chatanga1

Brothers and sisters, it's been a long time since I last visited. I think I must be the worst active participant on this forum lol.
I am posting an excerpt from a book I have been reading and would like your views on the paragraph please. I wont share the book title or author yet though.
Thanks!
 

No way! Teji Malik is Ripudaman Singh's brother? I would never have guessed that.

in the oldest text of sikh history by Khazan Singh written around 1910, it mentions goats being killed, but i have not read it in any older texts.

Also another traditional episode is that of Uch da pir, where most believe that Guru Ji himself was disguised as the Pir, whereas i have heard some preachers and one or two older sources say it was Pyara Bhai Daya Singh ji disguised as the pir.

this was the stance of the congress initially, because primarily, it was what the british had said would be best for india, which is why jinnah was originally with congress, but over time jinnah became convinced that nehru was only paying lip-service to this federal system, and became disillusioned with nehru and congress, upto the point where he was adamant that pakistan-hindustan was the only solution.

nehru had no intention of committing india to a federal system, basically because he was powerhungry, who beleived that only he had the right answers. if nehru had not driven away jinnah, india's and the sikh's future would have been different.

Kard is basically what we call kirpan today, and kirpan used to be what we call talwar today.

Rubbish! I was kesadhari for 17 years before I took amrit, and i would never hesitate to ask any shop/butchers if their meat was halal.

On some occasions, it was, and i said thank you and left the premises.

Dont jump to conclusions about meat-eaters. That is a very common trait of veggie warriors, to think that just cos we dont beleive in Gurmat as a vaishnav panth, that we must be totally devoid of compassion or even worse morals.

Dont make that mistake ever again DSG.

dalsinghji, i saw in wolverhampton town centre muslims doing the same parchaar thing. after seeing this, i asked a few sikhs, why dont we do the same but start off in Sikh majority areas, like Blakenhall etc, so we are targeting Sikhs, more than non-Sikhs to begin with. They all shit themselves.

OK, lets look at that as a starting point. The existing Sikh community in Pakistan. If us western sikhs were to match or exceed the pakistani sikhs' present income, they would be in more of a position to move. But lets say if there are about 200 gurdwaras that need a caretaker family to look after it, would you be able to find so many families willing to re-locate to another part of the country? and bearing in mind that some NWFP sikhs are pashtu speakers only, how would they cope in panjab? maybe if they knew urdu possibly.

The sehajdhari sindhis are taking amrit in very very small numbers. their active participation would probably be a semi-long-term solution. But could they take of the gurdwaras as Sehajdhari Sikhs as well?


You are absolutely right in that normal gurdwaras should nbot be our priority, especailly in the west, and even in panjab for that matter.

No thoughts people?


What about restoring Gurdwaras as places of historical interest only then? The buildings were restored but not functioning as Gurdwaras?

LIke in UK how castles and stately homes are restored but belong to the Heritage Trust. They are not in use much, castles especially but essential to maintain from a historical point.

Would you be happy, or even happier if this were to happen, than the present situation of the Pakistani Gurdwaras?

saw an interview of her on youtube.

didnt think much of and theres no way im gonna spend £30 on her book.

i'll wait till amazon has it at a penny.

Bhaji I am very serious about this. I simply cannot sit by and watch the disappearance of my Guru's House. If you want we can talk over skype about anything we can do to further this cause.




I understand Bhaji, with all the things going on in our Panth at the moment, people are very reluctant to get involved in something as complicated as this.







Re Zia and the Sikhs.


In 1947, after the creation of Pakistan it was agreed that a 30 member Sikh team could stay in Nankana Sahib and look after the GUrdwaras. After the Indo-PAk was of 1965, to get back at the Sikhs and India, this number was reduced to 16, and after the 1971 war, this number was whittled down to 2. All the other Sikhs had to relocate to India.

After when the relations began to normalise, the Sgpc approached zia with the request to allow Sikh caretakers back into Pakistan. He refused, but gave an assurance that Pakistani Sikhs would be allowed to take care of the Gurdwaras instead with Pak Givt support.

This was way before PGPC came into being.

Im not sure if you know, but the PGPC came into being after SIkhs from the western world and some indian sikhs were angry at the way the SGPC were taking all the gohlak money back to india, whilst pakistan gurdwaras needed severe financial aid. There was a actual fight one year, where the Sikhs tried to prevent the SGPC from taking the money, but in the end to preserve the peace and the outlook of Sikhs amongst the Pakistanis, the Sikhs backed down.


Instead they made preparations for the PGPC to come into being, although it was only to have a limited lifespan. I think it was around 6 years or something, whilst this gave the body time to repair the Gurdawaras in Pakistan. The Pak Govt has given millions to repair the main 5 or 6 gurdwaras that yatrees go to every year. The rest remain as they are.

Sham Singh, the 1st head of the PGPC was actually brought up as a muslim. He was born a Sikh, but was left behind in 1947, and bought up as a muslim, although when he was later told about this, he came back to the Sikh path. The SGPC tried to portay him as an ISI operative.

As far as I know the PGPC is no longer operating or the custodians of the gurdwaras. Or if it is, not on the scale it once was.

they came mainly to fill the shortfall in manual labour dalsingh ji. whereas the sikhs who went to the US, went to set up their own businesses etc. manysikh farmers in the US in Yuba City i think.

best to stick to pork, that way you know it wont be halal.

this agreement between the brits and the russians created the artifical boundaries of todays afghanistan, lumping tajiks and uzbeks with the pashtuns.

@dalsingh101 Dal thats a bit hard to read. Have you got a clearer copy at all?
 
