Praise Of Devi -Passage From Dasam Granth

[jvalasingh]

http://sikh-reality.blogspot.com/2010/05/praise-of-devi-passage-from-dasam.html

[chatanga1]

tell us who the devi is javala singh ji.

[SAadmin]

shakti force to destruct and have an ablitiy to merge panj tat in bhrmand in any sargun form- bijli, bhaugati, figure with 10 heads/10 shastars, narsingha avtar, mach avtar.

[jvalasingh]

Please listen to Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji's katha here on Bhagauti Astotar for clarification on Bhagauti/Devi/Bhagvati/Chandi etc

http://sikh-reality.blogspot.com/2010/01/bhagauti-astotar-paat-is-very-rare.html

[Silence]

I appreciate your seva, but are these sides of things really what needs to be promoted when Dasam Bani is being so intensley attacked at the moment?

[shaheediyan]

Are you suggesting the truth should be 'tailored' to suit? Hasn't this been done enough already over the past 100 years, and is in fact beign undone now....?

It's funny seeing how people tip toe around this subject. Devi, in whatever form, be it in Snaatan or Sikh dharma represents one thing and one thing only.

That some schools do murti pooja to the same figure (or variation) who is shown being surrounded by Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind doesn't change the fact that it is in fact the 'shakti' that is being poojed. We pooj the form of shastar to represent Devi but should not be offended by or find the Lady on a Lion or Peackock image grotesque. Thought needs to applied to the fact that so many puratan Saroops of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (and I believe Adi Granth Sahib) have depcitions of the Snaatan image of Devi and not of a Khanda.

It's a ll a big fuss over nothing, as Giani Inderjit Singh Ji points out. These discussions have turned nasty in the past here, but Bhai Jvala Singhs blog seemed to have brought an air of respect/silence to the whole subject, good on him.

[SAadmin]

I appreciate your seva, but are these sides of things really what needs to be promoted when Dasam Bani is being so intensley attacked at the moment?

Sat is Sat. Satya does not need to be hidden just because few insecure ignorant paranoid individuals get their knickers in a twist and cannot fathom the concept of nirgun and sargun when they hear shakat and shakti roop of akaal.

[SAadmin]

There are two types of sri dasam granth upasakhs:

One in course of fighting with anti dasam granth sahib intentionally or unintentionally misinterpret sri dasam granth sahib so in arguments other side does not edge over them.

Second are those who represent sri dasam granth sahib ji after many years of studying concept of sargun and nirgun, see and study sargun and nirgun form of Vahiguroo without any boundaries of dharam, religious ideologies, any Victorian abrahamic influence.

[Kaljug]

It's worth reading pjs veer ji's comments on the same topic on Sikh Sangat here:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/53001-beautiful-old-manscript-of-dasam-granth/

K.

[jvalasingh]

Everyone, even believers in Dasam Granth, have become so allergic to the term Devi, or the real concept of Devi it is shocking.

I am happy with Sikhawareness, there are so many intelligent people who do not have a knee-jerk reaction to the term Devi.

Check Sikh Sangats thread here - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/53001-beautiful-old-manscript-of-dasam-granth/

I'm getting the usual, "Hindu Matt" comments

[jaikaara]

Are you suggesting the truth should be 'tailored' to suit? Hasn't this been done enough already over the past 100 years, and is in fact beign undone now....?

It's funny seeing how people tip toe around this subject. Devi, in whatever form, be it in Snaatan or Sikh dharma represents one thing and one thing only.

That some schools do murti pooja to the same figure (or variation) who is shown being surrounded by Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind doesn't change the fact that it is in fact the 'shakti' that is being poojed. We pooj the form of shastar to represent Devi but should not be offended by or find the Lady on a Lion or Peackock image grotesque. Thought needs to applied to the fact that so many puratan Saroops of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (and I believe Adi Granth Sahib) have depcitions of the Snaatan image of Devi and not of a Khanda.

It's a ll a big fuss over nothing, as Giani Inderjit Singh Ji points out. These discussions have turned nasty in the past here, but Bhai Jvala Singhs blog seemed to have brought an air of respect/silence to the whole subject, good on him.

i salute you for this veer ji ! you have said is absolutely true. i just have never understood whats the big fuss about . we are from hindustan and unfortunately for these guys our gurus couldnt think of greek goddesses like hera, aphrodite, venus. they knew just the shakti swaroops of hindustan. for them they were ladies with immense power on lions and tigers.

the atitude of such people is anything hindu is untouchable but why the hell dont you think that the dharma is not the sole property of the hindus. it is of all mankind.

there is so much negativity with the thought of being associated with hindu belief. guys try and understand the belief of people is dated back to the tribal times even before they were labeled as hindu.

