Mooorakh

Yes they call it mann nu maaya vallu kutna.. To beat it away from thoughts... Thas a jugti too

Yes they call it mann nu maaya vallu kutna.. To beat it away from thoughts... Thas a jugti too

Bhai Ajit Singh ji stayed in Moga for quite some time with Bhai Seva Singh ji and learnt the practical from him. The aggressive simran is just baikhri bani. Loud fast simran to wake the mind and get it to listen to our own voice as it has been asleep for the 4 ages.

@Jageera veer.  I can try translating it for you.  Pls all, correct me wherever required.🙏
1. If it's a moving river or if it's a calm lake - water 💧 it is,,  similarly it's 'chit'- your concious state-  stable or not.
2. If you can differentiate between 'samadhi'and 'uthaan' then that's  'asamadhi' and if you can find and feel a place which is equivalent to them then that's Sehaj samadhi**
3.if you are aware of 'Bhrahm' in all that's Brahmkaar like water in each wave is water anyway
** in his servant veer ji and lucky veerji's conversation somewhere I remember reading this kind of experience  where he says he was at a different plane.  

WJKK WJKF Veer ji you should do ardas or at least say the names of our Guru Sahib Ji before starting any simran or nitnem as it will help give you strength to do paath simran nitnem as nobody is as powerful as Waheguru so try to do ardas. Rest just try to listen to as much katha,kirtan etc as you can. 
 
As dass suffers from migraines its not nice to have so i can imagine reading your posts and you must be feeling veer ji.

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

Ha ha.. I am sorry but i am the wrong person to ask this question. I may demotivate you, if I answer this question honestly. Please don't follow me on this. I am very irregular and bad at sitting for Simran particularly. 
I love Banis more. Listen to katha etc. But simran i have just started listening to simran audios to make me sit for simran and I dose off pretty easily. So i am sorry please don't follow me. 
Try doing it all day as Simranjeet singh ji says while working, travelling, walking, driving - whatever you do.
((Hath  paa-o kar kaam sabh cheet niranjan naal. ||213|| With your hands and feet, do all your work, but let your consciousness remain in his feet all the time)) 
waheguru! 🙏

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

Wow! Eho jehia saakhiya helps all to build their faith
Thanks🌹

I'm hearing a lot recently about breath retention with simran i.e. kumbakh from a number of different sources. I heard about this many years ago but never gave much attention to it.
Gurbani contains the pangti:
When the breath was held in 
jab kumbhak bharipur leenaa.
 
then the anhad sound began to vibrate.
tah baajay anhad beenaa.
 
Sant Waryam Ji Singh gave this instruction.
Left Inhale 3 recitations of Waheguru 
Hold (x2) 6 recitations of Waheguru 
Exhale 3 recitations of Waheguru 
 
Guru Maa gave this instruction (number represents the number of times you recite the mantar). Start with the lowest set then work yourself up as your endurance increases.
Inhale    1           2          3
Hold     4            8          12
Exhale   8          16        24
Hold     2            4          6
 
Bhai Simranjeet Singh Tohana and other gurmukhs from Gurmat Meditation are also saying that one should practice this breath retention when thoughts are causing issues. They don't give counts but just say do what is comfortable for each individual.
e.g. Inhale, hold breath at navel and jap Waheguru as many times as you can, then exhale. Take few normal breaths then repeat.
Anyone doing this is part of their practice? I'm not very good at it as my lungs are not that good at holding the breath. Probably need to practice slowly.

