Lucky

Handing the palla over by the father is the SAME as giving away the daughter as ''father of the bride''
I think we should understand the reasoning of woman walking whilst holding the palla which symbolises the new bond formed by father giving his daughter away.
This has nothing to do with who is dominant and who is who's b**ch.  (is it about a dog on a leash??)
We need some maryada for pre-marriage knowledge to be hammered in to couples. They MUST understand how sacred the lava are and exactly who's jyot merges into whom?
The couple DO NOT merge their jyot into each other in the ceremony and neither is it about 2 souls become ONE. ......It is about 2 souls or 2 jyots MERGING TOGETHER into the ONE AKAL PURAKH JYOT.
TWO souls circumambulating to enter into the ONE-WAHEGURU..
So don't get it mixed up with ceremonies from other faiths where couples join in matrimony whereby GOD is WITNESS. .....because this is clearly not the case in sikhi.
 
Guru Ram Das ji  composed the four lavan and Guru Arjan Dev ji and Mata Ganga ji were the first to be married with this ceremony.
Guruji set the example himself and today we have clever clogs who think they can tamper with the sacred ceremony because they feel they have more equal right concerns than a Sikh Guru.
Are we Sikhs, if we feel we can correct our Gurus ?
 
 
 
 

Listen guys..............Don't give this guest any entertainment of wasting your valuable time. It's the same dhunda clan trolling various forums with aliases.
 
 

There is so much different stuff about colours and lights in meditation that it can get quite confusing.
My own understanding and little conclusions are that all the colours of spectrum will come and go as part of the kundalini process.
The idea is to just let them pass and not stop, or just pass through them as if you are going through different coloured tunnels. Think of Gurmantar as the driving force taking you through and hold on to the this.
If you do this and hold gurmantar, then most of these should pass through quite quickly(days/weeks) but when you get to purple/violet...it should get a little calmer and steady.
 
 

I have been struggling to get to grips with rom rom simran and I always struggled to feel the heart beating within for extended periods of time or strongly enough that I could place my dhyan on it. However last night as I was totally relaxed doing VERY slow sass sass with elongated WaaaahhhhheGuuuuuurrruuuuu internally when I began to really feel the heart pumping. It became so clear I was loving it. At this time I didn't try to synchronise my simran with it, I just wanted to maintain the slowing breathing pace so I could feel the heart beat for an extended period of time and identify what I needed to do breath wise to feel the beat. The key here is definitely very slow consistent inhales and exhales for at least 5 seconds each or longer. It should be so slow and subtle that you can softly feel the air coming in and out through the nostrils.
When I now read Lucky's post again he clearly instructed to breath slowly.

