das

In order to really answer this question in black-and-white; 2 things are required:
- The person answering the question should have visited/reached the Sachkhand. Because without actually reaching there, how could one tell what path to take?
- Plus, He/She is willing to answer the question from truthful point of view; instead of answering for the sake of questioner's spiritual progress (so that the questioner's belief's are not shattered; but sometimes they need to be shattered).
As you can see from the above: Expecting a real answer from any internet forum or from a normal person is not going to work.
Therefore it implies that both parties (pro-living-master vs anti-living-masters) arguments are sheer understandings of their beliefs at this-point-in-time. Sometimes one party wins because they presented good arguments, but sometimes the other party wins. All in all, its like cheering for a sporting event from a distance. Pick the team, Join the team, and then cheer without pointing fingers at other team.
My current understanding is:
First let's sort out the definitions first:
Perfect-Living-Master = Sant = Brahmgyani = Guru = Satguru = Spiritual-Master = Spiritual-Teacher = The one who has already reached the Nij ghar (Sachkhand or whatsoever that place is called).
1. All of the 10 Gurus did have Spiritual-Master even though Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was present (Gurgaddi was not given till 10th patshah).
2. All the Puran Sants in sikhism and also in other religions did have a Spiritual-Master.
3. In the whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is nowhere mentioned that a Living-Person is not required. But there are many places where the importance of Sants are disclosed and their society is recommended.
4. Without the Sant/Guru, the spiritual progress is possible only upto certain point but in order to reach the ultimate truth, a Living-Sant is required.
5. For Anti-Living-Master party, they always say Shabad is the Guru; but we need to digest this: even the real knowledge as defined/shown in Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be fully understood without Sants. e.g The same tuk/line which till yesterday meant something different, but as we progress the meaning changes. In the same vein, how could we be so sure that our understanding of the same tuk will not be changed on next big spiritual stage? In other words, our understanding is always relative.  If our understanding is relative, then who would have the real knowledge? Saints........ There is a reason elders have said: There is only one Truth and that Truth could only be found by the help of person who are the truth and not who know the truth.
Everyone is entitled to its own understanding. Problem comes when we try to define the things as we understood and then try to enforce our thinking to others, saying that we're right in our understanding....thereby missing the whole point of the discussion and thus start debating instead of discussing. The real intention should have been to discuss the best possible way.
 

In order to really answer this question in black-and-white; 2 things are required:
- The person answering the question should have visited/reached the Sachkhand. Because without actually reaching there, how could one tell what path to take?
- Plus, He/She is willing to answer the question from truthful point of view; instead of answering for the sake of questioner's spiritual progress (so that the questioner's belief's are not shattered; but sometimes they need to be shattered).
As you can see from the above: Expecting a real answer from any internet forum or from a normal person is not going to work.
Therefore it implies that both parties (pro-living-master vs anti-living-masters) arguments are sheer understandings of their beliefs at this-point-in-time. Sometimes one party wins because they presented good arguments, but sometimes the other party wins. All in all, its like cheering for a sporting event from a distance. Pick the team, Join the team, and then cheer without pointing fingers at other team.
My current understanding is:
First let's sort out the definitions first:
Perfect-Living-Master = Sant = Brahmgyani = Guru = Satguru = Spiritual-Master = Spiritual-Teacher = The one who has already reached the Nij ghar (Sachkhand or whatsoever that place is called).
1. All of the 10 Gurus did have Spiritual-Master even though Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was present (Gurgaddi was not given till 10th patshah).
2. All the Puran Sants in sikhism and also in other religions did have a Spiritual-Master.
3. In the whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is nowhere mentioned that a Living-Person is not required. But there are many places where the importance of Sants are disclosed and their society is recommended.
4. Without the Sant/Guru, the spiritual progress is possible only upto certain point but in order to reach the ultimate truth, a Living-Sant is required.
5. For Anti-Living-Master party, they always say Shabad is the Guru; but we need to digest this: even the real knowledge as defined/shown in Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be fully understood without Sants. e.g The same tuk/line which till yesterday meant something different, but as we progress the meaning changes. In the same vein, how could we be so sure that our understanding of the same tuk will not be changed on next big spiritual stage? In other words, our understanding is always relative.  If our understanding is relative, then who would have the real knowledge? Saints........ There is a reason elders have said: There is only one Truth and that Truth could only be found by the help of person who are the truth and not who know the truth.
Everyone is entitled to its own understanding. Problem comes when we try to define the things as we understood and then try to enforce our thinking to others, saying that we're right in our understanding....thereby missing the whole point of the discussion and thus start debating instead of discussing. The real intention should have been to discuss the best possible way.
 