Edited May 20, 2010 by jaikaara

[Guest zulu]

i SALUTE YOU FOR THIS VEER JI ! YOU HAVE SAID IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I JUST HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHATS THE BIG FUSS ABOUT...

mod note : Don't post in caps

6- Posting in CAPS.

Posting in CAPS is not only considered as shouting and rude, it's also very hard to read and makes the poster seem very immature. Please refrain and use CAPS LOCK wisely.

Edited May 20, 2010 by zulu

[jaikaara]

tuhaada aades sar aakhon te ! :)changes made !

[Mithar]

I appreciate your seva, but are these sides of things really what needs to be promoted when Dasam Bani is being so intensley attacked at the moment?

You got a point bro. It is good the seva Jvala Singh is doing. But the timing of this new article is not exactly perfect. This can be be used as a weapon against the Dasam Granth by the Kala Afghanists, and they can say "see! Dasam Granth promotes Devi worship"

[laalsingh]

1. ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਸਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ। ਜੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਬੀੜ ਤੇ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤਾਂ ਲੱਗੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤਾਂ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਮਤਲਬ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜਕ ਹੈ।

2. ਸਿੱਖ ਧਰਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੀਤੀ ਰਿਵਾਜ ਹਨ। ਬਹੁਤ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਖੁਦ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕੀਤੇ ਤੇ ਕਈ ਬਾਅਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਆ ਗਏ। ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਸਿੱਖ ਬਹੁਤ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਜੁਗੋ ਜੁੱਗ ਅਟੱਲ ਗੁਰੂ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਗਵਾਈ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਹੈ। ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜਣੀ ਹੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ, ਸੁਣੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਕਹਿ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ? ਇਹਨਾਂ ਮਸਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ (ਗੁਰੂ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ) ਦੀ ਕਸੌਟੀ ਤੇ ਤੋਲੋ। ਜੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜਣ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜੋ।

[jaikaara]

This needs to be understood that the Sri Dasam Granth sahib should not be taken as just promoting Devi worship.

Laalsingh ji please read the Gurbani literature first, be it any of our Param pujiya Granths. DEVI is the symbol of Akaal Purakh's shakti. This has been the culture of Hindustan.

Read Sukhmani Sahib, there are so many references to Sri Krishan ji.

If there are no such references how will there be any literature ?

The Gurus have composed all this due to the presence of literature of this land. I again repeat that the Gurus couldnt take reference of greek goddesses which perhaps might be more appealing for you.

The spiritual journey be it which ever Granth or samparday of hindustan has its journey from Concrete to Abstract.

Today's so called hinduism has lost this direction and are more engrossed in concepts borrowed from foriegn lands.

The power of Akaal purakh is displayed in various forms like Sri Krishan ji , Chandi maa , Shiv ji .

To make understand the concept of Akaal the Gurus have taken reference of the various messangers of Akaal.

I used to do the Saptashati Chandi paath composed by Rishi Markandey, during the Navraate. There too the devas attacked by the asuras approach the Devi, the Devi is in Akaal Nirankaaar Swaroop and after hearing the plea of the devas takes the form after which the devas give her the various shastars.

So here again the vedic concept of Devi is formally Nirankaar. What i belive is to add a form during this stage it has been said that the Devi reaches there to bathe in the holy river.

Please understand that Akaal's ustat is not possible without this. If i tell you Akaal is powerful the most powerful, had you been athiest you would question me; " show me where is the power ??" i or anybody cannot display the power of Akaal who is without form wihtout giving references to the messangers of Akaal.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

ਸੰਕਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਦੇਵੀ ਜਪਿਓ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿਆ ॥

संकरि ब्रहमै देवी जपिओ मुखि हरि हरि नामु जपिआ ॥

Sankari barahmai ḏevee japio mukhi hari hari naamu japiaa.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਭੀਨਾ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਇਆ ॥੨॥

हरि हरि नामि जिना मनु भीना ते गुरमुखि पारि पइआ ॥२॥

Hari hari naami jinaa manu bẖeeaa te gurmukhi paari paiaa. ||2|| SGGS Ang. 995

I have a curiosity to know. Is Devee Japping allowed for Sikhs?

Balbir Singh

[Only five]

Are you suggesting the truth should be 'tailored' to suit? Hasn't this been done enough already over the past 100 years, and is in fact beign undone now....?

It's funny seeing how people tip toe around this subject. Devi, in whatever form, be it in Snaatan or Sikh dharma represents one thing and one thing only.

That some schools do murti pooja to the same figure (or variation) who is shown being surrounded by Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind doesn't change the fact that it is in fact the 'shakti' that is being poojed. We pooj the form of shastar to represent Devi but should not be offended by or find the Lady on a Lion or Peackock image grotesque. Thought needs to applied to the fact that so many puratan Saroops of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib (and I believe Adi Granth Sahib) have depcitions of the Snaatan image of Devi and not of a Khanda.