Bhai Amrik Singh explains the panj shabad
Akath Katha_Bhai Amrik Singh Ji_04192021 Panj Shabads Explained.m4a
Here is the shabad he quotes
 
panch sabad nirmaa-il baajay. 
dhulkay chavar sankh ghan gaajay. (ang 974)
 
Dhulkay - Sound of drum Chavar - Shu shu sound like chaur sahib Sankh - Sound of conch shell Ghan - Sound of heavy mallet striking metal Gaajay - Sound of thunder
 
 

I've been listening to Bhai Simranjeet's Tohana recordings and following points stood out to me. Thought I would share.
You can find the original recordings here :
 
From recording 6-April-2021:
1st yudh is with thoughts in the mind and this battle is fought with the Gurmantar.
2nd yudh is with falling asleep at dev lok stage whilst we are trying to listen to anhad shabads and merge in Sach. The dhoots try and put us in sleep and dreams to stop us progressing.
When you hear crickets (bhinday), birds chirping, sehaj dhun this is the first stage of dev lok avasta.
Those who enter sehaj whilst listening to shabad and experience amrit ras have risen above dev lok.
Those who have transcended sleep have entered next stage.
Those who travel in sunn mandal instead of dreams of bhavjal are mukht.
Those who know before entering this physical world what instructions/hukam were given by Waheguru before they came each day are mukht.
Those who know how mind and body are made and how they are united are mukht.
 
From recording 7th April 2021:
4 Avastas of Naam/Shabad (What stage are you?)
1.You can hear the anhad sounds internally in the ears. 2.You know how to listen to anhad shabads with the guidance of gurmukhs. 3.You know how to merge into the shabads and become shabad roop. 4.You know how to play with the shabads in Agam and able to keep your focus on them during the day when in Tregun maya.   If you have doubts then you cannot progress beyond Dev lok even if you hear shabads. In Dev lok anhad sounds are heard, but you still have doubts or have not overcome all your vices.  
Simran + Viraag = Kirpa of Waheguru
 
DO NOT GIVE UP OR BE PESSIMISTIC THAT YOU CAN MAKE IT. THOSE THAT HAVE A PESSIMISTIC OUTLOOK WILL NEVER MAKE IT! (Heard this from a number of Gurmukhs recently)
DO NOT HAVE BELIEF THAT SWITCHING GURMUKHS ALL THE TIME WILL YIELD FASTER KIRPA AND PROGRESS. HAVE FAITH (BHAROSA) IN YOURSELF OTHERWISE YOU ARE JUST LOOSING YOUR OWN SELF CONFIDENCE. YOU NEED TO MAKE THE EFFORT YOURSELF UNDER ONE TEACHER!
Keep doing quiet gentle Simran in the background whilst listening to anhad shabads. Eventually you will merge in the shabads and receive Amrit from them.

Worth listening Gurmukho. 🙏 Explains how to jap gurmantar and how to switch to anhad when mind goes to sunn. Anhad shabads explained etc. What sehaj dhun sounds like...
 

Waheguru Ji
No, not placing any time limit or any goal per day.  Just want to do the maximum and to see if the mind is listening to the Mantar.
Will be doing a combination of baikhari and antargat. It will all depend on what state the mind is in. If the mind is noisy and too many thoughts then baikhari.  If the mind is calm then switch to antargat. 
The main goal is to make the mind sit and listen to the dhun of the Mantar. 

I'm just going to share some personal info and tips of how to try and counteract our own personal obstacles in simran.

There are times when you just can't settle in, no matter how hard you try. On the other hand there are times when we settle right in without making much effort.

Like everyone else, I have had very early mornings where I get up all psyched and ready to go battle the 5 thieves in the day ahead. Then after doing japji when i try and settle in to the simran...........Nothing !!
The mind will wander.., i will start again........ and....... nothing again.. ...This then becomes an ongoing cycle and I will look at the clock and think ''why have i wasted 15 minutes trying to settle in.''?

Sometimes, I tell myself that it's not going to happen now and I should maybe attempt later on. Whereas other times I will be adamant that I should be doing it, because even if i try going back to sleep.....I won't.!

It almost becomes a corkscrew effect, because if I try and analyze what thoughts are coming in, they can be the thought of 'why can't I settle in, I was fine yesterday, i've slept, i'm fresh...''...etc
So you end up thinking about your reason of not focusing, which itself prevents you focusing further....


I'm sure we have our own suggestions of what may work for us personally, but I thought I might suggest a few that i've tried successfully, that maybe you could try and think of next time !