In order to really answer this question in black-and-white; 2 things are required:
- The person answering the question should have visited/reached the Sachkhand. Because without actually reaching there, how could one tell what path to take?
- Plus, He/She is willing to answer the question from truthful point of view; instead of answering for the sake of questioner's spiritual progress (so that the questioner's belief's are not shattered; but sometimes they need to be shattered).
As you can see from the above: Expecting a real answer from any internet forum or from a normal person is not going to work.
Therefore it implies that both parties (pro-living-master vs anti-living-masters) arguments are sheer understandings of their beliefs at this-point-in-time. Sometimes one party wins because they presented good arguments, but sometimes the other party wins. All in all, its like cheering for a sporting event from a distance. Pick the team, Join the team, and then cheer without pointing fingers at other team.
My current understanding is:
First let's sort out the definitions first:
Perfect-Living-Master = Sant = Brahmgyani = Guru = Satguru = Spiritual-Master = Spiritual-Teacher = The one who has already reached the Nij ghar (Sachkhand or whatsoever that place is called).
1. All of the 10 Gurus did have Spiritual-Master even though Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was present (Gurgaddi was not given till 10th patshah).
2. All the Puran Sants in sikhism and also in other religions did have a Spiritual-Master.
3. In the whole Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it is nowhere mentioned that a Living-Person is not required. But there are many places where the importance of Sants are disclosed and their society is recommended.
4. Without the Sant/Guru, the spiritual progress is possible only upto certain point but in order to reach the ultimate truth, a Living-Sant is required.
5. For Anti-Living-Master party, they always say Shabad is the Guru; but we need to digest this: even the real knowledge as defined/shown in Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be fully understood without Sants. e.g The same tuk/line which till yesterday meant something different, but as we progress the meaning changes. In the same vein, how could we be so sure that our understanding of the same tuk will not be changed on next big spiritual stage? In other words, our understanding is always relative.  If our understanding is relative, then who would have the real knowledge? Saints........ There is a reason elders have said: There is only one Truth and that Truth could only be found by the help of person who are the truth and not who know the truth.
Everyone is entitled to its own understanding. Problem comes when we try to define the things as we understood and then try to enforce our thinking to others, saying that we're right in our understanding....thereby missing the whole point of the discussion and thus start debating instead of discussing. The real intention should have been to discuss the best possible way.
 

It depends upon what kind of information you're looking for; but here is my personal thinking:
For Health; practically this is the one that could help you daily
Your Bodys Many Cries for Water by Dr Batmanghelidj (https://www.scribd.com/doc/179427446/Your-Body-s-Many-Cries-for-Water-Fereydoon-Batmanghelidj-pdf) Water Cure by Sebastian Kneipp (https://archive.org/download/mywatercureastes00kneiuoft/mywatercureastes00kneiuoft.pdf) For the methods to Mimic the Natural rhythm and flow of Water to increase its life-giving power:
Flowforms The Rhythmic Power of Water by John Wilkes All the other books are for the one who really want to understand the true power and nature of water and want to research very deeply. All the books are good, but i would suggest to just stick with the basic information: How to use water for your Health as well as Spiritually. Othewise, one could spend the whole life in the research of water and even then could not 100% decode its true power.

There is lot of information available in the mentioned books ranging from Health, Super-natural powers, GoldenRatio, Flying Saucers, absorbing natural powers from universe. So, I don't know what exactly you're looking for. But here is the sample from the 2 books:
Reference: Page-93 of Living Water and Secrets of Natural Energy By Viktor Schauberger:
If water or air is rotated into a twisting form of oscillation known as 'colloidal', a build up of energy results, which, with immense power, can cause levitation. This form of movement is able to carry with it its own means of power generation. This principle leads logically to its application in the design of the ideal airplane or submarine. In 1943 era lot of flying saucers were designed on these principles.
Reference: Page 65 of Sensitive Chaos The creation of Flowing Forms in Water and Air By Theodor Schwenk
Water shaken in a vessel can be caused to move in such a way that the inner surfaces thus created all slide past each other in the moving liquid. As soon as the movement ceases, the formation of inner surfaces, and thus also the great impressionability, is arrested, and the "sense organ" closes itself. If water is shaken in this way, all the many forms of movement arise in it which we have been describing singly for the sake of ?larity. The same is true of the natural movement of water, in which also a great variety of movements combine. Not only the shaking of a container but also other kinds of movement can open up the water as a sense organ.
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From the second reference it is quite clear why it is recommended to have the water (within the round earthen pot) near the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The reason is: When the water is in constant motion (vortexes are created no matter how slow the motion is) and from within the pores of clay pot Air (another natural force) interacts with water and thus water acting as the Sense Organ and retaining/locking the environment in itself.
So, prefered and correct way to place water near Sri Guru Granth Sahib is: Put the water in Round Earthen pot and do NOT try to put support to pot. The earthen pot will give natural motion and thus create the water to sense organ of the universe and the Bani uttered will be stored in the water and thus could be tagged as Amrit.

Again don't let your Mind ruin the game. Identify that it is YOU who is allowing your mind to run the game. Don't fight, just work with it.......e.g If you're getting bad/different thoughts, tell him that he is free to go/think anything that he likes, but you're NOT going along with it....i.e not thinking about the thought he introduced. Moreover, negative thinking is the biggest enemy. But do NOT expect that someone else will come and help you, HELP YOURSELF.

Doesn't Five Takth jathedars also speak the language of SGPC? Most of the time (not 100%) these days, the jatherdars are mere persons who have studied religious books without ever tasting the real thing.
In either case, its very hard to find the real Spiritual person who could shed light on these kind of matters. But I think if we encounter a real Spiritual person, then he would most probably ignore these kind of things....just like we sometimes ignore when 2 kids are fighting for the choice of chair with a specific color, but none of them wants to sit on it. In other words, kids have missed the main point: do they want to sit on the chair that they are fighting for?
Now, may be we as an individual consciousness (without depending upon external authority) should decide whether any thing teaches us some good moral values or takes us away from moral values. The life would be much simpler.
Crutches are good way to support the unbalanced walk, but just don't depend on it for the whole life.

