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Not sure if this was said...


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This is based on hearsay and I am not sure if its true...

I've heard that somewhere in the Dasam Granth it says (or apparently as people would wanna say that Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj said so) that if you applied honey all over your arms till your elbows, and put your arms inside a sack containing tills, the number of tills that get stuck to your arms (which would be in millions), if a Muslim takes that many oaths, don't trust him even then!

Sounds absurd? I don't know what to believe, so some experts on Dasam Granth please respond.

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Guest Javanmard

I've heard that somewhere in the Dasam Granth it says (or apparently as people would wanna say that Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj said so) that if you applied honey all over your arms till your elbows, and put your arms inside a sack containing tills, the number of tills that get stuck to your arms (which would be in millions), if a Muslim takes that many oaths, don't trust him even then!

Ah God again one of this Islamophobic pindoo traditions...

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Ah God again one of this Islamophobic pindoo traditions...

Yes quite, it is common to hear this from a certain generation amongst Sikhs, however as this thread is illustrating most of the current generation do not appear to be familiar with this, although I do believe there is a reference to this account in the Sau Sakhi (please verify if I am mistaken).

Interestingly there are many interesting "traditions" that certain Islamic communities have concerning the Sikhs which I have come across and continue to encounter such as:

- Sikhs don't cut their kesh as they have vowed not to until they don't kill all Muslims,

- Sikhs wear a kara on their wrist as a reminder of the handcuffs placed on their ancestors following a a battle between them and the righteous Islamic army to whom they lost (which battle this is has never been elaborated!), and

- when Sikhs prepare Karah Prashad in the Gurdwara they yell a battlecry in which they vow to kill Muslims as they 'strike' down into the prashad with a sword...!!!

Pendoos, sadly will be pendoos, whether in the Pind or outside, whether educated or otherwise, regardless of background, religion, beliefs, etc...it just goes with the territory...

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I have nowhere in Dasam Guru Granth read anything so absurd as what you have asked, Mehtab Singh. Seems like someone wiv a grudge has made up this . ive heard it b4 from one of my tiranga loving gandhi brown-nosing acquaitainences.
LOL...so it is infact framed then, isn't it? I guess that explains it all.

ah pindoos...LOL
Yea probably, any educated one would think 100 times before presenting such facts.

Thanks all :D

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I think that may be the false promises made to Guru Gobind Singh on the Quran, which ultimately lead to the martydom of the younger Princes, had a huge impact on Sikh psyshe.

The Zafarnama obvioulsy has a number of references to these false promises taken on the Quran - although they obvioulsy refer to Aurangzeb and his representatives.

But maybe during a dangerous period in history, when Singhs had a price on their heads, references like those in the Prachin Panth Prakash were derived from necessary survival tactics....

This obviously does not imply that no Muslim should be trusted, just saying that rather than taking such an extreme and narrow view, maybe the evironment and scenario of those times didn't allow the luxury of time for a strangers character to be learnt before he could be trusted.... as it was, the large part of the enemy were from an Islamic background being Mughals, Turks, Afghans what have you.... and warfare is no game as we see today in the UK when the Muslim populace and Mosques are being monitored carefully due to the threat of terrorism (be it that the dangerous element is miniscule).

Again, I'm not saying the quote is to be read in black and white and is eternal in nature, but rather that it may have been a life saving saying to know and practice during a period in history when ruling Muslim (using this word it's most diluted sense) hostilities were devious and genocidal in nature.

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Guest Javanmard

So Bhai Mardana and Pir Buddhu Shah couldn't be trusted? interesting. This is all just post 1708 racist bullshit. Sorry to say it like that but my experience of this community is that it is extremely racist towards others. Just my experience. I see it as the symptom of th epost 1708 emergence of Jatt supremacist power within the Panth. Just read in certain rahitname how Tarkhans are talked off as being low and impure. All written by Jatt supremacists. I am not trying to be bad but Jatts in general just think that Sikhi belongs to them as some God given right to the point of excluding everyone else. The worst thing is that when you read about how they behaved in Maharaj's time it's really shameful. The Brars just messing around with Guru Gobind Singh because of water. Agra Jatt Sikhs torturing Guru Tegh Bahadur before handing him over to Aurangzeb. And let's not forget their rewriting of history. They make Baba Dep Singh a Sandhu when in fact he had humble Muslim origins and in fact most of the people who defended Harmandir Sahib with him were Muslims. The very epitome of Jatt supremacism is them not allowing non Jatts to become head of the Nirmala sampradaya. When you understand that Jatts have polluted the Panth with their supremacist views you start understanding their racist writings against Nanakshahi Muslims and Brahmin Singhs. It's all about kicking out the landowning elite out of the Panth through dirty tactics. Ever wondered why they forbid reading Farsi or having Brahmin Singhs doing anand karaj as the Gurus did? Because they think of themselves as the navel of the world. Sorry but true. I have many Jatt friends but fact remains that even they themselves admit that this racism is the biggest problem of the Panth as it has cut it off from its roots and has made pindooness a nishani of a true Sikh. What a shame!!! Using the Panth to gain land and power!!! Disgusting but trust me Maharaj will have his revenge trust me!!!