I’m going to have a go explaining my interpretation of Rom Rom Simran. How to get started. This is just one method but with some gurmukhs it can mianifest spontaneously.
It's mentioned quite often in the order of saas graas, saas saas and then rom rom, but very rarely does any mahapursh give any details about it.
I get that impression because it is a very practical technique that involves sukham sareer compared to physical, and I assume that most teachers/mahapursh/sant show and demonstrate to an abyhasee only after he is adept in saas graas and saas saas.
It almost seems as it is kept hush hush and some sant/mahapursh don't reveal to student until x-amount of years have been spent doing the other vidhis/jugtees.
I found that I could get a little information from one place and another little idea from another,,,,, so basically, my interpretation is from gathering the little bits and putting them together from varying sources.
I must stress that as far as I understand it, one should be doing this only when they know how to maintain or get very close to a steadiness and when they are able to get breath balanced (ie,, via sukhmana channel)
Primarily,one has to do more abyhaas to get the nadhis cleansed and stimulated, and when this happens- the sukham sareer properties start coming into play.
I won't go into the vidhies of breath balancing or dhyian control for now,but will give you my understanding and how I've been doing the rom rom simran.
ROM ROM SIMRAN
This is pasanti bhani jap- which is mental,silent and completely from the sukham Mind.
and it is antar ghat (completely internal)
We are using sukham ears and sukham mouth to jap. (ie,,,sukham gyan and karam indries)
It is ALL sukham compared to the Physical breathing manoeuvres/inhalations/tongue use....etc.. in Saas graas & Saas saas
However, there is the beginning aspect of trying to feel the pulse or heartbeat, that is classed as physical. But once you master this, then it all becomes sukham.
A little point I would like to make is about some confusion for matching breathing with heartbeat - which can no doubt lead to hyperventilation
I really don't think that you should match your breath to heartbeat- since this is ALL sukham. If we start matching physical breath then we are going towards sargun/physical behaviour and hindering progress into sukham.
The way I see it is-
With simran we progress through the jugtees and techniques by gradually making our surti, dhyian and actions, to move from Sargun to Nirgun. So, if our surti can come out and away from the sargun body, then we move away from the grasps of kaal and his maya dominance. Therefore, we need to make surti/dhyian move from Sargun to Nirgun.
(remember- before creation there was just the nirgun shabad and all sargun manifested later. It makes sense to go back home in that reverse order!)
As for the rapid breathing technique that can lead to hyperventilation and hypoxia, I am aware that some keertan sangats practice this, but this is not to be confused with heartbeat & rom rom jugtee, or any other jugtee for that matter.
Hypoxia or oxygen deprivation from rapid hyperventilation can give someone a good feeling of being lightheaded. I have heard how some of these kirtan sangats(akj) claim to have feelings of divine anand from their fast paced kirtan samagams, but this is nothing much different than the 2 minute high that party students get with nitric 'poppers', because of same oxygen starvation effects.
Technique/method
1) 1st quieten and get that steady state where breath is balanced.
2) Try and feel your heart beat by putting the focus into that area
3) If this is difficult, then it may help if-
-a) you hold your breath for a few seconds and then try to locate/listen.
-b) Or you can instead ,try to feel your pulse on the wrist.
4) Once you find the beat and can follow it's beating rhythm, then putting some more dhyian there should make it more louder and prominent.
5) the anhad naad/dhun should also get more prominent if you have it present.
-I usually find that they both get more enhanced at the same time
6) Now, that the heart beating is clear and can be followed, you incorporate and match the gurmantar along with it to begin rom rom.
-this itself can be done in 2 ways
a) you should be able to identify an ''up'' beat and a ''down'' beat.
...then coincide the Wahe-with-Up, and the Guru-with-Down.
OR..
b) when the beat is too fast to differentiate the up/down, then you can match the whole gurmantar with this faster beat. For eg..you are saying waheguru,waheguru,waheguru, without any pause or breaks in wahe-and-guru.
With practice, you should eventually be able to locate the heartbeat without touching or feeling any pulse.
If you HOLD the breath for a few seconds, then this also make it easier to sense.
NEXT, the goal is to put the focus on navel, because when focusing at navel, one can be steady in the sukhmanna channel and trying to rise upwards.
The sukhmanna channel runs directly from navel area towards the nijh ghar. (in a straight line along the path of chakras)
Before we are born and in the womb, this connection is fully active and intune with waheguru. When the umbilical cord is cut and the first birth breath is taken, that's when the veil layers of maya world start their course. You could also say that the knot to maya is tied after cord is cut/breath is taken in atmosphere.
 
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Man re pavan ḏariṛ sukẖman nārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||
It's important to get the steady breath balance before you start rom rom.
This steadiness and control comes when there are no thoughts.
If any thoughts arise, then the breath balancing goes into either side of Ida or Pingala.
That’s why it is called the turbulent ocean (bhavsagar) because we rock from side to side (left to right), or from ida to pingala whilst trying to travel up the nadis and trying to maintain the steadiness in sukhmana throughout.
This 2nd stage of rom rom is to focus around navel area and feel the pulse there which is much more sukham.
The focus, I believe is not directly at the belly button, but you feel the pulse and rom rom vibration just below it and deeper inside.
It is the area called the DHARAN.- which is about 1 inch below and 1 inch inwards.
I often find it a little easier to locate this subtle area compared to the heartbeat sometimes. With practice it should become easier and almost instant.
The vibrations that I feel there can be In and Out and so I use the mental Wahe-in and Guru-out,
OR sometimes they may be going slightly up/down at an angle rather than in/out, but I still use the same method and have noticed that the rate of rom rom vibration is practically the same.
All the jap is done in complete sukham from the mind, and it can help if you do the internal, mental chant with the inner voice being raised with some power behind it. (as if your enforcing your internal chant)
The last check I usually make is to be sure that I am breathing slowly and normally, and not accidentally incorporating the breath into the jap rhythm-which can be very easily done (and then you can end up with the hyperventilating issue explained above). Again, with practice, this will become instant and second nature.
This practice takes you on a whole new quest with both mystical and spiritual experiences, that are individual and personally tailored to each of us. You will know that they can't be discussed openly.
I can seriously understand why it is of great importance to have the right sangat and experienced gurmukh/mahapursh/sant guidance/advisor to assist you along the encounters at this stage. This is probably the reason to why it has the "hush hush'' factor and doesn't get mentioned too often.
Sadly, I'm not in the company of any mahapursh and at certain times I have felt the desperate need to get questions answered.
So far, I seemed to have managed using gurbani, certain info sources, practice and of course, Waheguru's blessings.
 
Using the above practice method should eventually make Rom Rom fully manifest/pargat. There are a few nishanees that can help determine if it's pargat in full or not, but I won't go into those here.
 
