BhagatSingh

Why does it matter?

You mean Dhanna ji?

In one Shabad of Bhagat Naamdev he asks for a beautiful wife, strong horse, house etc. Nothing wrong in asking for physical things 

“She is the most beautiful among women who loves the Guru and wears this jewel on her forehead.”
– Guru Nanak Dev ji (Guru Granth Sahib, 54)
 

Get Prints here - http://www.sikhiart.com/product/mai-bhago-ji-second-edition/
Artist's Notes
Mai Bhago ji, Mother Bhago, sought after Guru Gobind Singh ji’s blessings to have a son. But while travelling to Guru ji, she was distressed to hear that a group of 40 Singhs had deserted him during the Battle of Anandpur.
She rode to their gathering, made them realize their mistake and then set off along with them to find Guru Sahib, who was still being followed by the Mughals. They reached Khidrana, where a battle took place between the two armies.
In this battle, those 40 Singhs were all slain, Guru Sahib forgave them and they came to be known as the Chali Muktay, the liberated ones, and Khidrana came to be known as Muktsar.
Tragically, Mai Bhago ji’s husband and brothers were killed in this battle and so she dedicated her life to meditation and attained liberation.
After attaining liberation, Mata ji became detached from the physical world and its customs and traditions. She started to live her life free of all attachment to objects and any desire to do anything.
Kavi Santokh Singh ji explains that her spiritual state reached a point where she became even detached from basic things such as wearing of clothes.
This is when Guru Gobind Singh ji intervened and suggested to Mata ji that in order to preserve the honour of her family, she should cover her head and wrap herself with a shawl.
Mata ji obeyed Guru Sahib and continued to meditate on God until her last breath.
The Daughter turned Wife turned Warrior turned Saint, Mai Bhago ji’s story is very inspirational to those who are on the Path of the Saints.
For me Mai Bhago ji has been a constant inspiration to take action, to take charge, and make things happen. When I heard about the latter part of her life, she then also became an immense inspiration for me to meditate and to cultivate strong states of detachment.

Beautiful

Both are part of it and both are important.
You are making one look worse than the other through your words. So half the things that you should be doing, you are avoiding. Thus I imagine you are only getting half the benefit from Gurmati.
God has no symbols but also has many symbols, pick a few and stick to them. Pick the images and symbols which appeal to you. Whether it be chakradhar, sharangdhar, kalgidhar, aswadhar, topidhar. ;)
Be Nehkaram while performing karam, choose the right action, moral action, action that leads to results. Do actions together as a community even as simple as e.g. putting Guru Granth Sahib to sleep, so that your consciousness may be united.
Dhyan lagao also pay others to do so Ragis, Pandits, etc. It is important that people earn a living through this and others will get to hear them sing Lord's praises. It is also important to meditate yourself and become receptive to Divine being.
Do not expect miracles but do not be too skeptical and reject or dismiss any miracles. Have faith in God, but miracles also strengthen faith. So believe in that too. They do happen.
Transcend all tribes but be part of one. Everyone needs a tribe. Be part of a tribe, and contribute to it. However big or small that tribe is. Full khalsa or simply a sect hidden somewhere, be a part of it. Do not slander other tribes.
 
Yog (enlightenment) through Gyan (knowledge)/ Karm (action)/ Bhakti (devotion)/ Raj(meditation)... all are important.

Good song, and info.
That would be a string instrument.
Check out Ghatam ( ਘਟੰ )
 
Good posts.
pancha ka guru ek Dhyan
Dhyan is that space in which there is sensory experience such as the hearing of the anahad shabad
 
Yea they sound similar.
 
 
It's funny how you say Onkar is lower-pitch.
 
It does appear to be a lower pitch version of Conch.
But maybe that's because we are male?

I was wondering whether you can assist me with the following queries in relation to Guru Sahibaans' hunting:

1.) How do we justify the Gurus' hunting in light of Shabads in Gurbani which are deemed to be pro-vegetarian and against killing? i.e. (1103) You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher?

(1128) One who contemplates the essence of reality remains awake and aware. He kills his self-conceit, and does not kill anyone else.

(1375) Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? Kabir, it is tyranny to use force; the Lord shall call you to account. When your account is called for, your face and mouth shall be struck.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

4.) What types of animals is the Khalsa not allowed to hunt/consume?

5.) What were the Gurus' views on excessive hunting?

6.) Why is Halal forbidden to the Khalsa?

Thank you very much and I look forward to your response.