1) I start with just taking a real deep breath in and filling your chest up.
2) Hold your breath and suspend the chest, and try keep a stillness.
-You should feel a settling in silence from within.
3) Then let the breath out slowly when you feel comfortable.
(But don't hold it too long so that you reach a maximum point of where you have to get a massive sigh of relief when letting it out)
4) Repeat this about 4 times OR until you feel that little space of inner quietness and stillness when suspending/holding.

Usually this should work and give you that 'tuning in' kick to get going.


****If this doesn't help, then I usually think back to what I used to do when I started in the earlier days ?
For me, I tend to just picture a mental image of my favorite Guru Nanak portrait or some other Guruji picture in the house.

NOTE- this is not ''idol worship'' stuff,- but a point of focus.
The worship process starts when you bring the gurmantar in, in my opinion, i have never seen it as manmat !



****Another little tip that could be useful after you have started and then seem to drift away is to-
....Just open your eyes and gaze right in front of you without moving your eyes around or looking around the room.
- Just look at whatever object is in front of you for only a split second, and then close your eyes back.

****-I usually put my focus to a central point in between the eyebrows and slightly higher (agna chakra area).
-Just look for this little dot of light or even a dot that is darker than the background screen you see.
-When you see it keep your eyes on this, as it will help keep the eyes still.
.....I know it gets painful for some people to look at that point, if so you could just look at any central point lower down in stead. This can be the bridge between eyes or the tip of your nose.

****Another method that I sometimes revert to is to put your Dhian on navel whilst listening to the 'Waheguru' gurmantar.
This is useful if you are doing the saas graas /saas graas I explained in ealier post where the navel pull in/out is being used.
I used to find this very useful when i started saas graas because i would get the sequence of -'navel in and wahe'- the wrong way round. The dhian on navel would help keep the correct sequence as well as the simran itself.


NOTE- the above few techniques are about focus whilst paying attention to the sound/dhun of gurmantar.
It's not happening if your dhian is on the navel/3rd eye and you are not paying attention to ''Wahe-Guru''

I will add some more little tips/techniques that i have found useful if you guys find these useful.
Even now, I find that sometimes you forget what to do if you can't focus. So, it's a good idea to 'revise' these like a college student to remember them when needed.
I often read through tips/techniques every now and again as a little refresher course.

My Understanding of saas graas and saas saas simran
It's important to try and understand what Swaas graas and swaas swaas is firstly.
But even more importantly, we should understand a little about what baikhri, madhma, pasant and para mean.
For these explanations, we have some very good info in one post that has been displayed on a number of threads and below is just one thread that you can access this same info for reference.