 

Just came across the following pangtis relevant to the above video.
Ang 945
"When this heart and body did not exist, where did the mind reside?
jaa ih hirdaa dayh na hotee ta-o man kaithai rahtaa.    
When there was no support of the navel lotus, then in which home did the breath reside?
naabh kamal asthambh na hoto taa pavan kavan ghar sahtaa.    
When there was no form or shape, then how could anyone lovingly focus on the Shabad?
roop na hoto raykh na kaa-ee taa sabad kahaa liv laa-ee.    
When there was no dungeon formed from egg and sperm, who could measure the Lord`s value and extent?
rakat bind kee marhee na hotee mit keemat nahee paa-ee.    
When color, dress and form could not be seen, how could the True Lord be known?"
varan bhaykh asroop na jaapee ki-o kar jaapas saachaa.    
 
O Nanak, those who are attuned to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are detached. Then and now, they see the Truest of the True.
naanak naam ratay bairaagee ib tab saacho saachaa.
When the heart and the body did not exist, O hermit, then the mind resided in the absolute, detached Lord.
hirdaa dayh na hotee a-oDhoo ta-o man sunn rahai bairaagee.    
When there was no support of the lotus of the navel, the breath remained in its own home, attuned to the Lord`s Love.
naabh kamal asthambh na hoto taa nij ghar basta-o pavan anraagee.    
When there was no form or shape or social class, then the Shabad, in its essence, resided in the unmanifest Lord.
roop na raykh-i-aa jaat na hotee ta-o akuleen rahta-o sabad so saar.
When the world and the sky did not even exist, the Light of the Formless Lord filled the three worlds.
ga-un gagan jab tabeh na hota-o taribhavan jot aapay nirankaar.
Ang 946
Color, dress and form were contained in the One Lord; the Shabad was contained in the One, Wondrous Lord.
varan bhaykh asroop so ayko ayko sabad vidaanee.    
Without the True Name, no one can become pure; O Nanak, this is the Unspoken Speech.
saach binaa soochaa ko naahee naanak akath kahaanee.

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

Two words - Absolutely brilliant!

Yea Prof Sahib Singh got it wrong. He got a lot translations wrong.
The english translators copied him and that's why they got it wrong as well.
 
PS Bro it seems you can read punjabi.
Try reading the Freed Kote Teeka (from 1800s Punjab), I think it will be the next step for you.
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&fb=0&k=2

Right now I am in the mood to correct things. So in this 'Botched Translations of Guru Granth Sahib ji' series, I want to highlight shabads, poems from Guru Granth Sahib, that have been translated incorrectly, which give the reader the wrong impression about the belief system of the author or about the message in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

When I read the English translation of Guru Granth Sahib ji. I notice that there are certain mistakes embedded in these translations that are over-looked by most sikhs, who rely on them to make out the meaning of the shabad. These incorrect beliefs then become internalized and lead to incorrect understanding. The incorrect understanding is then propagated in real life and in online forums, it seeps into discussions and the mindset.
 
One of the shabads I see the most, is a botched translation of Sant Kabir ji's shabad, where Kabir ji talks about the importance of your approach to Naam Simran. Do you approach Naam Simran to get something? What is it that you want to get out of it? Bhagat Kabir ji talks about the correct approach to Bhagati. He highlights a distinction in two approaches - the approach of Saint and the approach of Miracle-worker, who may appear similar to those who are unfamiliar.


But what does the English Translation of this shabad say? Something completely unrelated. It is as I say, completely botched.

Botched Translations of Guru Granth Sahib ji  - Part 1
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||
 
Now just read the Gurmukhi -
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā (verb) ek samānā ek (verb). ||191||
 


Notice these 3 things as you read the Gurmukhi.
1. It does not say "Son of Dashrath" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.
2. It does not say "Only to speak of all-pervading lord" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.
3. It does not say "pervading everywhere" or "contained only in himself" anywhere in the Gurmukhi, nor is it implied.

The English translation is mistranslated and is used to misrepresent this shabad.

This is not what Sant Kabir ji is talking about and these are not the views he holds. This is not what Guru Granth Sahib ji is talking about either, and this mistranslated  shabad is used to misrepresent the Guru.


So the big question -
What is this shabad actually talking about?
 
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
कबीर राम कहन महि भेदु है ता महि एकु बिचारु ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabir says there is a difference in how one says "Ram", let me share one thought.

So now he mentions Kautakahar. Kautakhar are those people who perform miracles to entertain. Kabir ji is saying -

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
सोई रामु सभै कहहि सोई कउतकहार ॥१९०॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
All (saints) say "Ram" and so do the ka▫uṯakhār, those who perform miracles or entertain.
(i.e. the saints chant Ram because they have Prem/love for Ram. The kautakhar chant Ram to obtain ridhi sidhi, power to perform miracles, which they will show off. The latter have Prem for ridhi sidhi not Ram.)

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
कबीर रामै राम कहु कहिबे माहि बिबेक ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabir says do say "Ram" but in saying it recognize this difference/ this thought (bibek).