This is the one.
Yea he doesn't go into detail.
But his tone with this is much different than certain other parcharaks.
I wish he would clarify that this shalok is not about criticizing the garb of the Saints ie wearing of mala, having at least two dhotis or two kacheras and covering the head.
Guru Sahib is not saying "stop wearing that stuff".
This shalok is a teaching to those who think that by wearing the garb of Saints, one becomes a Saint, ie one becomes liberated.
Guru sahib is saying, "by wearing the garb of Saints, you will not become a Saint".
Just because you wield a sword and dress up in armour, does not make you a warrior.

@paapiman
Beautiful arth of this tuk but where is the remaining shabad?

If a person feels that Bhagat jee is only talking about ritual meat or not talking about meat at all in the above verses, he/she should examine other verses of Shromani Bhagat Baba Kabeer jee Maharaaj. Some people might be aware that there are verses of Bhagat Kabeer jee, which are not incorporated into Gurbani. These verses are potential tools to understand Bhagat jee's point of view.
Please have a look below:
 
कबीर-माँस भखै औ मद पिये, धन वेश्या सों खाय।
जुआ खेलि चोरी करै, अंत समूला जाय।।5।।
 
Those who consume meat and drink alcohol, that female who practices prostitution and those who make a prostitute do business and earn money from her, those who gamble, those who commit theft and do not listen when told, they incur heinous sin and will fall in deep hell (5)
 
कबीर-पापी पूजा बैठिकै, भखै माँस मद दोइ।
तिनकी दीक्षा मुक्ति नहिं, कोटि नरक फल होइ।।10।।
 
Those who take initiation from Gurus which consume meat and alcohol never achieve salvation, instead are destined to deep hell. (10)
 
कबीर-माँस अहारी मानई, प्रत्यक्ष राक्षस जानि।
ताकी संगति मति करै, होइ भक्ति में हानि।।1।।

कबीर-माँस खांय ते ढेड़ सब, मद पीवैं सो नीच।
कुलकी दुरमति पर हरै, राम कहै सो ऊंच।।2।।
 
Kabir Sahib is saying that those who consume meat and drink alcohol, even after listening to satsang (discourse), do not relinquish evil deeds and don't take initiation, consider them clearly to be demons. Unknowingly anyone can commit a mistake. If someone after listening to satsang abandons the evil deeds and starts worshipping the God, then he is a noble soul irrespective of the religion. Those who do not stop eating meat and drinking alcohol and do not worship the God are low irrespective of what ever religion they may belong to. The meaning is that those who do noble deeds are noble and those doing low deeds are low. Those who remain in the company of low people cause harm to their worship.(1-2)
 
There are more verses too. Please have a look below:
http://www.supremeknowledge.org/kabir-vani-vegetarian.php
 
It should be crystal clear from the above that Bhagat jee was staunchly against meat eating.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Good point by Lucky paaji. The shabad "Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jagray" is talking about Brahamgyan, desires, taste of tongue, exposing hypocrisy, time management, imprudence, relationships, bondage to flesh, sins, conception process, etc. This shabad has been wrongfully used to legitimize the sin of meat eating.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

@HisServant
Love it!

Some of it is pretty wacky but nothing outside the realm of Consciousness.

I think it is important to share your experiences with someone. You may continue to share on the forums as well.
It's in the sinus. For me this type of pressure was due to my jaw muscles being tight. So now I relax them and there is never any pressure.
I used to think it was chakras activating, but chakras you will never feel if they are working properly.
 
If you feel that you are able to breath better then that's good.
But you should also stretch jaw muscles and massage them to relax them as much as possible.

Ideally jaw muscles should be so relaxed that someone should be able to grab your lower jaw and easily move it around.

If you are clenching your teeth throughout the day, then be mindful of that too, so that you are noy unnecessarily tightening up your jaw muscles.
 
This is why it is important to tell someone what is happening inside you. This voice might be a good thing but it might also be bad.

Try to listen to it without judgement as good or bad. Simply treat it as another sound phenomenon like external sounds or inner talk and focus on the meditation.
 
Yes I believe this is why the Saints drew a picture of Supreme God holding the conch and playing the flute.

Kabir ji talks about Kinguri during meditaton on Ram ji.
ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਨਹਦ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਬਾਜੈ ॥
King Ram's unstruck Kinguri plays,
ਜਾ ਕੀ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਨਾਦ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
By his grace my consciousness is attuned to him.

Kinguri is a string instrument and when I first heard these sounds, it was all mish mash but when I started to differentiate them and get a higher resolution, like an HD TV vision of these sounds, then I could isolate the Kinguri.
 
Well that maybe necessary for some people and this is why it is important to share your experience. But from everything I have heard so far, I think you are just on your way to the depths of Consciousness and there is nothing to fear or worry about.

