Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?

[Niranjana]

Is this a sign of more to come…NEO Singh began a thread not too long ago about certain pictures in Gurdwaras, which was met with the more than expected response…however, the same was true of BKI supporters pre-9/11, suddenly after the attacks and the group being formally registered as a terrorist outfit, even the AKJ websites and functions have been keen to avoid association with the Babbars...

...what can we expect next, pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh Bindranwale forbidden from Human Rights rallies once the alledged human rights abuses attributed to some of his followers and the Taksal comes to light?

The Press Trust of India

April 29, 2007 Sunday

SECTION: NATIONWIDE INTERNATIONAL NEWS

LENGTH: 243 words

HEADLINE: Canada will not tolerate "glorification" of Sikh militants

DATELINE: Toronto Apr 29

BODY:

Taking serious note of a recent Sikh parade in which a militant was glorified, Canada has said that it would not allow such unlawful activities that hurt friendly relations with India.

"Canada obviously does not tolerate any kind of glorification of violence, or of terrorism or banned terrorist organisations," a spokesman of the federal government said "... There may have been evidence of those things at a (recent) Sikh parade event at Surrey and we've taken note of them. Federal government is monitoring the issue." Surrey City Mayor has warned that the city administration would not allow unlawful activities of Sikh militants that hurt relations between India and Canada.

The city administration has been directed to conduct thorough review of the public events before granting permission to them, Dianne Watts said.

"We need to make sure that we are aware of what content is going into the parade," Watts said and added "I think we need to be more vigilant in terms of what that looks like..." Surrey's Vaisakhi parade on April seven displayed pictures of Talwinder Singh Parmar, the prime suspect in Kanishka bombing case who died during the trial.

The bombing of the Air India's Kanishka flight in 1985 had left all 329 people on board dead.

"We have to make sure all politicians, from the prime minister to the premier, all the MLAs and MPs ... Will have a level of comfort that we have done due diligence in terms of content in all parades," Watts added.

[chatanga]

the indian fearing brown nosing cnadains.

[Niranjana]

catanaga: "the indian fearing brown nosing cnadains"

Is this really as simple as the burly meat-eating Canadians being afraid of the diminutive small framed vegetarian Indians?

[chatanga]

no nirgunjani this is a case of the burly meat-eating Canadians being afraid of the diminutive small framed vegetarian Indians economic baragining power, just the same as the uk govt.

catanaga

[chatanga]

but sticking to the topic in geenral, one persons terrorist has always been anothers freedom fighter.

[Kam1825]

what makes a person a freedom fighter or a terrorist is due to the onlookers view of the complete situation. Also a big thing now is the media interest and distortion, believe me i know about that working in the police. If the cause that is being fought over is close to your heart and affects you or your future generations then you may see them as freedom fighters. if a person views the reason for the movement or action as uneccecary or inapropriate then they will deem the person as a terrorist.

Labelling the individual is very difficult from an outside view i guess by gaining some sort of empathy for a persons mindset and viewpoint for their actions only then can we understand why a person would do something which many would see a serious crime and unethical actions.

[Niranjana]

"no nirgunjani this is a case of the burly meat-eating Canadians being afraid of the diminutive small framed vegetarian Indians economic baragining power, just the same as the uk govt"

Chatanga, this a nice hypothesis, however the economic bargaining power of India isn't as strong as you depict here!

"but sticking to the topic in geenral, one persons terrorist has always been anothers freedom fighter."

This is the 'usual response' that I refer to, which to be honest may have served well for those who support the actions of those they hold to be 'freedom fighters', however the world post 9/11 has given a different spin on the entire matter internationally, so we do need to dig a little deeper than this wouldn't you say?

The implications of what happened in Canada are going to be the same for all Sikhs, whether or not they supported BKI etc. The question I'm asking is simple, given the amount of press that is circulating in the last week alone, on a global basis about this event, should we not deduce from this the most likely implications with respect to other glorified figures who, rightly or wrongly, may meet with the same reaction...

...or do we want to wait until Channel 4 undertakes an "Undercover documentary on Sikh Gurdwaras" much like they have been with UK Mosques, by which time, it will frankly be too late to either (1) remove any such links from our public image, in the event that that is what the sangat ultimately decides or (2) educate the world on the what the community regards to be the truth about say, Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bindranwale Shaheed, as per my "example" above.

[Dancing Warrior]

Niranjana Ji,

It’s pretty obvious mate, if you don’t support the Khalistani ideology, their belief system, their personalities, their whiter than white existence you are automatically pro Indian army, pro Indra Gandi, pro human rights violations, pro rape, pro murder, pro kps gill. If I got a pound every time I’ve been labelled “Anti Panthic, Gandi Lover, Indian ass kisser I could have purchased my own Che Guevara T-shirt and financed a real fight for independence like in the Passport to Pimlico.

