danger of sanatan!

[Kam1825]

I have just recieved a VCD from india showing how hindu society is twisting our history and messing things up. Such as guru gobind singh ji taking charan amrit from three brahmins before the amrit sanchar in 1699 and from this he met the devi devtas who gave items which make up the amrit and the 5 ks.

What a load of crap.

Although i am aware the nihang singhs believe we were given the 5Ks from different devtas. (Messed up thinking)

I will pu the VCD on the hub next week it is really worth watching it shows how groups like the RSS especially has manipulated Bani and made a mockery of it saying it is all in praise of the Vedas which in themselves are just contradictary of each other. All is explained on the VCD.

I am sure i will get some flack off a lot of you but i am not going to hide the truth.

[challenge_everything]

do nihang singhs believe this is this a total generalisation or what?

proof for every nihang singh believeing ure above comment???

[Cksinghani]

thank you there are some nihangs out there that dont believe in this stuff so please do not generalise and if you are going to slag off thos that do believe in what your talking about then please back it up with some proof as people will start to think that all nihangs believe in this when i know for a fact not all of them do.

[tSingh]

Do remember that these views are not simply pulled out of the air, but these are direct quotations from Gurbilas literture (Koer Singh if I remember correctly).

[Guest]

All I know and beleive is- Guru Maharaj were not upasakhs of any devi or devta's but they were upasakh of Nirankar only !!!!!!!!!!

Pooja Akaal Ki, Parcha Shabad Da, Didar Khalsaiye Da ||

[Guest]

Kam can you upload it on to new ftp server provided by sodhi sian...

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Snaatan mat is really messed up. THey are # 1 kaami and do their kaamic activities with anyone outside their wife or husband. They also do other wrogn thigs. A good example of snaatan character were mahants who were controlling Sikh Gurudwaras and assualting bibis. SGPC kicked the crap out of those monsters.

[Dynamic_Banda]

Lol firstly the devi devtas are present in sikhi they came with gifts and bow their heads in the darbar of of the puran Guru Avtaar (Guru Joht from Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Ji),

What this implies depends on how you regard the Devi Devta, either as metaphorical representations of the powers of Akaal, in which case associated a Kakar to a devi, devta would imply associating it to that specific shakti from Akaalpurakh,

Such as the Kashera coming from Hunuman - Hunuman was mythologically the most chaste, so maybe its a reference to the shakti of the kashera being that of kaam control,

If taken as an idol manner as the RSS do, then once again they just fools and Kam its actually thanks to the nihangs we can break this bhramin Sanaatan argument

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji took charan amrit from 3 bhramins first and saw devi and created Khalsa from Bhramins. And Nihangs believe that as you say then Why would nihangs eat meat, or state Bakaras were chatka'd on Vaisakhi day (not concerned here with wether they were there in place of the panj, or just there for sangta to eat) - lol kinda against the Bhramin way isnt it !!

Also yaara according to what I understand Khalsa is Akaal Purakh, the devi devta are minor in comparison, they do Puja of the Khalsa. AND KHALSA and the NIHANGS (quote Baba Hari Singh Budhadal not Baba Bakale Vale but the Really dark black one respected by most Jathedars including Baba Joginder Singh) " I do not follow any of these Jathedars, with their damn meetings and plannings, (said while sitting in his tent at Akali Phula Singh Burj) or any of these so called saints, I follow Guru Maharaj, DIRECT.. Akaal Purakh, DIRECT," (this quote has been losesly translated as he spoke in punjabi, except for the word DIRECT.. lol When asked if he follows Baba Santa Singh or believes in Devi Devta his reply was "Akaal Purakh, DIRECT"

So there is one Nihang who definatly doesnt believe in devi devtas playing any kind of role.

[challenge_everything]

akaaaal

[Kam1825]

if you read the veds it states in there how to do a sacrifice of all sorts of animals. This is followed by bhramins. Not all bhramins are vegetarian!

The film is called Tabeh Rose Jagiyo.

It is a DVD so going to have to get someone to convert it to VCD fomat then will put it up somewhere.

[challenge_everything]

bhaji u still havent said anything about your original comment - the wierd uncalled for generalisation

[Guest]

You can download Tabeh Rose Jagiyo on:

http://www.khalsa.tv/?view=19

[Malwe Da Sher]

Everyone is so concerned about RSS and other external organistaions tampering with our history. No one has F*cked up our history as much as SGPC... its threats from within that afftect us most. and also other organisations tend to pick and choose pieces from history and pervert history in other ways to make themselves look like khalsa.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

It is true that SGPC doesn't have Gurmat Gian. They did but they got corrupt. Wrong people have crept in.