The difference is in intention!
ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
एकु अनेकहि मिलि गइआ एक समाना एक ॥१९१॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā (verb) ek samānā ek (verb). ||191||
That one merged in the many, and the other one merged in the One.
"pervading everywhere" (noun) or "contained only in himself" (noun) are incorrect translations of these Verbs.
ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ - is a verb, it's the act of doing ie. merging
ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ - is a verb, it's an act of doing ie. merging
That those who were after the power to perform miracles merged with (verb) those powers, meaning they never achieved mukti. But those (saints) who were after Ram merged with Him, the One (verb).
They are both doing Bhagati but their intentions are worlds apart, this is what Kabir is talking about in this shabad. The bibek you need to have to do Bhagati matters as it ultimately determines what result you get.


Why does Bhagat Kabir ji feel the need to point this out?

Since both Saints and Miracle-Workers can do kautaks, miracles, to the unfamiliar eye it might appear that they are the same. To new student of meditation, it might appear that meditation should be done to achieve these miraculous powers. They might think that it is miraculous powers that makes one into a Saint.

Sant Kabir ji guides his sikhs and tells them. There is a difference that must be recognized. The Saints are into Naam Simran, meditation, for Ram. The miracle-workers, kautakhars, are into Naam Simran for Kautaks.

He says that those who are in it for Ram, merge with Ram, and those who are in it for miracles, merge with the many miracles.

Bhagat Kabir ji is encouraging his sikhs to be in it for Ram.

So you see now what Bhagat Kabir ji is talking about? He's talking about differences in goals and aims, differences in intentions and purpose. And this is absolutely clear if you just read the Gurmukhi.

Just let that sink in. Bhagat Kabir ji is talking about aims and intentions.
 

It doesn't say the word Saint in the Gurmukhi, either. Where are you getting that from?
As you can clearly see, I wrote it as "(saints)"; I put it in brackets in my translation.

So I know it doesn't say "saints" in the Gurmukhi.
However it really is talking about saints even though Kabir doesn't use the word "saint". This is because in the very last tuk, he says that these "people" merge into the One, into Ram. Since they merged into the One, they can be called saints. 

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
"That one have merged in the many, and one have merged in the One."
One has become engrossed in the many kautaks/miracles, and the other one has merged into the One. Since the other one merged into the one, he can be called a saint.

Again, Kabir ji's point is this -
We know that Saints can also do miracles. We know that Kautakhars can also do miracles.
So the naturally the question gets asked - Is there a difference? If so, what is the difference between the two groups?
The entire shabad addresses this question.
Kabir ji answers that the Saints meditate on Ram out of pure love. Where as Kautakhars, meditate on Ram to gain ability to show kautak. And this difference is important to recognize because it ultimately leads to those goals. It has to be kept in mind while chanting "Ram, Ram".
If your goal is to achieve powers, then that's all you will get (ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ) .
If your goal is to get Ram, then that's who you will get (ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ) .
So here's same translation using different words. I won't use the word saint in brackets and you'll see that the meaning is the same.

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
Kabir says there is a distinction in saying "Ram", let me share this notion.

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
That "Ram" everyone chants, that "Ram" the ka▫uṯakhār also chant.
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabir says definitely say "Ram, Ram" but in saying it recognize the distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
That one group, the kautakhars, has become engrossed in the many powers, and the other group has merged with the One (with Ram).
 
 
It says ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ. Doesn't ਰਾਮੈ mean "all-pervading"? Isn't it an adjective?
That wouldn't change the meaning I posted because that's what Ram means but when we are translating from Gurmukhi, we have to stick to the words.
ਰਾਮੈ is not an adjective.  ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ. They are both the same name.

For example, Kabir ji says -
ਮੁਆ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਰਮਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮੈ ॥੫॥੧੫॥
I died meditating on "Shri Ram"

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ . In another example, Kabir ji says
ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਮਤ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੪॥
Chanting "Ram, Ram" one attains peace.
ਰਮਤ means to permeate ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ/Ram, Ram

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ
In this example, Guru Sahib says -
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਬਸਾਈ ॥ ਅਸਥਿਰੁ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਜਾਈ ॥੪॥
Through the Guru's teachings, those who have enshrined "Ram Naam" (the name of Ram) in their hearts, they becomes Asthir, permanent, ie they become free of births and deaths.

ਰਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਰਾਮ. Just like how ਨਾਮੈ is the same thing as ਨਾਮਾ (Namdev ji's nickname)
ਜਨ ਨਾਮੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਨਿਆ ॥੩॥੩॥
Servant Namdev (ਨਾਮੈ) has recognized reality.


So keep those examples in mind and read the tuk again -
ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabir ji says, do chant "Ram, Ram", and have this bibek while chanting.
 
 
But does Bhagat Kabir ji make any distinction between Ram and Ram in another shabad?

Bhagat Kabir ji makes absolutely no distinction. To Kabir ji they are the same.
Bhagat Kabir ji in his other shabads refers to Shri Ram, Son of Dashrath, as the Archer, Purushotam, the Leader of Raghu Dynasty, amongst His other epithets.
This is a big, multi-faceted discussion.