Doesn't Five Takth jathedars also speak the language of SGPC? Most of the time (not 100%) these days, the jatherdars are mere persons who have studied religious books without ever tasting the real thing.
In either case, its very hard to find the real Spiritual person who could shed light on these kind of matters. But I think if we encounter a real Spiritual person, then he would most probably ignore these kind of things....just like we sometimes ignore when 2 kids are fighting for the choice of chair with a specific color, but none of them wants to sit on it. In other words, kids have missed the main point: do they want to sit on the chair that they are fighting for?
Now, may be we as an individual consciousness (without depending upon external authority) should decide whether any thing teaches us some good moral values or takes us away from moral values. The life would be much simpler.
Crutches are good way to support the unbalanced walk, but just don't depend on it for the whole life.

Doesn't Five Takth jathedars also speak the language of SGPC? Most of the time (not 100%) these days, the jatherdars are mere persons who have studied religious books without ever tasting the real thing.
In either case, its very hard to find the real Spiritual person who could shed light on these kind of matters. But I think if we encounter a real Spiritual person, then he would most probably ignore these kind of things....just like we sometimes ignore when 2 kids are fighting for the choice of chair with a specific color, but none of them wants to sit on it. In other words, kids have missed the main point: do they want to sit on the chair that they are fighting for?
Now, may be we as an individual consciousness (without depending upon external authority) should decide whether any thing teaches us some good moral values or takes us away from moral values. The life would be much simpler.
Crutches are good way to support the unbalanced walk, but just don't depend on it for the whole life.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/id7crkcslzi3e0p/PBVhXDvFv0/Sikh-Books-English
 

I respect your opinion and preference however you are using gurbani to prove something that it is not saying.
Excessive discussion whether about Gurmati or otherwise is not good for you. Guru Granth Sahib ji makes this clear.

In my humble, but confident opinion,   . this pangtee is explained  out of context from the original verse.  :
The verse can be discussed and deciphered further if anyone wishes to do so. I'd be happy to add further., (although i won't be back on forum for a while)
 
Just reminding myself with the older responses from 2015 (page 1)
 
 
 
Below is the verse, .. and it's worth looking at it carefully (very carefully) and pondering over a few questions that I raised and asked myself. (at the end-below)
ਮਃ ੧ ॥ 
Mėhlā 1. 
First Mehl: 
ਵਾਇਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਨਚਨਿ ਗੁਰ ॥ 
vā▫in cẖele nacẖan gur. 
The disciples play the music, and the gurus dance. 
ਪੈਰ ਹਲਾਇਨਿ ਫੇਰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਸਿਰ ॥ 
Pair halā▫in ferniĥ sir. 
They move their feet and roll their heads. 
ਉਡਿ ਉਡਿ ਰਾਵਾ ਝਾਟੈ ਪਾਇ ॥ 
Ud ud rāvā jẖātai pā▫e. 
The dust flies and falls upon their hair. 
ਵੇਖੈ ਲੋਕੁ ਹਸੈ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
vekẖai lok hasai gẖar jā▫e. 
Beholding them, the people laugh, and then go home. 
ਰੋਟੀਆ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥ 
Rotī▫ā kāraṇ pūrėh ṯāl. 
They beat the drums for the sake of bread. 
ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾੜਹਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ 
Āp pacẖẖāṛėh ḏẖarṯī nāl. 
They throw themselves upon the ground. 
ਗਾਵਨਿ ਗੋਪੀਆ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ॥ 
Gāvan gopī▫ā gāvan kānĥ. 
They sing of the milk-maids, they sing of the Krishnas. 
ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੀਤਾ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਮ ॥ 
Gāvan sīṯā rāje rām. 
They sing of Sitas, and Ramas and kings. 
ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ 
Nirbẖa▫o nirankār sacẖ nām. 
The Lord is fearless and formless; His Name is True. 
ਜਾ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਗਲ ਜਹਾਨੁ ॥ 
Jā kā kī▫ā sagal jahān. 
The entire universe is His Creation. 
ਸੇਵਕ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਕਰਮਿ ਚੜਾਉ ॥ 
Sevak sevėh karam cẖaṛā▫o. 
Those servants, whose destiny is awakened, serve the Lord. 
ਭਿੰਨੀ ਰੈਣਿ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਨਿ ਚਾਉ ॥ 
Bẖinnī raiṇ jinĥā man cẖā▫o. 
The night of their lives is cool with dew; their minds are filled with love for the Lord. 
ਸਿਖੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ 
Sikẖī sikẖi▫ā gur vīcẖār. 
Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these teachings; 
ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਲਘਾਏ ਪਾਰਿ ॥ 
Naḏrī karam lagẖā▫e pār. 
granting His Grace, He carries His servants across. 
ਕੋਲੂ ਚਰਖਾ ਚਕੀ ਚਕੁ ॥ 
Kolū cẖarkẖā cẖakī cẖak. 
The oil-press, the spinning wheel, the grinding stones, the potter's wheel, 
ਥਲ ਵਾਰੋਲੇ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੰਤੁ ॥ 
Thal vārole bahuṯ ananṯ. 
the numerous, countless whirlwinds in the desert, 
ਲਾਟੂ ਮਾਧਾਣੀਆ ਅਨਗਾਹ ॥ 
Lātū māḏẖāṇī▫ā angāh. 
the spinning tops, the churning sticks, the threshers, 
ਪੰਖੀ ਭਉਦੀਆ ਲੈਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਹ ॥ 
Pankẖī bẖa▫uḏī▫ā lain na sāh. 
the breathless tumblings of the birds, 
ਸੂਐ ਚਾੜਿ ਭਵਾਈਅਹਿ ਜੰਤ ॥ 
Sū▫ai cẖāṛ bẖavā▫ī▫ah janṯ. 
and the men moving round and round on spindles - 
ਨਾਨਕ ਭਉਦਿਆ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਅੰਤ ॥ 
Nānak bẖa▫uḏi▫ā gaṇaṯ na anṯ. 
O Nanak, the tumblers are countless and endless. 
ਬੰਧਨ ਬੰਧਿ ਭਵਾਏ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
Banḏẖan banḏẖ bẖavā▫e so▫e. 
The Lord binds us in bondage - so do we spin around. 
ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
Pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ nacẖai sabẖ ko▫e. 
According to their actions, so do all people dance. 
ਨਚਿ ਨਚਿ ਹਸਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਸੇ ਰੋਇ ॥ 
Nacẖ nacẖ hasėh cẖalėh se ro▫e. 
Those who dance and dance and laugh, shall weep on their ultimate departure. 
ਉਡਿ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ਸਿਧ ਨ ਹੋਹਿ ॥ 
Ud na jāhī siḏẖ na hohi. 
They do not fly to the heavens, nor do they become Siddhas. 
ਨਚਣੁ ਕੁਦਣੁ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥ 
Nacẖaṇ kuḏaṇ man kā cẖā▫o. 
They dance and jump around on the urgings of their minds. 
ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਮਨਿ ਭਉ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਉ ॥੨॥ 
Nānak jinĥ man bẖa▫o ṯinĥā man bẖā▫o. ||2|| 
O Nanak, those whose minds are filled with the Fear of God, have the love of God in their minds as well. ||2|| 
 