I live a pretty busy lifestyle but I put meditation at the front because it helps me in every aspect of life. 
 
I'm trying to become a doctor so this entire summer is just me studying for my mcat. I'm really career focused. I am one of the directors on the board of my local hospital. I was actually probably the youngest to ever join - at the age of 17. And I owe that to the bhagti for sharpening my confidence and helping me approach problems with a lot of patience.
I have also spearheaded/been lead on a few major projects for both the hospital and other healthcare related work. Again - the calmness that bhagti leaves you with is responsible for this.
I have worked in academia, research, published a scientific article on meditation and neuroplasticity, edited a science vs meditation textbook (not released to the public yet but will be soon - the prof in charge will be selling it to profs who teach spirituality courses at universities) etc. Meditation helps you learn and study because you're not easily frustrated when you can't figure something out.
I also work for the universities student union, been the student media spokesperson for the past provincial election. (But as of last week have taken some time off to focus on my test). Really involved with helping the local gurdwara and running its social media (I live in a city which is/was primarily white growing up so got really involved with the gurdwara due to the small sikh population).
 
I don't know if any of that is meaningful though lol. It probably sounds really boring but I love all of this. Especially the science stuff - I am a huge biology nerd. And I love brains (lol... don't be creeped out)
Plus part of a lot of clubs, services, etc at school. However... no longer part of the sikh student association... essentially banned for speaking out against anything that goes against popular belief. There was a time when I would stay silent and heavily help out. But I couldn't sit around and listen to people talk about topics like "possible sikhi-related solutions to mental health" but not hear anyone say anything about the path of japa - then be told jaap isn't part of sikhi. This is a longer discussion, but you know exactly what I'm talking about with the views of most of the community these days. And I couldn't sit around and watch them pretend like they can't be friends with non-sikhs, or their lack of professionalism in certain academic/career related environments. 
 
Non-academic side I have a kirtan ustaad - not going to mention his name because many know him - and it would give away who I am. But I think that goes hand in hand with bhagti. Kirtan has always helped me increase love for god and motivate the mind to do more bhagti. 
I used to work out 7 days a week but I am so tight on time these days I fell off of that. Can't start back up until september because I have my mcat on Aug 2 and then I'm back in England until September. But main reason for the 7 days was that it had tremendous benefits on meditation. Back then balancing breath was a struggle and the lifting got the job done. 
Also do cryptocurrency day trading... it's pretty fun. Busy with studying right now so I set up a bot to do it for me.
Socially I would consider myself pretty extroverted. I have a habit of being friends with/starting a conversation with every second person I see on the street. I know a lot of people which is good and bad in many ways. As of now, it's been not the best because someone always wants to go for lunch or hangout but I need to study and do bhagti. But on the brightside - if I do notice someone is not the best sangat, I am able to drop them immediately and never look back. Due to the detachment. Doesn't matter how close they are. Even dropped a 12 year long friendship because I realized the guy is completely immersed in the same sikh-youth mindset as everyone else and I didn't want to waste my time there. I don't care what I say in any situation - I just freely speak whatever is on my mind. Could not care less what people think. I don't see any reason to pretend to be someone else. The meditation has brought on this freedom. 
 
I love cars as well. I drive a manual audi. Probably my most valued possesion. This one doesn't relate to meditation but I think it's one every guy on this site can relate to. Only thing I can think of is the attachment to it. I did have a situation a little while back where something went wrong... and long story short the mechanic said the price to fix it was more than the car itself. The initial thought was "cool, I'll just sell the parts, buy some cool shoes and start walking wherever I go". Which a year ago, I probably would have flipped and gone into depression. Luckily, I took it to an old friend and he figured out a way to make it as good as new without spending more than $20.
 
So essentially, I would say meditation is the only meaningful activity I do because none of my other activities would exist/have meaning without it. It has literally created a life of complete freedom where I just do what I feel like doing with no care for the consequences. Which is not a bad thing because with sikhi/gurmat, you never have ill intentions.
 
When a lot of people talk about bhagti, they say you can't do things you enjoy, or hangout with non-bhagti type people... but honestly 85%+ of my social groups are people who are not Sikh. Less than 3-5% probably do bhagti (I just have this forum and a local simran group that I only see a few sundays a month). 
 
So all I have to say to people that live in that closed off mentality is... LIVE LIFE. Do what you have to do in tregun on a day to day basis. And then when that's over, learn to connect internally. 
 