[CK]

What does "sanatan" mean? I've heard a couple of definitions...including "traditional" but that doesn't make much sense.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Snatan is Hinduism based. E.g. Bhagat Singh's parents were snaatan. That is why he became and atheist. He din want to worship all the devi devtas. Bhai Randheer Singh taught him about Sikhism and he accepted. He was going to take Khanday Di Pahul but was hanged. He had long hair before he dies. 6 Inches with beard and mush.

I am not part of AKJ. So don't try to label me AKJ or something because I wrote about Bhai Randheer Singh.

[Niranjana]

Everyone is so concerned about RSS and other external organistaions tampering with our history. No one has F*cked up our history as much as SGPC... its threats from within that afftect us most. and also other organisations tend to pick and choose pieces from history and pervert history in other ways to make themselves look like khalsa.

Dear Malwe Da Sher, Khalsa Fauj and others of the pro/anti-Sanatani, pro/anti-SGPC, pro/anti-AKJ etc etc points of view,

Sorry to disappoint you all, however none of these institutions or groups is innocent of the accusations they cast upon others –that is just a simple reality for any institution in the world.

So here is my USD 0.02 on the comments above:

1. Sanatan does not mean Hindu, I believe even Bhai Sahib Kahn Singh Nabha defines in his works as that was which is most ancient. The fact that Hindu movements today like to use this term, should not mean we be paranoid of it, however I personally feel it to be nowadays a word too politically loaded to be brandished about carefree.

2. Yes, the SGPC/Tat-Khalsa Singh Sabha have a lot to answer for from their recent off-shoots such as IOSS and their re-writing of history and camouflaging of points not to their liking, however they are not the only ones to be doing this –actually have a read of the so-called ‘Nihang Bible’ Pracheen Panth Parkash (Rattan Singh Bhangoo) or even the works of the illustrious Nirmala “Gyani†Gyan Singh (works frequently quoted and heralded by the pro-Sanatanis) –there is much in these texts that have been distorted and twisted.

A lot of this ties in with attitudes towards Banda Singh Bahadur, the rise of Jat Polity during the British Raj and subsequently (and hence the existence of the SGPC and their well known Jat nepotism), the disillusion felt of many ‘scheduled’ classes within the Sikh masses, the rise of Sant movements and further splits and innovations of traditions –however these days, interestingly enough we all keen to seek the RSS or the Bahmans as the root cause of these problems! They’re simply picking up the trail left wide open, in this much I will agree with Malwe Da Sher, however let’s be honest and accept this type of action has been happening for much longer than the SGPC have existed and within the so-called blessed ‘sampradhas’ themselves.

Gur Fateh!

Niranjana.

[CK]

So what does sanatan mean? And what does sanatan Sikhism mean?

I'm not particualrly pro- or anti- anything...I'm way too stupid for that

[Guest]

Ck here is the post i made long time ago to make sangat understand the term sanatan.

Title - Sanatan Sikhi Vs Sanatan Mat.

Ok reason for my post is to help people understand these two terms and how they are different.

There is been lot of negative talks about the term "Sanatan".

The prefix "Sanatan Sikhi" is used mostly from the adhyatamic perspective (spiritual). It simply means eternal sikhi.

quotes to back it up from sikh scriptures both siri guroo granth sahib and sarbloh granth:

‘From seeing angels of death [fearing death] now I see but Ram [Ramachandar/Nirankar God].

My suffering has fled and comfort taken abode [in my heart].

Those denying God [the five senses], have become noble [having acknowledged Nirankar God].

Now I have attained complete bliss.

I have been cooled [mind settled] when I appreciated Gobind [God].

In the body are found innumerable troubles.

Now, spontaneously in comfort, I am absorbed in God.

I have recognized my true self.

Now no ailment of the three fevers affects me.

Now my mind has changed and become Sanatan.

Now I appreciate [Truth] having died whilst alive [meaning being unaffected by temptations of the world].

Says Kabir, in comfort spontaneously be absorbed in God.

I fear no one, nor am I intimidated by anyone.’

Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Raag Gauri, Pa.326-327

Traditions that are Sanatan are the ancient Dharma whose virtues the Vedas sing.

That [sanatan] Brahm [all pervasive God] highest God,

Sarbloh, is known as king of all demigods.’

‘Sarbloh Granth’, Vol. 2. Chapter Five, Pa.549

Siri Sarbloh consider as Sanatan.’

‘Sarbloh Guru Durbar’, Vol. 2. Chapter Five, Pa.196

Now defination of Sanatan Mat(way):

I was reading Akaal Ustat english translations by Surinder Singh Kohli. page- 39 in his book.

Came across to this verse.

Kaie Dev Ad Kumar, Kaie Kirsan Bisan Avtar ||

Created many gods, and Adi Kumars, sons of brahma (Sanak, Sanndan, Sanatan and Sanat Kumar), many Krishnas and incarations of Vishnu.