 
QUESTIONS
1)   For what reasons and what "Intentions" is the dancing referring to?  It describes a group of people that have a name.    However, are these group of people imitating another bunch of people? ...maybe a a group that does something similar with different intention and as an act of serving / praising the lord?
2) Are they serving the lord with their dancing or are they serving their own maya hunger? " (clue is "Rotī▫ā kāraṇ pūrėh ṯāl.")
3)  The shabad continues to describe how other people dance with the daily sounds of grinding stones, the potter's wheel,  oil-press..etc..  This is referring to people that are doing the work of karams as per hukam, but it's not their physical body that is dancing. They ARE dancing in harmony whilst doing Kirat. REMEMBER- DANCING is expression combined with repetition, to the tempo of repeating beat or rhythm.  I
4) Can we see that there 2 groups of people described as dancing. One's dancing in display for intentions and fulfillment of maya hunger and the other's dancing internally whilst doing bhog of daily karams....  These karams are as per hukam and help contribute to the kirat.
ਬੰਧਨ ਬੰਧਿ ਭਵਾਏ ਸੋਇ ॥ 
Banḏẖan banḏẖ bẖavā▫e so▫e. 
The Lord binds us in bondage - so do we spin around. 
ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥ 
Pa▫i▫ai kiraṯ nacẖai sabẖ ko▫e. 
According to their actions, so do all people dance.
The above  describes how we all dance, but it's the "how" and as per "kirat"  that's important here.   Kirat karna, Vand shakna and naam japna  CAN ALL be done simultaneously in the form of dance(Yes, they can!)   The real significance of bhangra moves have a lot of meanings to them; They are about activities whilst doing  kirat (working in farms/fields) , there are  moves that mimic animals of the pastures,  the gadda(tractor),  preparing soil, sowing seeds... reaping the grain..cutting the corn....and many more  You need to think of these bhangra moves and music, minus the polluting lyrics that have infiltrated this traditional folk dance. 
The bani above says" ਪਇਐ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਨਚੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ  "According to their actions, so do all people dance.  and the lines preceding gave details of the different intentions.   Those who ਨਚਿ ਨਚਿ ਹਸਹਿ, (Nacẖ nacẖ hasėh) and will be ਚਲਹਿ ਸੇ ਰੋਇ  are the one's that danced for the physical dehi's intentions. The shabad addresses a few main points directly  that characterize different dancing, ...The "What or Who is dancing? and also the Who is one dancing to?  Is it to EGO of maya, or is it to the Truth of the Niranankar. This all depends on where you consciousness is attached and what your intentions are.
 It indirectly addresses EGO, since the shabad never mentions haumai or ahankar, but EGO is the reason of why One's body dances for intentions of maya, whereas, the other's inner soul dances in harmony whilst doing bhog of it's karams whilst doing sift salah of Satguru (HUKAM) ememeber what Naamdev told Trilochan about printing designs on the sheets whilst he was internally attached to the Lord. ...........