It's a ll a big fuss over nothing, as Giani Inderjit Singh Ji points out. These discussions have turned nasty in the past here, but Bhai Jvala Singhs blog seemed to have brought an air of respect/silence to the whole subject, good on him.

Did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji worship diety/ies and/or did/is telling his Sikhs to worship deity/ies?

[jvalasingh]

This whole thing kind of blew up on Sikhsangat.com with the emergence of various threads talking about Devi etc. Yet no one is willing to listen to the katha by Giani Inderjit Singh Ji about the whole CONCEPT of devi in Sikhi. Seems like they just want to do badnami of the blog and me for posting that photograph.

Thanks Sikhawareness for possessing an open mind and having a knee-jerk reaction due to the picture.

[dalsingh101]

Thanks Sikhawareness for possessing an open mind and having a knee-jerk reaction due to the picture.

hehehe

[shaheediyan]

Only 5, read my post again. Sheran-vali is shakti, Shastar are shakti, Durga is Shastar, Shastar are Bhagauti.

Shakti is Akaal Purkhs power, has been explained in the form of Chandi (whether you believe this to literal or metaphorical for our understanding, makes no difference at all), Guru Gobind Singh gives namaskaar to the destroyer of Demons, the Shastar and Chandi - one and same.

In one Jvala Singhs translations, it was written, Singhs are the rides of Chandi, it would do well to really do vichaar on this phenominal quote - only then do we understand how the likes of Baba Deep Singh invoked the spirit of Chandi to cause havoc on the enemies of Darbar Sahib.

A big fuss about nothing. Sikhs do not sit in front of a statue of Chandi and pooj her, they pooj the real Chandi - the magnificent power of Vaheguru - which is extant in the very real power of the sword.

But this does not take away the power/beauty of the poetry and/or imagery of Chandi which has been used for millenia and which was caefully included in our very own Gurbani by the Puratan Khalsa.

Edited May 22, 2010 by shaheediyan

[dalsingh101]

A big fuss about nothing. Sikhs do not sit in front of a statue of Chandi and pooj her, they pooj the real Chandi - the magnificent power of Vaheguru - which is extant in the very real power of the sword.

How long before this changes?

I have a keshdhari uncle (masur) back home who now poojes Chandhi in this way. When my cousin questioned him on it, he said that this is what our ancestors did.

Wonder where he got that idea from?

Edited May 22, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Jvalasingh Jee!

You wrote "Yet no one is willing to listen to the katha by Giani Inderjit Singh Ji about the whole CONCEPT of devi in Sikhi."

I heard this kathaa. Giani Ji in the beginning explains that Bhagautee's roop is kirpaan. Without roop Bhagautee is Shaktee.

Quote "Thanks Sikhawareness for possessing an open mind and having a knee-jerk reaction due to the picture."

I have a curiosity to know. Why the painter did not paint a kirpaan (sword) to represent Bhagautee in the picture?

Balbir Singh

[kdsingh80]

How long before this changes?

I have a keshdhari uncle (masur) back home who now poojes Chandhi in this way. When my cousin questioned him on it, he said that this is what our ancestors did.

Wonder where he got that idea from?

Their are plenty of sikhs in cities who do this.They worship devi and also hear mata de bhajan.when I was living in joint family their were relatives who were quite orthodox yet they use to belive that Guru gobind singh ji actually worshipped devi because of their limited knowledge of Dasam granth and what they heard from Gyani's in Hemkunt or some other place

[dalsingh101]

All I know is, we can go on about sargun and nirgun aspects of Waheguru but when we start to put focus on devtay in place of the God that is conceptualised in Mool Mantar, we possibly start to stray onto dodgy territory. I guess this boils down to whether we have any theological boundaries in Sikhi with what has evolved into the wider Indic dharam, and what these boundaries and differences are?

The way I understand it, what some people are claiming here is that devi is one manifestation of the destructive/avenging/protective physical forces emanating from God, manifest in God's creation. As well as being represented as the lady with lots of arms and her tongue sticking out, who rides a tiger, this is also represented by the sword in Khalsa iconography/symbology.

I don't know if I'm under a misapprehension, but from my limited grasp of bani in SGGS ji, the emphasis seems to be on contemplating and meditating on the nirgun? Do we have any sanction to focus on sargun representations?

I hope better informed people's than myself will share their opinions on the matter.

Addition: Sorry, I must add. Is this representation via the armed women on the tiger one that is strictly allegorical or metaphorical or something that is considered to be a literally existing entity?

Edited May 22, 2010 by dalsingh101