Even now I'm aware it's there as taste sense is constantly active and aware. Going to get my doctor to run some blood tests just to rule out diabetes as sweet mouth and hair loss can sometimes be associated with this. I hope it's not relating to anything medical but best to just rule things out, after which just accept as grace and let whatever it is fulfill its purpose.
Pleased to read yesterday that Maskeen ji also experienced and documented it.
When I  questioned a few people about it they said accept it humbly and just swallow. Some got quite annoyed that I was complaining. Some abhiyasis make great efforts to experience it and because it came out of the blue relatively quickly to me I was seen to being unappreciative. In the early days I really struggled to cope and I told a mahapursh I can't handle it and I didn't want it anymore. After repeatedly being told to drink and me foolishly countering them with it's too sweet, there was a look of disgust and they said fine it will go away over time. I don't know what hurt me more, the disappointment they had in me for even complaining or maybe I didn't know what I was requesting. For months after that I lost it and it dawned on me that I had screwed up, but was relieved for a break from the sensation for a while. Over time I began to regret more and more that maybe in my ignorance I had put a road block in my own spiritual journey.
It came back again occasionally but never for long durations like before.
Lucky is spot on about it not always coming directly from simran but any focused religious task, like reading Gurbani or other religious texts.
After putting in some hard effort over a week ago its back and this time it is not showing any signs of stopping. Oh Balle Balle!!! Doing a little mental dance. Kind of pleased to have it back this time. Acts as a form of encouragement I'm moving again.

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

Good stuff guys!
I also think that there are more tastes of amrit....It starts with saas saas simran and then you get advanced one like Kabir jI's shabad that comes directly from higher chakras.
Gurbani mentions 36 different tastes
ਛਤੀਹ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਾਉ ਏਕੁ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥੧॥
Cẖẖaṯīh amriṯ bẖā▫o ek jā ka▫o naḏar kare▫i. ||1||
The thirty-six flavors of ambrosial nectar are in the Love of the One Lord; they are tasted only by one who is blessed by His Glance of Grace.
The 2nd one (as mentioned above) ... is somewhat immediate, different  but not more intense....(you can't quantify it..it's not at all like saying -one is like one sugar spoon and the other is like 10 spoons)
It was Sat that told me about the jugtee of how to get the 2nd one by focusing dhyaan on naad and raising it high....
The key difference that I found was that
1) you actually had control, in the sense you could activate at will,.. once your consciousness and surti was elevated to that level..
there are many references in gurbani about drinking amrit, but if we look at this one, again by Guru Nanak ji...

ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
Ūpar kūp gagan panihārī amriṯ pīvaṇhārā.
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it in
Doing a little deeper vichaar, it tells me that there is an amrit in a well,..which in context is saying there is a specifc spot where one can GO to and drink the amrit at will.
To me personally, this is reference to the jugtee briefly mentioned.
 
2) I also found that at times, all I had to do was just hear some gurbani or kirtan and then it would be immediate...To me, this was a major explanation of why gurbani is called 'Amrit Bani'...
I haven't been at that elevated level recently, but  we have to wash,, wash,,wash...wash.... our filth with that amrit.
Amrit is part of the journey and we all have that filth.... So go on Bhagat...get that washing !! lol......Prabh is blessing you with the opportunity.
When it happens,,...you definitely do start doubting yourself and thinking if it's just imagination.....I even got to a stage where I thought the tasting was happening every time I hear some music . so what I did was...listened to other music and to see if it activated or not...AND it didn't....ONLY with gurbani and gurmantar jap.
Therefore, my conclusion of ''amrit bani' was even stronger.
And for those on the forum that doubt dasam bani--->>Quite simply, you can ALL find out for yourself what bani is amrit bani and what is kachi.
 
 
 

​oh no!!!!....don't start that one again :)

Hoping that Sat and family continue receiving Guru's blessings, I shall continue a little with the wonderful and inspirational thread that Sat has contributed so much to.
Sat has truly been a major core of my personal sadh sangat to inspire me to continue with more devotion.
Waheguru



I have been doing simran very deeply at times for the last few weeks. I have had this same sensation of jap entering the heart along with some other encounters.
When it first happened, I got a little scared thinking that i had consumed too much coffee or some unknown stimulant, but then I suddenly remembered this description in this earlier post.

It all started when one early morning at amrit vela, I went into very deep silent jaap rapidly. This was helped because even before i had started and was composing myself physically, I had already made my mind quite 'steady'. This steadiness quickly induced the Anhad naad at a much clearer and louder tone than usual which prompted me to go into silent jap immediately. I then found myself in this void of bliss and completely immersed into it whilst being fully aware and lost in it, at the same time !
I should also mention that i remember thinking that my breathing and chest movements had slowed down dramatically with me taking longer breaths but with much less lung capacity at use ?