[chatanga]

Dancing warrior

Its pretty obvious mate, if you dont support india ideology, their satani belief system, thier personalites, their whiter than white existence of being the worlds largest democracy you are automatically labelled pro pakistan, terorist, extremist, isi agent etc... if i had a rupee every time i got called a pakistani agent i could have purchased the dvd of passport to pimlico.

chatanga

[Niranjana]

chatanga and dancing warrior,

you are both describing an issue that I've come against several times, being neither pro-khalistani or pro-sanatani, however let's try and actually for once, address the situation and argument rather than the individuals!!!

[Dancing Warrior]

Would that be a khalistani Rupee? You had better start saving; it could take you a life time even several, considering the currency holds no legal tender. However the “INDIAN†rupee can be a viable alternative.

Err…what’s Satani belief? worshipping Satan? He can’t be all bad; I mean how many wars have been fought in Satan’s name?

(Not including lord of the Rings)

[Xylitol]

my definition of terrorist is one who ON PURPOSE targets innocents to achieve a political goal. the definition of innocent is a noncombatent. leaders, including politicians, direct armies and enable them to operate in a direct way, india's security services were clearly fighters, and informants are intel - all are combatants in one way or another - their actions can be closely linked to military type positions. so the khalistanis who were/are held up are not truly terrorists, but freedom fighters. or if you want to use a still alarming but more in between middle ground term - militants or insurgents.

[guv]

my definition of terrorist is one who ON PURPOSE targets innocents to achieve a political goal. the definition of innocent is a noncombatent. leaders, including politicians, direct armies and enable them to operate in a direct way, india's security services were clearly fighters, and informants are intel - all are combatants in one way or another - their actions can be closely linked to military type positions. so the khalistanis who were/are held up are not truly terrorists, but freedom fighters. or if you want to use a still alarming but more in between middle ground term - militants or insurgents.

that would make america a terrorist for the bombing of hiroshima & nagasaki.

also, britain's actions against german cities in ww2 was also an act of terrorism.

[chatanga]

that would also make the indian govt a terrorist as well for torturing and kiling thousands of people sicne 1984.

[Niranjana]

more importantly, that would make the murderers of Baljit Kaur more than just terrorists...

[Guest]

more importantly, that would make the murderers of Baljit Kaur more than just terrorists...

can you please provide more detail regarding account of Baljit Kaur. I heard she came in Darbar Sahib to Kill Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale, tried to poison him? But she got killed by sant bhindranwale men during her "malicous act".

[Niranjana]

NEO, the reference you are looking for comes from a Book about Sant Jee by Ranbir S. Sandhu wherein he states:

Joshi mentions another attempt on Sant's life: 'It was obvious that some persons/organizations had mixed a certain amount of poison in his food. But given the traditional Indian "efficiency" it was just not enough to kill him. On 23 September, Bhindranwale's condition was reported to be

critical with his urine containing 40 per cent blood.' Then, in April 1984, Baljit Kaur confessed to having been paid to kill him. On April 17, 1984, Surinder Singh Sodhi, a close associate of Sant Bhindranwale, was assassinated with the connivance of some Akali leaders. Joshi, describing a June 1, 1984, attempt by the military to kill Sant Bhindranwale, states: 'At a silent order four shots were aimed in a vain effort to assassinate this fountainhead of terror.'

What he chooses to ignore are all of Joshi's critical comments and analysis about Sant Jee and Sikh leadership in general, instead focusing solely on his critique of the Government. Joshi's book however is worth reading for a critique of all parties and individuals.

Additionally, more to the matter at hand, Baljit Kaur was the girlfriend of one Surinder Singh "Chinda", who is believed to have been acting against Sant Jee and was responsible for the killing of his right hand man, Surinder Singh Sodhi.

Baljit Kaur is supposed to have ran to the Akal Takht to justify the killing of Sodhi by claiming that he had ‘misbehaved’ with her, but ended up confessing that her and Chinda were paid for the killing, implicating Gurcharan Singh (Secretary, Akali Dal) and Malik Singh Bhatia (a follower of Sant Jee).

I believe Bhatia confessed subsequently to providing Chinda with a vehicle and begged forgiveness from Sant Jee, however was attacked with swords and finally shot before he could run to the Guru Nanak Niwas.

Baljit Kaur was later tortured in the most brutal of manners having her breasts cut off, and then killed within the Akal Takht. Her mutilated body was found on the Grand Trunk Road bundled into a bag within 24 hours of the above together with the body of Chinda.

The day following Sodhi’s murder, a notice was pinned to the door of Gurcharan Singh (who had survived the revenge attack locked in the Guru Nanak Niwas and protected by guards provided by the Akali Dal President) indicating that the murderers of Sodhi had been eliminated.