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No one was being racist, I mentioned a few possibly relevant quotes from the Zafarnamah and the fact, that in India, at various periods during the 18c, there was genocidal hostility from Muslim rulers "of that time". The rest is a matter of pragmatic or biased understanding, personal choice.

Rubbishing what "may" possibly have been good advice during a time when many Sikh men, women and children were victims of heinous crimes and forced conversions were the norm is easy for anyone to say who hasn't been through that hell themself. I somehow doubt that Banda Bahadurs wars did much good for Sikh-Muslim relations...

There would have been devious Mughal agents who would have used imaginative and dramatical means to locate the scattered Sikh populace.

No one is implying that there weren't any any friendly, spiritual or loyal Muslims, but that doesn't change the facts stated above.

I thought the caste supremecy thing started during the Britishers people categorisation and land reform policies.... Funnily enough it was the European obsession with race categorisation that has created conflict and strife in many countries i.e. Belgiums great historic race ID contribution which ultimately and sadly lead to the genocide of millions of innocents.

You mention some interesting things re anti-Tarkhan rehitname and Shaheedi Misl being mostly Muslim... could you kindly provide references for this, and if you have time, would appreciate if you could provide extracts.

I'm not convinced of the Jat supremecy thing immediately post 1708, as otherwise, the 2 famous Jassa Singh Sardars would not have become so powerful, and legendery warriors such Bhai Sukha Singh would not have become an inspiration for a whole fighting nation...

Dhanvaad.

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Muslims oppressed Sikhs until the fall of the Mughal raj (except for a a few short periods in-between). It is natural for there to be mistrust, logical or not. A lot of what is being said above and the Iran thread reminds me of how the RSS claim everything was invented in Mother India, but this time it is Persia.

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Guest Javanmard

Ah denial...you people are so good at it. If you guys cared to read history maybe you'd find out what the deal is all about.

1. Sikhs are not a nation or qaum, so stop talking about Sikh nation.

2. Yeah Matheen I never said Iran invented everything under the sun but I think anyone would agree that Iran has had a tremendous influence over India at all levels. Try to speak Panjabi without Farsi words and we'll see how far you go...

3. Shaheediyan:

"Rubbishing what "may" possibly have been good advice during a time when many Sikh men, women and children were victims of heinous crimes and forced conversions were the norm is easy for anyone to say who hasn't been through that hell themself. "

Have you yourself been the victim of Islamic violence?

Again the same stupid tribalistic argument:" Ooooo Bahadur you cannot understand wht it means to be a Singh cos your grandparents didn't go through partition and your uncle wasn't shot in 1984 by the police!". Again the same exclusivistic argument according to wich if you don't have Panjabi ancestry whatever you may do to be a Sikh doesn't count because you don't share that tribal history. And yet you glare about how open you are to others...bullshit!!!

4."I thought the caste supremecy thing started during the Britishers people categorisation and land reform policies.... Funnily enough it was the European obsession with race categorisation that has created conflict and strife in many countries i.e. Belgiums great historic race ID contribution which ultimately and sadly lead to the genocide of millions of innocents. "

Why don't you also blame kurimar on Europe?

5."If we understand and respect the institution of Khande de Pahul, Baba Deep Singh Ji was a Singh of the Khalsa, pure and simple, all tribal/caste roots were annihilated upon partaking amrit."

BULLSHIT!!! Open ANY Panjabi newspaper and look at the matrimonial adds! I mean you really want me to swallow the big lie that you guys don't care about caste. That is the most laughable thing I have heard recently.

Denial denial denial...

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JM,

1. what does the word Panth mean? - we always hear that it means nation, what do you reckon?

2. Some of us don't really give a c*ap about caste or race, but i know some do.

3. I have been a victim of islamic violence....but with Guru's kirpa sorted them out and I still love them all.

4. I am not in de-nile i am in de-getto.

You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters.—Plato

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Guest Javanmard

1. Any idiot knows that Panth means way. Check any Sanskrit dictionary as it a sanskrit word.

2. Good for u

3. Well I only consider Shi'as to be Muslims and I don't remember shi'as having gangs

4. I guessed so

"You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters.—Plato "

The very fact u post this shows that you judge my son...

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