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What is Naam di daat?


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Sant Isher Singh Ji gives one explanation of what Naam is in one of the 'atmik bachan' recordings - before they explain how to do simran. Maybe Neo or Kam have the recordings?

One explanation that I have heard (amongst others..) is that we literally ask Maharaj to make us their own and give us their name - like a bride takes the groom's family name.

Another explanation i once heard is that the word Naam can be thought of as 'Na Meh' (No ego) so this would again be asking Maharaj to merge us into themselves.

The most common interpretation i've come across is that asking for Naam is asking to be put on the path of simran and for 'safalta' on that path.

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the recording can be found on www.gurbaniupdesh.org.

The best recordings to listen to are the mp3s of Sant Waryam Singh Ji Ratwara Sahib Walae. Naam Di Mehima and Jap Ji Da Mahatam. Very good knowledge on naam.

Naam di daat. is the gift or the virtue of the incantation matra given by one to another in order to meditate upon it in order to attain union with God. With mainstream sikhs the naam is given byt the 5 piaray. in Udasis, Sanyasis and Brahmcharis is is given by the teacher to the student. I think with the Namdharis it is still geven by Baba Jagjit Singh Ji.

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Naam di daat. is the gift or the virtue of the incantation matra given by one to another in order to meditate upon it in order to attain union with God. With mainstream sikhs the naam is given byt the 5 piaray. in Udasis, Sanyasis and Brahmcharis is is given by the teacher to the student.

but then why do Amritdhari Singhs still ask for Naam di Dat?

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here is my 2 cents, naam daat is something really deeper, its like gurmukh rom rom har dhavaie avastha, getting gurmantar is not equal to getting naam di daat. What we get from panj pyares, gurmukhs, bhramgyanis, sanyasi is gurmantar/GurShabad.

The real naam is inside us as guru maharaj talks about in sukhmani sahib:

Nau Nidh Amrit Prab Ka Naam

Deh Mein Eska Bisraam ||

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no idea, the other thing i heard from Sant Hari Singh is that Naam is also internal as you go through the four stages of Vaikhri Madhma Parsanti and Para to do Jaap then the Naam can be found inside you along with the anahad shabad. Within one can find the primal lord in order to merge. Maybe this is the reason why. i can only speculate. TSingh is the one who i know has got Jeevani i think this question needs to be put to him or Neo

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When we are asking Gurujee for Naam di daat, what is it exactly that we are asking for? References to what certain Gurmukh Mahapurkhs have said in this regard will be helpful in understanding this, so please bring that out or quote it, and also shed some light with your own understanding of this concept.

Naam can be few things and is used in many different contexts. One of them being the Name of God. Waheguru is the Naam (Name) of the Anami, ie: Mil Saadh Sangat bhaj Kewal Naam. This refrence is to the name of God, Ram, Allah, Waheguru and so on.

I have also heard most consider the 'Gurmantra' given at the time of Amrit Sanchaar to be Naam. I am a bit hesitant on this, considering the amount of mahima given to Naam that it can be just given to anyone taking Amrit. When the Guru Considers Naam to be Highest of the High

khin khin naam samaaleeai guramukh paavai koe ||

Each and every moment, dwell on the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the Gurmukhs obtain it.

I think the last word here Koe is an important which surprisingly in the translation of this line is completely ignored. Few Gurmukhs or few who are Gurmukhs attain this Naam. Not everyone who is told to Jap Waheguru.

But when Naam is used in context of, jis no kirapaa karehi thin naam ratan paaeiaa || To me personally this reference is not speaking to that which can be verbalized, written in the form of a words or be captured by thought.

What exactly that is, I haven't the slightest idea. A question i've been trying to find the answer to for a while.

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when we get amritchuk, that is naam dhan as well.

but when people and Bani normally refer to it, they refer to something higher. whenever you go to a mahapursh, always ask for naam dhan. they can tell you the gupt vidya to achieve this very high and very desirable spiritual state. i look forward to learnign more on this from you guys.

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I believe this is much deeper and more real than anything that has been expressed. Those who have quaffed the taste know, and I believe it is very personal to one's own spiritual condition as well....There are many terms out there we need to define before engaging deeper.

A point I'd like to re-iterate, when a buddhist understands sikhi, they will understand sikhi from the eyes of a buddhist, this applies to both vedantists and muslims (those of sunni and shia persuasions, christians etc.....the point here is if terms like (naam, satguru, gur) are in vogue...what is the actual context and definition for a sikh, and if there isnt a definition...logically, shouldn't we get to the etymology of these words to find the most authentic explanation?.........If it is experience we are discussing then it really can't be expressed unless someone has devised a methodology, and if it is metaphorical....well that has its drawbacks as well.

Gurfateh

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  • 4 weeks later...

I believe this is much deeper and more real than anything that has been expressed. Those who have quaffed the taste know, and I believe it is very personal to one's own spiritual condition as well....There are many terms out there we need to define before engaging deeper.

A point I'd like to re-iterate, when a buddhist understands sikhi, they will understand sikhi from the eyes of a buddhist, this applies to both vedantists and muslims (those of sunni and shia persuasions, christians etc.....the point here is if terms like (naam, satguru, gur) are in vogue...what is the actual context and definition for a sikh, and if there isnt a definition...logically, shouldn't we get to the etymology of these words to find the most authentic explanation?.........If it is experience we are discussing then it really can't be expressed unless someone has devised a methodology, and if it is metaphorical....well that has its drawbacks as well.

Gurfateh

Would Lao Tsu describe naam as such:

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.

The name is the mother of the ten thousand things.