ਹਾਥ ਪਾਉ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਚੀਤੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੨੧੩॥ 
Hāth pā▫o kar kām sabẖ cẖīṯ niranjan nāl. ||213|| 
With your hands and feet, do all your work, but let your consciousness remain with the Immaculate Lord. ||213|| 
Then, why would dancing be a problem if consciousness is NOT on 5 chor, but on Niranjan.   We've been foolishly misled to associate all dancing with nowadays connections to kaam, lust and sexual innuendos. This is because of the lyrics and motives they use to market the dances and songs.
 
Sacred dancing has existed in almost every ancient civilization. The different variants and forms of worship have to be appreciated from all these cultures to understand the meanings of unison and harmony. The arti itself is a representation of the divine cosmic dance that has existed since the beginning and that will continue to do so. 

No, "Void" is NOT pure emptiness/awareness of awareness. And the real thing is beyond this Void. In-fact, this so-called Void is the last attempt of the Mind to deceive the progressing Soul. Many Saints have spoken about this area, which is very dangerous because nothing is going to help there, except the Guru. If one stuck in that region, then there won't be any further births but still stuck in the region.
This is the area where the real Mind resides, this area is beyond the 3 qualities.......in other words, this is the area where Kaal resides (hidden away from all his creation - Kaal's creation); this area was given to Kaal by the God.
Moreover, please do NOT start debating that this is Radhaswami thinking. I mentioned that because these things are discussed by many Saints/Brahmgyani but not much published information, is available; whereas the starters (not that they wanted to start) of Radhaswami path have published and discussed these concepts widely; so it's easier to locate the information. In-fact, its only the Radhaswamis that have explained the Anurag Sagar (by Bhagat Kabir) in great detail. Today's Radhaswamis are entirely different (just like the mainstream Sikhs).
At last if I'm not wrong, then Sant Waryam Singh Jis books would have this information available.

Paapiman, please show me where I've mentioned that this is the excuse to dance? Understand the realy point, as long as your mind is dancing but you're sitting (betraying yourself) in meditation, then what's the use? On the other had if someone is dancing by remembering HIM, then it is good.
Yes, too much physicaly exertion (which does includes any type of dancing, exercising, running etc.) are known to put the mind on spin, but that doesn't mean one should stop exercising and thus missing the whole point: we missed the point that the all the problems are because of mind and all the solutions are to calm the mind. Walking on your interpretation, one would ban dancing, singing, music etc just like the Mughals did. Stop seeing everything in black and white.
Here my point is NOT to prove or disapprove that bhangra and/or giddha is good or not. My point is don't put soo much pressure on do this vs that; this is allowed vs not-allowed. Otherwise, you're bound for failure because you didn't understand the purpose. Purpose is to calm the mind e.g Karma are NOT supposed to take one over the world, but you cannot live without performing karma. Therefore, always try to see good. So, let's try this today: BHANGRA.
On a serious note, you and Satkirin seems to have so much time to post and repeat your limited point of view without ever bothering other's point of view. I wish if I could have so much spare time. I would be better if we all save this time of typing the mind shit to something better for OURSELF.

Its all about finding peace whether it is temporary or permanent Time will tell..atleast for now she is happy with her new found religion. I have no background of Sikhism , Gurbani gave me solace so i turned to Sikhi...i was 17 when movement towards Sikhi started after being given diksha by a monk of good awastha of Ramkrishna mission. ..i started visiting Gurdwara and attending Diwans on a regular basis ..partaking langar ..i was not into doing Nitnem paath ...just Sukhmani Sahib ..there was a mental stage that developed inside  me around 2010 -2011 wherein i started thinking radical..during that time period i disowned every association to anything that would be Hindu. I even wanted to change my religion in the certificate. ..Gradually as i started doing paath this radical thought receded ..the concept of Akaal became more clear ..Aad and Dasam Bani helps me stay strong ..

What you've said is ultimate reality but that kind of vision is possible ONLY when one has already won the war on Maya and have removed all the veils of Illusion (Mal/Vikshape/Avaran). This stage is called Gyan and comes only after the "Purity of Mind" and "Upsana of Guru". Till Gyan stage is not reached, all of what you've said is purely theory and Mind canNOT be controlled that way. Give it a try and you'll see. What we're doing is pretending/faking this theory by thinking (mind is already involved in thinking).
These days majority of Sikhs (and other religions) have gone astray and is following the black-and-white theory, e.g Sikhs claims
We believe in Nirgun and worship Nirgun only. Problem is we don't know the Nirgun, and if Nirgun is not known, then how to worship him? Just concentrate on Shabad and no need to put dhayan on any sakar/physical thing. They don't even acknolwdge the concentration on Sri Guru Granth sahib Ji, even though we all bow to GuruJi. It's saying like I want to hang the clothes on the wall but don't want to put a nail on wall to hold the clothes. i.e we need something to put the dhayan on, in the later stages, that dhayan will be switched to Nirgun but that stage is very far. We see God in all etc., but then we go to Gurdwara to judge the kathakars/kirtinas. The problem is we fail to understand the reality behind the core concepts and just take the facts on face-value. Most people in every religion (ours included i.e Sikhs) believes in Boxed God (God in a box which satisfies certain pre-conceived notions). May be its the way Kalyug works, otherwise there will be Peace, Calm, and Love everywhere!