Sanatan Matt was created by son of bhrama. Sanatan Mat does not have anything to do with Gurmat.

Gurmat does not equal to Sanatan Matt

However Gurmat equal sanatan sikhi because it's enternal.

Anyone can be sanatan Sikh ..mind you it's not a sect or a brand..it's has it's eternal meaning.

Now main issue-

- Do Nihangs from UK use Sanatan sikhi term as eternal or create another brand within sikhi (ie- Sanatan Matt/traditional).

Answer: Some Nihangs from uk consider Sanatan Sikhi as eternal, not traditional and consider it's more of a spiritual term than actual brand or sect/orders BUT some DON'T and consider sanatan as traditional because they misinterperated Sanatan Sikhi as Sanatan Matt (distinctive group).

Remember Sanatan matt is completely opposite of Gurmat.

One who follow Gurmat and can not alinged themselve to Sanatan Matt but they can surely aling themselves as "Sanatan Sikh" because it's eternal.

Because it means eternal..if we look at the ultimately and study from those quotes above under sanatan sikhi then every one of us is sanatan not traditionally but spiritually because we follow sikhi of nirankar..we follow bani which is from dhuro(divine message) - Dhur Ki bani.

Reason i m clarifying is because of this hatred towards sanatan word itself...and that's not right..one has to make distincation between sanatan sikhi and sanatan matt.

so please guys don't just hate word sanatan sikhi because it's means more than you think it means..it means eternal, not tradition.

defination of eternal :Being without beginning or end

Ikongkar satnam karta purkh nirbhau nirvair akaal murat ajoni sahibang Gurparsad ||

Jap Ad such, jugad sach, hai bhi sach nanak hosbhi sach ||

[artistformalyknownasodhi]

if we ask the meaning of sanatan are we not trying to put it into a certain group. n isnt that what all the fuss is about.

when people realise its all bout pyar, jus pyar

[drawrof]

I'm glad I checked this site today!

let me clarify a few things, especially for khalsa fauj!

Snatan is Hinduism based. E.g. Bhagat Singh's parents were snaatan.

(Shaheed bhagat singh's parents WERE NOT snatan. His father Kishen SINGH was actually an amritdhari gursikh who pushed to have his wedding as an anand karaj around guru granth sahib ji. His father Arjun Singh was snatan! Bhagat singh's mother told my naniji (her daughter and the youngest sister of bhagat singh) that on every sangrand, bhagat singh would go to a gurdwara, wherever he was, and do bheta of a ramaala). My nanaji who went to university with him in lahore said he would always be doing simran in his mouth.

next point.

That is why he became and atheist.

He wasn't athiest. he was a socialist who was greatly inspired by the communist revolution.

He din want to worship all the devi devtas.

He didn't worship any devis/devtas...another concoction

Bhai Randheer Singh taught him about Sikhism and he accepted.

another concoction

He was going to take Khanday Di Pahul but was hanged. He had long hair before he dies. 6 Inches with beard and mush.

no he wasn't, had he wanted to become amritdhari, his family would have followed his footsteps. If you look at any of the brothers, none of them were keshdari! also I asked his one living sister, who l visit regularly...his mother was really religious and always did paat...hence my naniji, and my naniji's sisters did the same

I am not part of AKJ. So don't try to label me AKJ or something because I wrote about Bhai Randheer Singh.

if you have any further questions, I have talked to everyone in the family who has written anything about bhagat singh, btw....the lineage traces back to baba deep singh....and I have seen with my own eyes,and held in my own hand...bhagat singh's final writings....no where, is bhai randhir singh mentioned...feel free to ask

[Bruce Lung]

people have died because of this. of course it's dangerous. do not use when under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

[Guest]

people have died because of this. of course it's dangerous. do not use when under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

what are you talkin about??

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Hey. I don't know. I wrote the info I had received. That is some new information. That is alright. Maybe that Bhai Randheer Singh part is false! Who knows. However, this is true that he had hair before he was hanged. 6 inches. There is a picture that was taken. You can't say he wasn't kesadhari. I don't know and don't care about the family if they had or have hair. It is good that you have first hand information on his family. Bhagat Singh was misguided though. That is why he cut his hair.

Also:

How about all the writings by Bhagat Singh where he claims to be an atheist? Clrify another point for me. If he wasn't an atheist then why does everyone try to partray him as one. How can he do Simran of Guru Nanak Ji's bani and not follow the first order of Guru Nanak Ji. The hukam of keeping hair. He either didn't have knowledge that hair are 1st important thing and learned from Bhai Randheer Singh. The second is he didn't do simran.

[sexy_singh]

around about 30 minutes, which is where iam right now, he starts talking about old school singhs. and it really does make one wonder. man, they were so cool.

before that i wasnt really moved by the propaganda.

if ur gonna watch it, dont go by first impressions!