Obviously, that does not mean go drink and party everyday. I still practice brahmachariya, I still restrain myself from indulging in unhealthy food, I restrain from the 4 kurehits, I read gurbani everyday and do kirtan, I wear my kakars. But... I live life in a way that is enjoyable and integrates with western society. You don't have to be "the religious" guy in every social situation that makes other people feel like they can't have a good time (I used to be that guy many years ago). You need to live life in a way where you integrate into society and inspire other people to do jaap. Find what you enjoy in life and be the life of that group. The greater the mental stability, the more you will enjoy the activity. 
 
And just an fyi - I know a lot of the activities I stated above may not be appealing to most people. I am that weird 20 year old nerd that likes to wear a dress shirt/tie all the time and read science or psychology articles/watch videos on politics. It's just the type of person I am... But I do know people around my age who practice meditation and still do all of the same activities young people do but they remain detached internally. My younger brother for example, he's a huge basketball fan. Even runs a big instagram fan page. Dresses like every other 17-18 year old you see these days. But interally completely silent. He hasn't been practicing for as long but the differences I see between him and his friends are insane. 
 
I know this was a really long post - but I have very strong opinions when it comes to balancing tregun with spirituality. 

Still slightly confused - do you mean as in experiences of god vs trips? 

I can see how this may be the same for me. Sometimes you miss these things. Now that you mention it I realize my face is a bit tense. 
 
I agree - I have had some thoughts that it may have been the dhuts/thoughts being deceptive 
 
I've noticed they always draw the instrument on the side of the body that it is appears the loudest - I may be wrong - but I am assuming that was their intention 
 
this is where I am at. It only becomes clear at certain moments. Still needs a lot of practice. 
lol.. I originally meant that as a joke. But yes, agreed. There are just some moments when something happens and the initial thought is "woah, did that really just happen?" My intent is to keep this thread going because I know people read it and it inspires them to start putting in the effort. I used to read posts by you, lucky and sat back in the day and it really pushed me because I wanted to see what those experiences were like. So much of drive was over this thread and the anhad naad conversation. I don't think I would have worked nearly as hard if it wasn't for those posts. 
 
But at the same time, I don't want to risk saying anything that will harm other people's bhagti. So if I am crossing the limit at any point, please let me know through private message and I'll delete the post. 

Some of it is pretty wacky but nothing outside the realm of Consciousness.

I think it is important to share your experiences with someone. You may continue to share on the forums as well.
It's in the sinus. For me this type of pressure was due to my jaw muscles being tight. So now I relax them and there is never any pressure.
I used to think it was chakras activating, but chakras you will never feel if they are working properly.
 
If you feel that you are able to breath better then that's good.
But you should also stretch jaw muscles and massage them to relax them as much as possible.

Ideally jaw muscles should be so relaxed that someone should be able to grab your lower jaw and easily move it around.

If you are clenching your teeth throughout the day, then be mindful of that too, so that you are noy unnecessarily tightening up your jaw muscles.
 
This is why it is important to tell someone what is happening inside you. This voice might be a good thing but it might also be bad.

Try to listen to it without judgement as good or bad. Simply treat it as another sound phenomenon like external sounds or inner talk and focus on the meditation.
 
Yes I believe this is why the Saints drew a picture of Supreme God holding the conch and playing the flute.

Kabir ji talks about Kinguri during meditaton on Ram ji.
ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਨਹਦ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਬਾਜੈ ॥
King Ram's unstruck Kinguri plays,
ਜਾ ਕੀ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਨਾਦ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
By his grace my consciousness is attuned to him.

Kinguri is a string instrument and when I first heard these sounds, it was all mish mash but when I started to differentiate them and get a higher resolution, like an HD TV vision of these sounds, then I could isolate the Kinguri.
 
Well that maybe necessary for some people and this is why it is important to share your experience. But from everything I have heard so far, I think you are just on your way to the depths of Consciousness and there is nothing to fear or worry about.

Night time is getting really good for me.
Fell asleep listening to the sound last night. Every time I woke up I would hear the sound, feel drowsy and fall back asleep. Body felt extremely intoxicated. It was back and forth all night for at least 11 hours. I usually am not able to sleep more than 6. I had to literally pull myself up and even after that I kept knocking out. For a few moments even forgot who I was. I had to take a moment to remember my responsibilites. But it literally felt like I had woken up into a different world. 
The most interesting part was it literally felt like I was dying or going unconcious every time I entered into sleep. I could watch myself go in and then I was aware that I was asleep. Although, I wasn't aware enough that I could control what was happening. 

Nice find bro. Thanks for sharing.

She shares a TON of insights into the mind.

Useful insight into the use of mala by GuruMaa
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156109121694395&id=378788264394