[chatanga]

so its agreed that the killers of Baljit Kaur were more than just terrorists?

chatanga

[Dancing Warrior]

My opinion it was an act of barbarism to do such a thing to a woman what ever her crime. Even in a combatant situation killing, mutilating, dishonouring a woman is totally totally unacceptable. But then Two armed guards killing a defenceless women what ever her crime was that acceptable? In my opinion no. Such crimes against women, children and the non combatant are crimes against humanity be it a freedom fighter or an army officer. Depravity is depravity what ever the uniform, what ever the righteous cause.

Chatanga I am not neo or sanathan or any such label you may care to define me with, I don’t even believe in religion to me its just a moral code. There is a difference between morality and spirituality. I only consider myself a Sikh just a leaner I cant claim to be any more because I believe in its unlimited capacity it could take life times just the fathom what a Sikh is. So many mechanically rifle through Bani, scripture and history and are most learned I truly believe I don’t even understand the beginnings of Mool Mantra, Ek Onkar, because if I did I would be truly liberated.

[fatehsingh]

Can the murder of Baljit Kaur really be attributed to maharaj Jarnail Singh after all? Who is to say he even knew about what happened to her? Maybe if he knew he'd not have allowed his Sikhs to kill her?

[Guest]

Can the murder of Baljit Kaur really be attributed to maharaj Jarnail Singh after all? Who is to say he even knew about what happened to her? Maybe if he knew he'd not have allowed his Sikhs to kill her?

interesting observation there. !

[gsingh00]

you should talk to people that were actually there when it happened and learn the true story. Some things are better left off the internet, so I wont type it up.

[Niranjana]

Gurpreet Singh - that is nothing but a simple cop out. If you have something to contribute, then please do so...

Fateh Singh - It is commonly known that Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bindranwale's men were responsible for this revenge attack, not only because of their placards around the Darbar Sahib complex attesting to it...

Catanga - perhaps you'll be so kind as to indicate what your views are on the mutilation of Baljit Kaur's body?

Dancing Warrior - you have made reference to the killing of Indira Gandhi. This is an interesting area of discussion given that we find no historic precedent set by our Gurus or Sikhs for attacking a woman in such a manner...yet those who regard themselves as the best followers of the Guru sing the glories of such acts in their Gurdwaras frequently?

So I ask again, is the Canadian incident a sign of things to come?

[Freed]

Isn't this a case of the old hackneyed phrase "it is the victors who write history" -- the definition of a terrorist can be as wide or narrow as you wish.

If India is aggrieved by pictures of Parmar - wouldn't the UK be aggrieved by paintings of the 'Killer' Bhagat Singh in the Indian Parliament , wouldn't Canadians be aggrieved by paintings of Meva Singh in Vancouver's Khalsa Diwan Society Gurdwara ? (Meva Singh killed William C. Hopkinson , a Canadian Immigration official, seen as a Spy by many Indians and instrumental in the Komagata Maru incident)

Wouldn't the families of Japanese and German Prisoners of War be aggrieved by India's glorification of Subash Chandra Bose and the INA who collaborated with the Japanese and the Nazis ?

What about Madan Lal Dhingra, Udham Singh and Kartar Sarabha aren't they terrorists ? but all their paintings hang in Indian Govt Buildings - the get out clause is always the carefully constructed 'Inquilaab ideology' and that they were fighting an undemocratic empire - but wasn't Punjab under direct rule throughout the 1980s?

Today's terrorists are tommorrow's leaders, a case in point is when members of Irgun — a militant Zionist organization, bombed Jerusalem's King David Hotel - HQ of the British Govt. of Palestine. The bomb killed 100 people it was ordered by Menachem Begin who would later become Prime Minister of Israel. Another case is that of the universally lauded Nelson Mandela - many seem to have forgotten why he was in prison.

Politics and the Media it's a dirty game - shades of grey and uncertainties

at the end of the day they are just photographs - where I live certain Muslim groups take it upon themselves to paint over any Large advertisement posters/billboards that they deem unsuitable - usually underwear advertisements or where models of either gender are showing 'too much ' flesh - is this what we want ?

Last time I looked Canada was not a state of India -Freedom of Speech and thought means everyone is entitled to their opinion - the local Sikhs of all opinions need to put their views in the media as well.

And finally the Canadian press need to stop with the 'All Sikhs are like this'

offensive rubbish - I mean all Canadians aren't baby seal killing blood thirsty hunters or Lumberjacks in checked shirts ('Suspenders and a bra' - sorry couldn't resist the 'Python' ref. ) who can't say 'about' but say 'aboot' - now are they ?

[Freed]

double post