In total, there are 4 types of Pralayas:

1. NITYA PRALAYA : This takes place every moment, when the atoms that compose the various forms in the universe unite and disperse. e.g Birth and Death of animals, humans etc.

2. NAIMITTIKA PRALAYA : This takes place during Brahma's night in which the three worlds (Bhuh, Bhuvah and Suvah) continue to exist but are made uninhabitable. The souls of individuals also continue to exist to be reincarnated in the next daytime of Brahma. During that period Brahma holds within himself all the beings of the material and the celestial worlds in a suspended state and sleeps.

3. PRAKRITA PRALAYA : It takes place when Brahma completes his 100 years of life span. It is the change of the universe from its present to a latent condition and its dissolution in unmanifested nature, in which no evolution can take place until the dawn of a new manvantara. In this condition of dissolution, the Jivas remaining unliberated lie in a dormant state and get manifested again in the next creation.

4. ATYANTIK PRALAYA : All forms, space, Maya, and time are absorbed into God and God alone remains. All 5 elements merged as follows: Earth->Water->Fire->Air->Sky->Maya->GOD/WAHEGURU. Anyone who actually merges with GOD can be said to be blessed with ATYANTIK kalyan because there is NO coming back to anything once merged with GOD.

Now, some of the mathematics is as follows:
The time of each yug is as follows:

Satya-yuga: 1,728,000 human/solar years OR 4,800 demigod years OR 4 charanas.
Treta-yuga: 1,296,000 human/solar years OR 3,600 demigod years OR 3 charanas.
Dvapara-yuga: 864,000 human/solar years OR 2,400 demigod years OR 2 charanas.
Kali-yuga: 432,000 human/solar years OR 1,200 demigod years OR 1 charanas.

1 cycle of 4 yugs = 1 Mahayug

1 day of Brahma = 1 Kalpa = 1000 Mahayugs = Life span of other devtas = 12,000 years of Devas = 14 manvantara periods each one lasting 71 Mahayugs

A day of Brahma equals
(14 times 71 mahayugas) + (15 x 4 Charanas)
= 994 mahayugas + (60 Charanas)
= 994 mahayugas + (6 x 10) Charanas
= 994 mahayugas + 6 mahayugas
= 1000 mahayugas

Brahma Life span = 100 Brahma years = 311 trillion and 40 billion human years

One interesting fact is that:
1 human year = 1 day of Demigods (6 months day and 6 months night)

When the sun is in the southern side of the universe (summer in the Southern Hemisphere), the demons have day and demigods have night, and vice versa when the sun is in the Northern Hemisphere.

During our one human year, the devtas sleep for 6 months and danav wakes for that 6 months, and during the 6 months when devtas wake - denav sleeps.

The above might explain why some very old people say that good deeds done in particular month carry more fal/fruit/reward as compared to other months. Same thing as in taking bath during Amrit vela has more importance than during day.

According to Puranic accounts, we are now in the twenty-eight yuga cycle of the seventh manvatara period of the present day of Brahma. Brahma is in 51st year of his life span.

One more thing is that first 10,000 years of Kaliyug has increased Bhagti Influence. This is mentioned in mentioned in "Brahma Vaivarta Puran".

Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji also mentioned that after some years of Kaliyug, all the tiraths of this world will cease to function, which mean they will NO longer provide good to visitors because the devtas providing the good will abandom the tiraths.
Babaji has also confirmed that the current life of Kaliyug is around 5000 years.

bhul chuk de maffi
das

Addictions
A long­standing compulsive behavior pattern may be called an addiction, and an addiction lives inside you as a quasi­entity or sub­ personality, an energy field that periodically takes you over completely. It even takes over your mind, the voice in your head, which then becomes the voice of the addiction. It may be saying, “You've had a rough day. You deserve a treat. Why deny yourself the only pleasure that is left in your life?” And so, if you are identified with the internal voice due to lack of awareness, you find yourself walking to the fridge and reaching for that rich chocolate cake. At other times, the addiction may bypass the thinking mind completely and you suddenly find yourself puffing on a cigarette or holding a drink. “How did that get into my hand?” Taking the cigarette out of the packet and lighting it, or pouring yourself a drink were actions performed in complete unconsciousness.
If you have a compulsive behavior pattern such as smoking, overeating, drinking, TV watching, Internet addiction, or whatever it may be, this is what you can do: When you notice the compulsive need arising in you, stop and take three conscious breaths. This generates awareness. Then for a few minutes be aware of the compulsive urge itself as an energy field inside you. Consciously feel that need to physically or mentally ingest or consume a certain substance or the desire to act out some form of compulsive behavior. Then take a few more conscious breaths. After that you may find that the compulsive urge has disappeared ­ for the time being. or you may find that it still overpowers you, and you cannot help but indulge or act it out again. Don't make it into a problem. Make the addiction part of your awareness practice in the way described above. As awareness grows, addictive patterns will weaken and eventually dissolve.
Remember, however, to catch any thoughts that justify the addictive behavior, sometimes with clever arguments, as they arise in you mind. Ask yourself, Who is talking here? And you will realize the addiction is talking. As long as you know that, as long as you are present as the observer of your mind, it is less likely to trick you into doing what it wants.