NOTE- just to simplify.........
Baikhri- is doing jap loudly
Madhma- is quietly, like whisper.
Pasant- is silent jap, where there is no sound out from mouth.
Para- is more further, when YOU are not making the effort to say, but waheguru himself is speaking-This borders/overlaps on further to anhad and rom rom (auto mode)
Before we even attempt rom rom, we have to SET the saas graas and saas saas as primary foundations.
I know there can be a lot of confusion between the two, and I never quite understood the difference for a long time.
But from what I gather and the approach I made, I believe it to be as described below (in brief)
Saas Graas
This is done using gurmantar with BOTH breaths.
1) Breath in is ''Wahe'' along with slight pull of navel in.
2) Breath out is ''Guru'' along with relaxing of navel(comes back outwards)
In between (1) and (2), is an important space of silence or void, that one should try and maintain each breath in and out.
This should be a space of no thoughts in between, but you still have your dhyan there !
So, in effect it will sound like-...
1- inhale ''wahe''
2- HOLD, and then
3- exhale ''Guru''
It should appear as.......Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...etc....
Practice, practice, practice ...until you are doing this until you can bring ALL thoughts just down to One single thought,and then none !
then next you move onto-
Saas Saas-
1st STAGE
Again, the same gurmantar and breathing technique used, BUT only step 1) from above, while inhaling WITHOUT saying 'wahe' with tongue !
so,......
1) Inhale in with SILENT internal 'wahe' with breath and navel inwards
2) Exhale with 'Guru' out and relaxing navel outwards.
Therefore, you are doing the same as saas graas, but the only sound from tongue should be ''Guru' coming out on exhale, but the gaps, pace and lengths would be the same as if you were saying the 'wahe' as well.
In effect, it will sound like...-
1- Breathe in, (no sound except of breath)
2- Hold for a second
3- Breathe out with 'Guru' sound.
repeat.
It should appear as ..Inhale.. silence... 'Guru', .. Inhale..silence...Guru', ..Inhale..silence..'Guru'...etc.
Practice, practice and practice.. Again make the goal of killing the thoughts and using that void of silence to help steady mind.
2nd STAGE
Eventually you want to get to just doing the breathing without any slight tongue movements.
ie. ... breathe in..slight hold...breath out..... and while doing this you are silently japping Wahe-(in) and Guru-(out) by mentally incorporating the gurmanter in every saas.........this is Saas Saas simran.
The 1st stage was a build up the 2nd stage where there should only be the sound of Breath in and Breath out now (only hear the saas) and the gurmantar is actually in your breath and you can hear it yourself but there is no tongue/sound making movement. Therfore, you will hear it, but others will only hear your rhythmic breathing.
Personally, I think it is easier to always start with saas graas and then progress to saas saas, in every simran session.
Whist also going from baikri to pasant/silent jap.
With time, you will find you start going deeper and deeper whilst listening to the gurmantar.
The other key is to listen,listen and listen.
What I have given above is just the way that I was doing it after researching and reading from all other sources. Everyone can vary it slightly to suit their needs in order to help them get rid of the thoughts and HOLD that mind there.
Once you really start listening to the jap and it starts embedding itself within you, then with Waheguru's kirpa, you shall start hearing the anhad/naad/primordial/celestial sounds or Waheguru's voice itself !
Please don't take the above as official simran rules or anything, because they are just my own final conclusions of what I ended up doing in the end after playing about with all sorts of other jugtees and techniques. They may be of some help to some to some of you who are going around in circles trying to settle in that little comfort zone where you feel some decent progress.

Yesterday as I was listening to kirtan very intently my mind sort of went blank the only thing that was in my mind was the kirtan everything else was dead it only lasted less than 5 seconds but felt very good there was also a warmth in my chest area as this was going on. Was there any spiritual significance behind this or do you guys think it was only my brain playing tricks on me has this happened to any of you?

Been keeping busy and not had much time to come on here.
@Mooorakh ji, Yes I like the way your approach is. It's an extremely fine line between sleep and sunn whilst in bed at night. You only really know 'after' you come out of the state of whether you were there or not.  However, there are also many dream states -or what we may think are supna- that are actually planes/avsasthas of where we are completely jagat.  

I am also ready to help. 

Hi yes i am willing to talk veer ji

Nice discussion ! And a very important one indeed cos most of us face this during our journey towards bhakti.
I even created a separate thread  on sleep during meditation a year back I guess. Now what I have realised is ( I stand to be corrected- that there is
a very thin line between sunn and sleep. Since childhood we have been made acquainted with sleep but never knew or heard what sunn is... 
Sunn is a state of being. They also call it awareness but we often mix it with sleep. When we say i have no idea where i was for those many hours- thst is we were probably thoughtless. That's good news "> cos that's sunn. All those hours get counted in our bhakti. 
The only way that i have realised till now to differentiate is follow your progress. If your heart inside is happy even when things are bad or worse outside. You are on the right track. I myself feel dancing inside on the tones of scolding from my elders  when you start doubting your own sanity sometimes. Its funny but true,!
Just ask yourself when you wake up from that state where you were and if the answer is you really don't know then that's good but if there were thoughts -  that was harchandauri maya so keep walking... And praying for him to help you as we are all his children.. and tend to fall .... 
 
@Lucky veeeji pls comment. Where are you 😶

I don't agree with this message people are getting from somewhere that you should fall asleep.
Sunn is the space between sleep and wake, it's not the same as sleep.