I thought to myself that this must be some level of samadhi where there were absolutely no thoughts that I was letting my mind follow. I kept going into this deep depth for a few minutes at a time and then realised that i had been doing it for nearly an hour. (it was about 3.30am now!)
Anyway, that very early morning, I was so in love with what i had experienced that I couldn't even go back to sleep for the usual couple of hours that I normally do.
It felt so familiar, as if my jeev knew all along exactly what it was and yet it seemed so new at the same time as well !
I ended up doing jaap non stop until around 7am and I thought i may be quite tired, but i was full of energy instead.

After doing this for a few days then, one morning i started to feel the presence of the anhad naad very central in my head, compared to my right side up until now.
Then at the same time when i thought that my breath would get shallow, my heart started pumping from real deep within. It seemed be in rhythm with a vibration where i could feel the naad, and all i had to do was synchronize the jap along with it just as Sat pointed out above.

This immense feeling of jap in the hirda can only be described as another sensation of spiritual ecstasy. It reminded me of that feeling of joy you get as a kid when you receive a present or toy that was the best toy you could ever wish for........(Hope you understand what i mean !)
But as a kid with a toy, this feeling lasts just a very short while, whereas this was being made continuous with the jaap.gave me

In all honesty, it gave me an even more clearer explanation of ''Sachiya sahiba kya nahin ghar tere...........vaajay shabad ganairy'

I'm not sure if Sat noticed, but because I have had these experiences just after 2.30 am or so...I find that again, I am full of energy and adrenaline.
I have gone with just 4 hours sleep most nights but i still don't experience the tiredness in the day !
It's been a good few weeks of progress for me, but i have also encountered some of the obstacles you face along the way.



I know i mentioned in an earlier post that i was finding it difficult to just listen to jaap and naad because i had been so accustomed to focusing on the trikuti.
Now, i have actually stopped worrying abut that and continue to focus on trikuti as well as jaap and naad. I find this is easier because even in my kundalini yoga, I don't think I can experience the transcendent joy of heightened spirituality without the 3rd eye focus.-It's funny because sometimes you see your instructor demonstrating and showing you something and you think it's no big deal until you actually do it as prescribed whilst focusing on your 3rd eye. There are countless times that i do this and think to myself ''wow!..that's what it was about '' !
Therefore, with my current experience, I think that i should continue this way but I am also aware that I am more susceptible to distracting obstacles of visions and what have you along the way.

I know some months back, I had some preconceived and mixed ideas of what anhad naad should be or will be once you hear them. And this was due to some of the confusing and not so straightforward references that i had come across. I hope that we can all help each other learn and develop by doing this with devotion and discussing appropriately.
All the members on here have been the best listeners where i can feel comfortable talking about my personal spiritual progress and encounters. I hope we can all continue to share and learn in this manner. Once again, a big thank you to Sat for giving me this extra inspiration and reassurance.

Waheguru

khalsa Jee,
I've read about it somewhere might be in autobiography of bhai sahib.But not sure about source .But I 've read that bhai sahib and Sawan singh were good friends.Where the provided source claims that sawan singh was not a spiritual person?
Even it proves that they both knew each other very well.
So,twisting some words to prove whatever you want is really not task of pride.
I'm not a Radhaswami nor do I'm taking their side.But I've read some books of Sawan singh where I've found that he was really a spiritual person.
So Never do nindya of any one even in anjaan puna.
Gur fateh!

First of all, I'm NOT a follower of Radhaswami.
It's very irresponsible paapiman. Did you listen to the video clip you've posted?
"Sawan Grewal" name is nowhere mentioned in the clip; so how you got this name? It's really very sad and shameful on your part; one should NOT post any anything online without verifying the facts.
"Sawan Singh Grewal (1858–1948)" was one of the first person who settled in Beas. He was opposed to the formation of separate Mat named as Radhasoami; The Radhasoami name originated from Agra circle.
I'm NOT saying that someone somewhere under somebrand cannot do as claimed in the video but that does NOT mean that you can pull everyone under the same umbrella. There are some cracks who are doing that.
At this present times, there are many many cases where the person belonged to previous Rara-Sahib samparda, Nanaksar samparda but they are indulged in Ego-ist behaviours; some are even continuing the samparda for the money things. Does it mean that you can drag the real Saints under the same tag? It always happen that the real sampardas/groups preach something but later on those teachings are packed in box and sold. So, then who is the culprit? Think about it.
There is NO problem in pointing out the real issues, but these days youth with this internet are so careless that they do not care about the real truth. They just post whatever based upon their very limited point of view and without really looking for the truth.
Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib wale used to say that the Nindea is defined as: Spreading the news for which you did not know if it is true or not (i.e which you have not heard/seen with your own ears/eyes).