I think that the awakening might be fantastic (only when one reaches), but the process is very destructive, cruel, and sometimes depressing. Every bit as we know it: be it culture, religion, truth is damn wrong in the real light of Spiritualism; I found the following quote very real.
"Enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier.
Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing through the facade of pretense.
It's the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true." - Adyashanti

I think that the awakening might be fantastic (only when one reaches), but the process is very destructive, cruel, and sometimes depressing. Every bit as we know it: be it culture, religion, truth is damn wrong in the real light of Spiritualism; I found the following quote very real.
"Enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier.
Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing through the facade of pretense.
It's the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true." - Adyashanti

I don't think anyone can "have god reside in your mind"; because He is already there but we cannot find Him. e.g Butter is hidden in the milk but becomes visible only when someone does follow the process of churning.
Same way God is there, it's just a matter of:
* Finding reasons Why we cannot find him?
 - Because we're finding Him in the wrong place.
 - and our Mind does have faults.
* And once we're aware of those, we just need to follow the process of removing those veils.
Sat has already explained what really means by "Raab da mann wich vasna a.k.a Raab nu labh lena", but it comes with KIRPA.

Yes please continue doing meditation with whatsoever technique you're following. Do you see any harm in continuing meditation (exactly the same way you're doing)?
Your efforts (meditation-without-guru or say without-naam-dhan or initiation, or baptism, or whatever name you prefer) will help you in the following way:
- To keep away from bad karma/deeds.
- To clean your mind. You can pour milk in a bowl only if the bowl is clean. So, do meditate, it will help you in direct/indirect way.
Basically clean yourself internally. And the best thing is to do physical seva in Mandir/Gurdwara or in general of any needy, that would help to clean your older bad karma along with check to your ego. And continue meditation along with that. In other words, seva of humanity and meditation is a good recipe.
Don't indulge in this-method-vs-that-method or mine-vs-there. That is the game of illusion. e.g if you're dying with thirst and someone offered you water; you don't ask if the person is from this creed or that creed. Meditation is the act of Selfless Love which is possible only with Faith.
May be search for "Ishwar Puri" in youtube and that might help you on your path.

Isn't this the mind's habit?
Desire to attain the thing which has given us enjoyment/happiness; and there is no enjoyment greater than Spiritual experience. Our Mind thinks (that's the only thing he does) that we can have the same experience if we do all the hard work of meditation and may be if we've less distractions then it would be better.
Yes, in reality it would be better but that's NOT how the Matrix operates.
e.g [ There was method of drawing water from a kind of well in which a wheel is pulled by horses or bulls, and it brings up the water. Once a horseman came with his horse and wanted his horse to drink water. That horse was thirsty and wanted to drink water, but the noise scared the horse and it would jump. So, the horseman asked the proprietor to the well, "Will you please stop this noise so my horse can drink?" The proprietor replied, "But if this noise stops then the water will also stop." Same way if we expect the whole world to behave nicely or have less distractions, and think that then we will be able to meditate, forget it! Or if we expect that we'll get some extra-time apart from our daily chores, then we're wrong. We should do meditation while doing our duties towards our family. ]
The Secret (do NOT tell anyone) is: The sustenance of Spiritual enjoyment does NOT come from our attachment to that Spiritual experience or hard work alone. It comes from Kirpa and Kirpa comes when all of our hard-work/techniques/thinking have exhausted and at the end we understood that there is not other way around it we just Surrender.
All the other things: like kirat-karo, accept the will, do your duty etc. sounds like it is the way to reach higher states, but the point is: These sayings are merely pointers stating that you're just the puppet in the hands of Environment you're in (Matrix/Maya/Illusion). Everything (some had to do hard-work to earn little money and some needs very light work to earn lakhs, diseases, relationships, finances, careers etc.) is bound to our previous karma. So, instead of fighting with the environment to overcome some issues, just accept whatsoever it is AND at the same time continue your seeking; eventually we'll get what you really seek for: Kirpa.
There is another Big question
- Do you have a choice to ignore your duties? I guess not unless one wants to ignore the needs of the near and dear ones and are ready to let them suffer because of our desire of non-desire.
So, at-least for me: I want to go away from these worldly affairs (family, career, and all that) but I do NOT have the guts to leave my duties/punishments as I don't wish my children to suffer. There is a saying in Punjabi: "Gaal paya drum te vajana he penda ha" i.e "You've to perform the task that is given to you against your will"; in other words, here is the brief:
We've to perform our duties (or whatever you call it) because there is no other choice. Secondly, as we've to perform the duty, then why not perform it with happiness and enjoyment. In-fact, perform the duties cheerfully, selflessly, without attachment. It will bring Contentment (believe me it is very great experience) And here are some things that I DO KNOW but do NOT practice and therefore I didn't take advantage of these; but may be you want to. In other words, it is Theory or Borrowed-Knowledge and NOT Self-Knowledge.
How to be always Happy
First create a condition in which we are always happy but that requires human effort. There are 4 happiness giving techniques: Veerag, Patience, Contentment, and Vichar. Contentment is the first and foremost virtue that should be cultivated. It comes only when we have done our duties to our fullest capacity and selflessly without worrying for the results. It is a virtue that always helps and never disappoints the seeker.
Secondly, don't fret over the past and don't be worried about the future. The present is going on.
Thirdly, Happiness is within and the source is the center of consciousness, love, and wisdom. Try to get Self-Knowledge. Life is very short and we should learn to enjoy every moment by remembering the Lord of Life, and always assuming our body to be a shrine of His living presence. We are not body, we are Soul which is always in Bliss.
I guess that's enough of ranting.......

