ban them from singing Kirtan.

As Iron Bangle said very rightly, if the Bhagats Bani was included in the Guru Sahib we bow to daily, why are non-Sikhs not allowed to do Kirtan?

The controversy is clear, people should be allowed to sing Kirtan regardless of their caste and religion, its ridiculous. People can eat in the langar from all walks of life, Guru Sahib didnt force Mardana to convert even though he was with Maharaj for his whole life!

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Special priviliges? So singing Kirtan in front of Guru Sahib is a special privilige? I thought it was something everyone should be encouraged to do, have you read the way you sound here?

Not everyone has special skills, doesnt mean which should ban them from singing Kirtan.

i agree. but how many people in this world would like to do kirtan at darbar sahib. how many are denied? all i am saying is that this person should not recieve special privelages because he is the descendant of a chardi-kalaa person. sorry if believing in meritocracy offends your views. the way that u guys have supported ur argument is wrong. rather than saying that it is wrong that he is being banned on the basis of religion ur fellow supporters in this thread are arguing that he should be allowed to do this sewa because he is mian mir's descendnt. personally i don't think this is a strong enuf argument. if u re-read my post i have made this clear.

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I would recommend having this discussion with the Tapoban members, particularly Kulbir Singh, who can provide you with the views and supporting ‘evidence’ that probably support the SGPC decision, namely that the Bhagats were not born before the Gurus and that they were in fact ‘Sikhs’ of the Gurus, hence no longer Muslim or Hindu, hence this argument that Sikhi is secular or that we have grounds for allowing non-Sikhs to perform kirtan is another inroad made by the ‘enemies’ of Sikhi...I shall allow members to go and search for this accordingly on Tapoban themselves and familiarise themselves with the argument, as this is not only about SGPC and the associated Jat-Money-Land politics, but a view shared by other sections of the Sikh community as well.

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Im a feminatic, get it? Aaah Shadap Nari...Naari..get it? lmao.

Good points Niranjana. Palm, the issue is not that he is Mian Mir's descendant but that someone who is accomplished at some level in Gurmat Sangeet should be allowed to sing in front of Maharaaj, regardless of religion. Khalaas.

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There is no such thing as a "secular religion". That is a completely absurd statement. The two words are opposites of eachother.

Either Sikhism is a religion, or its just a philosophy/culture. You decide.

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I am of the view that if a person though from another religion keeps "shardha" and comes especially from another country, specially to perform keertan, as well as to bow to a pious place i.e. SriDarbarSahib where his decendants laid the foundation stone with the kindness of our Most Respected Guruji then, there is nothing wrong to allow him and there should not be any bar. If Baba Faridji's Bani is there, who happened to be a Muslim Faqir and if therer are Swayyays from Bhatts in the "Ustat" of Honourable Guruji, then why a Muslim may not be allowed to perform keertan. Then what is the purpose of four doors for all of four main religions around Shri Harmandir Sahib. Sikhi is very vishaal and we should not bring its area contrast, but should work to widen it keeping in view its true spirit, as per the instructions of our Guruji and Gurbani. Gurbani says, "Awal Allah Noor Upaaya, Kudrat de sabh Bande". We must show frakhdili in such matters. We must allow Bhai Lal ji (decendant of Bhai Mardana, who always accompanied Shri Guru Nanak Devji) and similarly as noted in our above post i.e. decendant of Sayeen Mian Meerji to perform keertan. This was being done uptill the years of 1947 and after that measures were changed. If there was no problem upto 47s then there might not be any such difficulty now-a-days. chhinder@rediffmail.com

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beast i'm guessing ur a smart doggy and u know what i'm getting at. lol.

Niranjana boy listen i got a question. if the bhagats and bhats were known as sikhs like u r saying did they take charan paul from guru nanak dev ji to become a sikh?? if not how did they become sikh?

can any1 else ask this to mr tapoban plz. kulbir singh i think his name is?

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Dear doaba,

Please note (a) I am not a 'boy' and (B) I am not in any way endorsing the views of the Tapoban Singhs or indeed those of Bhai Kulbir Singh.

If one wants to discuss any matter it is worth looking into all sides, as such whatever the views held by our brothers and sisters at Tapoban, their view is one such representation of what constitutes Gurmat in this instance.

Please have a look on Tapoban and familiarise yourself with their arguments and then comment accordingly.

Dear black goddess,

As someone versed in the classical sangeet tradition, perhaps you could comment on the abilities of these musicians? Also if what you say is correct, where else do we apply such views? Someone is exceptionally good at reading paath, a very talented cook for the langar etc...is this is only defining line or do we require additional protocol?

Thanks,

Niranjana.

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