Gyani ji tells the account of when naamdev was asked to jap allah instead of ram ram.
Remember that before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji   a mantra was something given to the sevak by his ustad or guru-->that's why it is called GURu-Mantra
So, this was Namdev's response,.....that he is going to jap what was INSTRUCTED by his guru, to him, at the time ---->Gyani ji clarifies that this doesn't mean allah or any other name is not on par with your own mantar,,Because for the sevak who wants to get brahmgyan,..he must jap what is instructed by his teacher Guru(gurmantra).
 
Don't get confused that gur-mantra always means 'waheguru', .....No,... only for Sikhs and as per Bhai Gurdas ji's vaaran referencing Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji(Guru), is our gurmantra 'waheguru'.
 

The above mentioned Shabad is neither referring to eclipse nor is referring to Heart chakra. Here is the full shabad:

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥
ਅੰਤਰਿ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਬਦਿ  ਮਨੁ  ਮਾਨਿਆ  ਅਵਰੁ  ਨ  ਰਾਂਗਨਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ  ਜੀਆ  ਦੇਖਿ  ਸਮਾਲੇ  ਤਿਸ  ਹੀ  ਕੀ  ਸਰਕਾਰਾ  ॥੧॥
ਮੇਰਾ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਰਾਂਗਿ  ਘਣੌ  ਅਤਿ  ਰੂੜੌ  ॥
ਦੀਨ  ਦਇਆਲੁ  ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ  ਮਨਮੋਹਨੁ  ਅਤਿ  ਰਸ  ਲਾਲ  ਸਗੂੜੌ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
ਊਪਰਿ  ਕੂਪੁ  ਗਗਨ  ਪਨਿਹਾਰੀ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰਾ  ॥
ਜਿਸ  ਕੀ  ਰਚਨਾ  ਸੋ  ਬਿਧਿ  ਜਾਣੈ  ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਗਿਆਨੁ  ਵੀਚਾਰਾ  ॥੨॥
ਪਸਰੀ  ਕਿਰਣਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਕਮਲ  ਬਿਗਾਸੇ  ਸਸਿ  ਘਰਿ  ਸੂਰੁ  ਸਮਾਇਆ  ॥
ਕਾਲੁ  ਬਿਧੁੰਸਿ  ਮਨਸਾ  ਮਨਿ  ਮਾਰੀ  ਗੁਰ  ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਪਾਇਆ  ॥੩॥
ਅਤਿ  ਰਸਿ  ਰੰਗਿ  ਚਲੂਲੈ  ਰਾਤੀ  ਦੂਜਾ  ਰੰਗੁ  ਨ  ਕੋਈ  ॥
ਨਾਨਕ  ਰਸਨਿ  ਰਸਾਏ  ਰਾਤੇ  ਰਵਿ  ਰਹਿਆ  ਪ੍ਰਭੁ  ਸੋਈ  ॥੪॥੧੫॥
The shabad is referring to the process when "The Shabad" permanently resides in the Mind, then one tastes the real Amrit stored in the Crown Chakra. In other words, it is suggesting the last point in the journey to be outside of Time and Space. Crown Chakra is also known as the place of 1000 Suns which is so strong yet so calming that it (the light/ray) overtakes everything. The shabad has nowhere mentioned the Heart Chakra or Eclipse.
Moreover, in reality Astronomy and Astrology are exactly the same Science (Macro/Micro/Effects) but recenty (around 16-17th century) when people started accepting more materialistic views, this Science was broken into 2 different streams: Astrology and Astronomy. It's the same way, these days there are Specialist Doctors for each organ and they just worry about their particular organ; they do NOT understand that each and every cell in this body is interrelated and interlinked and work as ONE BIG SYSTEM.
Moreover, here are some clues to the play of 3 gunas and 5 elements in Space and Time:
Seven is a clue for everything that happens in Time. 7 comes from 3+4 (3 gunas + 4 elements). i.e 7 Traditional planets; 7 Major Chakras; 7 Rishis, and so on. Twelve is a clue for all things that co-exist in space. 12 comes from 3*4 (play of 3 gunas with 4 basic elements in Space). These are the twelve basic points with which everything in space is connected. It is possible to find the right way by connecting the spatial relationship of everything that occurs upon the earth with twelve permanent points in space — the twelve signs of the Zodiac in the cosmos. And there is always certain relation between the numbers Seven and Twelve, and that this relation has something to do with time and space. Time is revealed according to the number Twelve. The above mentioned points are the core of Astrology. It's very easy to say but very hard to understand the play of 12*7=84.
But at last, let me warm you that there are VERY RARE astrologers who fully understand Astrology and Astronomy in real sense but at the same time it does NOT mean that Sikhism is against Astrology. But do NOT try to find paid astrologers and do NOT try to look in Guru Granth Sahib Ji with the intention to find the reference to astrology and then proving that it is accepted in Sikhism. As I always say, this world is never Black-and-White.
Rudolf Steiner has said this perfectly: "Humanity, is intimately connected to cosmic beings, who in turn are related to planets and stars. There is meaning in the cosmos." He rejected the Simplistic notion of the planets determining our lives and behaviour, he shows that as individuals, and with the guidance of spiritual beings, we choose an appropriate time of birth to match the destiny we are to live.
In other words, when we reduce the systems (create Simplistic views separate from another system), then we are bound to fail and this is what is happening with Astrology these days (so-called Zodiac readings).
 