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vinegar the destruction of self would result in death, if an individual has no personality he cannot live in a body. The jeev has to identify with some attributes otherwise the jeev is paramatma. This attribute is naam. Which in my understanding is not an attribute but the attribute, the secret. Haumai has to be defined carefully otherwise we are back to the physical and mental mortifications and suppressions of the yogi's. I think of it as false personality, when you must die it is not the "I" that dies but the false I. Seperating false from true means false haumai from true haumai. As the sand is sifted out and the gold particles become evident, the naam becomes more evident. The true I is at one with naam it works with gods order, it is gods name to receive naam he must bestow a title upon you a name appropriate to your individuality so naam must be different for each person who receives it.

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ਪੰਨਾ 20, ਸਤਰ 12

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਨਿਵਰੀ ਭਾਹਿ

haumai is usually translated as egotism. So the gurmukh extinguishes egotism. the gurmukh who praises the name replaces the haumai or ego. So logically you are replacing one false corrupt wrong ego with a divine one an ego facing towards the guru who is nirankar. The gurmukh does not become extinguished with haumai, gurbani does not say this. Whilst singing praises of the naam haumai is finished, so when haumai is finished does the singer of praise also finish, i'd say no.

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vinegar the destruction of self would result in death, if an individual has no personality he cannot live in a body. The jeev has to identify with some attributes otherwise the jeev is paramatma. This attribute is naam. Which in my understanding is not an attribute but the attribute, the secret. Haumai has to be defined carefully otherwise we are back to the physical and mental mortifications and suppressions of the yogi's. I think of it as false personality, when you must die it is not the "I" that dies but the false I. Seperating false from true means false haumai from true haumai. As the sand is sifted out and the gold particles become evident, the naam becomes more evident. The true I is at one with naam it works with gods order, it is gods name to receive naam he must bestow a title upon you a name appropriate to your individuality so naam must be different for each person who receives it.

The point is to replace yourself with the guru.

tuhi muhi, muhi tuhu, antar kaisa

"true haumai" - oxymoron

Where you get the idea of 'no personality' I don't know. When there is naam the person is roop of the guru and has the guru's personality. Before you say then, that all mahapursh would have the same personality

'anek hai, phir ek hai', i.e. nirankar.

So logically you are replacing one false corrupt wrong ego with a divine one an ego

Fallacy.

Ego - (noun) A sense of self esteem or self importance.

The true Gurmukh is the dust of the feet of all and has no ego. Ego ≠ personality.

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Before proceeding, maybe the definition of ego needs to be clarified.

"Ego - (noun) A sense of self esteem or self importance."

In the way i have been writing this would be the negative ego we have to expunge.

"The true Gurmukh is the dust of the feet of all"

I agree with this, but with this "and has no ego" i do not. Being the dust of the feet of all is still an attribute, it is a something. It is a vestige of ego. The gurmukh chooses this attribute from the khazana of naam to benefit humankind. I agree the naam is beyond ego and personality, but the jeevan mukt is one who has a connection with naam, he is perfected in that he can choose his ego or personality. He is a conscious actor, not involved but involved at the same time, for humanities benefit.

I agree there is no difference between a gurmukh and the guru because he knows naam. But this knowledge to be communicated to us has to come through ego to reach us. The big difference is mahapurushes use ego consciously, whereas 99% of us use it unconsciously, we are asleep.

This ties in with naam being every where you see because it all leads back to the khazana of naam, but we are not conscious of this.

"When there is naam the person is roop of the guru and has the guru's personality"

We need to clarify if ego and personality are the same thing. What is the guru's personality? |The guru is nirankar formless beyond sargun nirgun immanent and transcendent. Acquiring this personality would lead to dissolution of mind body and spirit back to its source. Whereas acquiring knowledge of this which i think of as naam means a perfected human being.

Anyway you have made me think for which i am grateful, please post more thoughtful insights, anybody please.

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has no one anything else to say?

shaheediyan is my explanation in accordance with your viewpoint?

do people just like to just argue about stupid things on this forum rather than discuss serious things? Anyway i'm off to masterbate a little bit, may god protect me from evil spirits!

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Namdharis impart Naam via the initiator whispering the Gurmantr into the novice's ear - method which has subsequently been adopted in part by the AKJ. Interestingly, there are other aspects which the AKJ uphold as their 'maryada' which bear strong resemblances to Namdhari practices such as daily washing of Kesh, vegetarianism, sodh ishnaan amongst others.

Fateh Singh can give full "facts" concerning the exact Namdhari practice of imparting Naam.

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kirpa karo, When you refer to giving naam, are you referring to giving Gurmantr (which in mainstream sikhs is given by punj pyare) or are you referring to Naam di daat (that thing that nobody really seems to know a lot about that you get at higher avastha).

btw, gyani thakur singh ji told a friend of mine who was at the avastha to get this to do swas swas simran in gurdwara, and said just keep staring at guru granth sahib ji. when guru ji wants to, he'll give you naam di daat. you'll see light coming from guru ji, or you might see something else. this will be given at guru ji's mauj, could be tomorrow, could be 3 years from now.

fateh singh ji, could you tell us more about this practice?

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kirpa karo: in Granth Sahib it is mentioned: Maneh Pargas Bharam Bhai Naseo Mantar Dio Gur Kaan.

So how can you say that per our Maryada Satguruji does not give Naam? As a matter of fact only Satguruji and certain Sikhs (Usually Subas) are authorized to impart Naam. This Naam is considered to be 'Bhajan' or 'Gurshabad' mentioned in Granth Sahib and as per Verse above, the giver of Naam is considered the person's Bhajan-Guru.

I digress saying anything further as more and more twisted things are turning up every year. Its just like chinese whisper, or whatever that game is called. :lol

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