I was listening to katha of Panth Prakash, and in it, Bhangu has written that the Dal Panth had no qualms in looting invaders, or the moghal government. In fact they looked upon it as honourable enterprise.
 
I don't know. What SS sources tell thi story?
 

Not disputed.
 
It also succeeded in driving the Sikhs out of Bari Doab into Jalandhar and Malwa.
 
I can't see him being embarrassed by it a great deal. Infuriated, yes.
 
Yes, so his own masters were slaves. This pushes even further down the scale of power-holders.
 
Actually ZK had already been defeated in battle by Nadir outside Lahore, after which he (ZK) offered his submission to Nadir. Nadir then moved onto Delhi. The partial destruction of Panjab moghal happened before the near-annihilation of Delhi moghal rule.
 
I don't think that Nadir cared too much about it to be honest. Nadir was more concerned with carrying his loot back to Persia, and I would say was more annoyed that a band of rebels had taken from him, what imperial armies what afraid to take. He destroyed the Moghal army, only to be attacked by rebels living in the most meagre conditions.
 
About what?
 
I think that Sikhs did rescue and free captives in their attacks on Nadir (and also Abdali). I can't see the Sikhs as having just attacked Nadir's army to take wealth and leave the captives there.  However at this time, we can also say that ZK/Lakhpat also did get some captives released.
 

this is about the young generation not coming to the gurdwara.



maybe, but theirs is a koran-centric effort (with a little bit of juttiya). For them museums and such are a side-line. we have a gurbani-centric education program (which is the norm) and have to look to sideline pursuits eg football, museums to get them even thinking about gurbani.

and thats helping the young generation come to the Gurdwara?

Are you out of your admin mind?
You have forgotten the standard this sikh khoj lowered the forum to, last time he was here? The relief at his participation ending here? He hasn't changed and and your invitation is not shared by me. I would be as bold to say others don't share it either.
Remember how he portrayed the the role of the poets in Sri CharitroPakhyan Granth falsely? And gave the idea of false representation to his fanclub and her sharing the lies on facebook?
Look at facebook group i have inboxed you. He is part of the misinformation.
Don't add more trouble to the forum . We already have one deviant here as it is.

or which may make 1 mind instinctively gravitate towards stupid comments. and lead jats to ask, where does the tarkhan tongue gravitate towards? Hindu arses?

Definitely Bach Ke.

Capitalsim doesnt say to girls to sell themselves. capitalism is about economic self-suffiency first, secondly expansion, and thirdly domination.

there is nothing in that to suggest that women are third-rate or open to exploitation.

Low IQ. Accepted. I have never been a brainbox.

Defend arse-licking and celebratint it? No. There is a difference between recognising arse-licking and what you say. You have the high IQ. Work it out.








It was also one of "my" own that fought against the attack, whereas it was one of our "picture-frame" making brothers, who being the President of India, gave the green light for the attack. It was also this same "picture-frame" making brother who said he," blindly followed indira gandhi, and would sweep the floors of her house, if asked..."

so we can safely without prejudice, say that all of the wood-fashioning brothers are parasites on the unholy arse of the hindus. It's so easy to say it isn't it?





Whereas our "picture-frame" making brothers,have used their high IQ's to carry on this apartheid in the Gurdwaras. Yes, I have experienced this personally, being asked to leave "their" Gurdwara, of our "picture-frame" making brothers, unless i told them what my surname was.

The losers.


and our "picture-frame" making brothers, who dont hesitate to cut down trees, thus harming the environment, in other ways that are not so apparent.



SGPC is little to do with Jats. It has always been controlled by Khatris largely. Whereas deras, who cares?


I dont know, you haven't convinced me otherwise yet. But waffling on about "jats" and such, what have you proved yourself to be? Hypocritical? Silly? or someone with an agenda? That is what is lame.


Ok, dally. Try to face up to your own hypocrisy as well. Your denial is causing some rifts here.

Dont get me wrong, i didnt bring ass-kissing into this topic. But my constant referal is to the point that dally can automatically assume all jats as ass-kissers, but where the desk-makers are concerned, just because he personally doesnt kiss ass, the rest of the desk-makers dont.

im not trying to say anything about britannia or americana. just that in this topic, dally is behaving a hypocrit at best, a conceited self-pompous prat at worst.

Did the brits ever have any afghan brigades in their army?

And where would they find these afghans? There are no afghan only mosques in the uk where they could find them, and the afghans are notorious for double-dealing anyway.

The brits still have faith in the gurkhas moreso, then some, although maybe nostalgic now, in the Sikhs, and next-to-nothing in the afghans.




What about dally and the rest of our desk-making brothers? They are the current parasites on an unholy hindu arse, but yet, unbelievably, they look to 150 years ago, to point fingers, rather than to look into the mirror. Why are they unable to learn from the mistakes of the hordes?

They cant be thick, because each and every one of them is dally. It must be their mentality. You know, like, ghulam mentality.

They are well-pleased with their stature on the unholy hindu arse, what does that tell you about the current state of the Sikh people?

Why dont you face up to it dally, the hindus have done a good number on our desk-making brothers. why still act like you, by which we can all understand to mean the whole of the desk-making brothers, havent been mugged off?

dally: " I don't see any other Sikhs, be they 'cabinet makers' or any others crawling en mass up Hindu arses like you see with the peasantry - i mean they even let whites from the military bowl around their Gurdwaras like they were recruiting grounds which says it all........talk about selling your soul. "



Why would you see it? You are smart and sophisticated. A right brain-box. How could someone as intelligent as you see it? You dont do it yourself, so automatically neither do any of our charpoy-leg making brothers. Big up yourself.

The whites bowl around the Gurdwaras for good reason, that Sikhs proved themselves as good soldiers, time and time again.