Isn't this the mind's habit?
Desire to attain the thing which has given us enjoyment/happiness; and there is no enjoyment greater than Spiritual experience. Our Mind thinks (that's the only thing he does) that we can have the same experience if we do all the hard work of meditation and may be if we've less distractions then it would be better.
Yes, in reality it would be better but that's NOT how the Matrix operates.
e.g [ There was method of drawing water from a kind of well in which a wheel is pulled by horses or bulls, and it brings up the water. Once a horseman came with his horse and wanted his horse to drink water. That horse was thirsty and wanted to drink water, but the noise scared the horse and it would jump. So, the horseman asked the proprietor to the well, "Will you please stop this noise so my horse can drink?" The proprietor replied, "But if this noise stops then the water will also stop." Same way if we expect the whole world to behave nicely or have less distractions, and think that then we will be able to meditate, forget it! Or if we expect that we'll get some extra-time apart from our daily chores, then we're wrong. We should do meditation while doing our duties towards our family. ]
The Secret (do NOT tell anyone) is: The sustenance of Spiritual enjoyment does NOT come from our attachment to that Spiritual experience or hard work alone. It comes from Kirpa and Kirpa comes when all of our hard-work/techniques/thinking have exhausted and at the end we understood that there is not other way around it we just Surrender.
All the other things: like kirat-karo, accept the will, do your duty etc. sounds like it is the way to reach higher states, but the point is: These sayings are merely pointers stating that you're just the puppet in the hands of Environment you're in (Matrix/Maya/Illusion). Everything (some had to do hard-work to earn little money and some needs very light work to earn lakhs, diseases, relationships, finances, careers etc.) is bound to our previous karma. So, instead of fighting with the environment to overcome some issues, just accept whatsoever it is AND at the same time continue your seeking; eventually we'll get what you really seek for: Kirpa.
There is another Big question
- Do you have a choice to ignore your duties? I guess not unless one wants to ignore the needs of the near and dear ones and are ready to let them suffer because of our desire of non-desire.
So, at-least for me: I want to go away from these worldly affairs (family, career, and all that) but I do NOT have the guts to leave my duties/punishments as I don't wish my children to suffer. There is a saying in Punjabi: "Gaal paya drum te vajana he penda ha" i.e "You've to perform the task that is given to you against your will"; in other words, here is the brief:
We've to perform our duties (or whatever you call it) because there is no other choice. Secondly, as we've to perform the duty, then why not perform it with happiness and enjoyment. In-fact, perform the duties cheerfully, selflessly, without attachment. It will bring Contentment (believe me it is very great experience) And here are some things that I DO KNOW but do NOT practice and therefore I didn't take advantage of these; but may be you want to. In other words, it is Theory or Borrowed-Knowledge and NOT Self-Knowledge.
How to be always Happy
First create a condition in which we are always happy but that requires human effort. There are 4 happiness giving techniques: Veerag, Patience, Contentment, and Vichar. Contentment is the first and foremost virtue that should be cultivated. It comes only when we have done our duties to our fullest capacity and selflessly without worrying for the results. It is a virtue that always helps and never disappoints the seeker.
Secondly, don't fret over the past and don't be worried about the future. The present is going on.
Thirdly, Happiness is within and the source is the center of consciousness, love, and wisdom. Try to get Self-Knowledge. Life is very short and we should learn to enjoy every moment by remembering the Lord of Life, and always assuming our body to be a shrine of His living presence. We are not body, we are Soul which is always in Bliss.
I guess that's enough of ranting.......

Yes please continue doing meditation with whatsoever technique you're following. Do you see any harm in continuing meditation (exactly the same way you're doing)?
Your efforts (meditation-without-guru or say without-naam-dhan or initiation, or baptism, or whatever name you prefer) will help you in the following way:
- To keep away from bad karma/deeds.
- To clean your mind. You can pour milk in a bowl only if the bowl is clean. So, do meditate, it will help you in direct/indirect way.
Basically clean yourself internally. And the best thing is to do physical seva in Mandir/Gurdwara or in general of any needy, that would help to clean your older bad karma along with check to your ego. And continue meditation along with that. In other words, seva of humanity and meditation is a good recipe.
Don't indulge in this-method-vs-that-method or mine-vs-there. That is the game of illusion. e.g if you're dying with thirst and someone offered you water; you don't ask if the person is from this creed or that creed. Meditation is the act of Selfless Love which is possible only with Faith.
May be search for "Ishwar Puri" in youtube and that might help you on your path.