The shabad above is very deeply mystical.
One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash...
You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??..
-Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it..
The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology.
I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either!
I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time.
One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open.  ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic,  however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor.
Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways.
Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality.
While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on.
 
Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani  tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa.
Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries...
The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc..
There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!
But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani..
To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.
 
 

The shabad above is very deeply mystical.
One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash...
You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??..
-Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it..
The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology.
I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either!
I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time.
One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open.  ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic,  however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor.
Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways.
Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality.
While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on.
 
Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani  tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa.
Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries...
The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc..
There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!
But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani..
To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.
 
 

The shabad above is very deeply mystical.
One will ONLY understand it completely in its entirety..after they have experienced Waheguru themselves...ie, when the dasam duar opens and Waheguru opens the door to nijh mahal. -->>waheguru darshan...waheguru parkash...
You can look around and search for the arths, but they will mostly all be diverting from the truth in one way or the other...........Why do I say that ??..
-Because quite simply, when one experiences the whole Sach and the whole Truth.-->then there is no right or wrong way to describe it..
The shabad is purely esoteric and is not about astrology.
I would be surprised to see some arths that would cover more than 65% of the abyaas practice it refers to..because those who have experienced the 100%, would be unable to put it in words...............And like I said,..there can't be no wrong arth or a right one either!
I can give you a few pointers from yoga.....left eye/right eye.,,.left side/right side...ida/pingala... are represented by Moon and Sun. But also in Gurbani,,..depending on the shabad's context, the Sun represents heat and agan which is lower part of body, whereas the cooler moon is head upwards....our poison(bikh) from our doing becomes manifest lower down and the cooling amrit from the top completely eradicates it and changes it into rays of light emerging instead....Some of this is what Guru Nanak iji is pointing at in the shabad.,,,,but he is also describing his jyot being completely immersed in waheguru. at the same time.
One can only get their surti to rise all the way up to dasam duar, when the central nadi-the 'Sukhmana', is fully open.  ...This only opens when the surti from left and right side becomes central... That is just the basic,  however,..it is hard enough!....then follow much more efforts where one has to keep the jeevan jach in line with walking away from duality.................But that's not all,...because many self conflicts inside yourself between your own ego and atma..etc..also have to be addressed and dealt with....and this becomes an ongong battle with the 5 chor.
Sun into moon is also about going into that line in the middle of duality. We have to remember that one can not attain waheguru darshan by technique alone..The Sikh has to Transform into Gurmukh....The simran automatically starts to do this in many unbelievable ways.
Duality has to be conquered towards becoming advait(non-dual).............But you can never become completely advait until you get immersed in the Satch-in totality.
While in maya world, a Sikh has to walk on that very very thin line in the middle of duality--->which is why dasam patshah gave and showed us the double edged khanda and it's very sharp cutting edge-->>which defines the razor thin line that the Sikh treads on.
 
Das's post above is very good. Astrology is itself a study of the astronomy on our own selves......Gurbani  tells you in many places that the whole universe and it's master(GOBIND)..is within your own body. This then means that what we do inside us, will also affect the world and universe outside,...and vice versa.
Das made some interesting points about our body correlations with the whole cosmos...and some of them I hadn't given much though previously, but there is also significance of 5 digits on each side of our body on hands and feet....the 5 senses. the karam indries..the gyan indries...
The 4 fingers with 3 phalanges each(4x3=12 again)...and there is also the same kind of miri-piri aspects with having a pair of each which represent duality of physical/spiritual...destined/karmic....etc..
There must be so much more,...and I've only just picked the above up here and there and with my own experiences-->conclusions.......but like Das says,, it's very difficult to find an astrologer who is close to the truth in reality because they wouldn't be charging the money!
But I also repeat the same ....about not getting tied up trying to find astrological conclusions in gurbani..
To be honest, you have to find them yourself by going inside and having an internal dialogue with yourself. This way you also find that it helps your simran, because one big drawback in meditation is we sit down and the internal dialogue starts instead of jap. Therefore, try and do as much internal dialogue throughout the day and arrive at the conclusions as well,..as it will help you become more humble as well...But the main point is that in this way, you will have more free dhyan freed up to help put focus on gurmantar.
 
 

Command should be followed , yes... but there are many pointers in gurbani of when one is saved from the jamdhoots coming to get him/her.
There are many stages after one gets naam and start doing serious naam kamayee... It is also been known that the Guru's sevak will witness jamdoots running away from him when he is in some physical vicinity of these dark souls !..