shaheediyan

Millions of Sri Krishnas, Sri Ram Chandras, millions of planets, millions of dimensions, millions of planes of existence... the references in Gurbani are not scientific or historical - they are supposed to be understood outside of academic thought - the point is to show us that it is beyond our meagre comprehension - yet our haumai still entertains us and we continue to force understanding.

The question re Guru Nanak Dev Ji goes back to the debate of whether individuality continues to exist seperately after the soul leaves the body.
Sant Jagjeet Singh has answered these questions perfectly in my opinion -All are part of the same - and merge with the same - they only continue to exist in our minds as a tool for our learning and aspiration, and we have darshan of Parmatma in that formn which is dear to us.

Ultimately there is only one entity/personality in existence.

Last night whilst listening to the ‘history making’ live broadcast which was also apparently watched by 999,999 of my kin... Sant Hari Singh Ji (who were on air for a few minutes just before Baba Ranjit Singh), were doing excellent kathaa on amrit. They mentioned that Guru Gobind singh had said that anyone who took Khande de Pahul and was not able to achieve mukti in this lifetime (due to weak rehit – and therefore weak spiritual progression etc) would be born into a Gursikh household (as many times as necessary) for the next 10,000 years until they achieved their purpose.

Does anyone where this quote is sourced from?

Also, does anyone have a schedule of how long Sant Hari Singh will be here and where they will be doing kathaa?

Thanks in advance.

Also, I am sure I have heard Sant Jagjit Singh Ji relaying that Hosi Bi Sach is Mool Mantar. May be someone familiar with their kathaa can dig the audio up for this.

Yes of course its about focus, which is why every single repition should be done with pyaar and dhyaan. The target is simply a way of ensuring you put the effort/hours in, which is important (same as practice in any discipline).

Its a method all the Mahapurkh have used, and one which they promoted to sangatan. I respect people in their areas fo expertise - one can only know the relevance and effect of something when one has allowed themseles to experience it. The experience is amazing. And it leads from one thing to another. It creates a discplined and passionate mindset which is then transpoable to increasing learning/bhagti/shakti in other areas.

Many people do not have an iron will, which is why these methods have been invented, the 1st stage is target, the last stage is someone being immersed in 24/7 bani/simran.

Veer Ji,

Nearly all the well known Mahapurkh, were well known for completing chalisai (themselves). Namely, this is what they all did when they went visited Hazur Sahib.

Baba Balvinder Singh Nanaksar Valai (Hazur Sahib) are in my part of town at the moment (South London), and a few us are participating in a group chalisa, we will complete it in a 6 days, in time for a special divaan on Saturday celebrating the Jeevani of Sants.

To complete one by one self is a huge/difficult task, which would require huge devotion and dyaan and discipline.

The traditional way to keep count is to use a mala. Sava lakh mool mantars / 40 days = 3,125 per day. If you use a mala, then that is rotations of an 108 mala per day. A Mool Mantar (for normal people like me) at good speed with focus would take 10 seconds. That’s 6 per minute, 360 per hour. That is 8hours 50 minutes per day x 40 days. You get the picture! Its clear to see why its usually Mahapurkh who accomplish such great feats. That’s not to say you or me can’t, it just depends on how deep your desire is and what you are prepared to sacrifice. It depends on your responsibilities i.e. work, kids, other commitments etc, you still have to do your 7 basic baniyan etc etc.

Personally I would recommend doing a group chalisa, if there are 4 of you, then that = just over 2 hours commitment per day, which is realistic. Then you can build your way up, obviously much depends on your surti and kamai etc, as I am sure jeevan valai can easily repeat Mool Mantars at astonishing speeds...

Also a friend of mine uses some mechanical counter device, not sure what it is called, but it press the button each time you complete a mantar and it clocks it, easier than mala to count. I am a traditionalist, so prefer the mala method.

Hope that little helps.

Cool, look forward to it.

Swami Parmanand is not really a Nirmala, but rather a Vedandist who recognises the same elements in Gurmat. Their Gurdev was Akhandanand Maharaj.

They certainly do sangat with Nirmalai Sants and learn from them, but they are not part of the Nirmala Upsampryada.

Swami Ji's pravachan on simran/bhagti/dhyaan are awesome, I would highly recommend coming and having his darshan for the remaining few days at Bhai Daljit Singh Nirmalas house in Tividale - 6am sharp.

They will also be at Nanaksar Taath - Wolverhampton fro the 2nd to 4th Sep - 7.30pm to 8.30pm.

I used to ponder over these sorts of questions in the past - but Gurbani itself has changed my perception of the importance and relevance of these matters:

ਇਕ ਘੜੀ ਨ ਮਿਲਤੇ ਤਾ ਕਲਿਜੁਗੁ ਹੋਤਾ ॥

For me, any other understanding of the word Kalyug is irrelevant - especially for Sikhs of Gurbani - I have obviously only looked at an element of the set question - but its all relevant. Looking for scientific answers simply distracts one from the 'purpose' of the Sikh marg.

Are "Guru Kian Sakhian", not known to be composed by Sarup Singh Kaushish in 1790, based on the Vahis? I "think" they are the basis of sau sahki, if not could someone correct me.

The current version is based Giani Garja Singh's work, which was beased on a copy of a translation made by Chhaijju Singh Kaushik in 1869. Original Sakhian were written in Bhattakshri are totalled 112 sakhian.

Enough scope for inaccuracies to seep in I think, particularly as they mention that 10th Master gave amrit to himself, that he bestowed the 5 k's (including keski) and reference is made to the modern version of the ardaas....

Thats not to say that there are no educational/historical facts therein - or if the original Guru ki sakhian could be found, that they would not be authentic (or more authentic the present)...

dalsingh, seriously, are you a complete idiot?

You talk about amritvela and try and comment on spiritual matters yet you don't have the commonsense and courtesy to understand that this is a 'SIKH' forum, where people of all backgrounds come to find out about this pristine truth. Not to mention girls of all ages also frequent this forum.

Do you speak like that in front of your mum and sister too?

Mods, please start doing your job and removing vile posts like the one above.

Re marriage to Muslian, there are also cases where Sikhs converted for their love of a Muslim women, this is the core reason Maharaj banned relations with Muslim women. Like it or not, a Muslim women is less likely to give up her faith than any other (one the whole, of course their are exceptions), and more than likely, if she has relations with a man, the man will convert to keep her. I know of gorai, kalai and a few Sikh guys who have converted out of love for a Muslim women.

Instead of banging on about Anti-Muslim sentiment in other threads, better if you actually try and understand the underlying issues/reasons - this is one rehit which I know for a fact is still 100% applicable today.

The singular/rare example you give above of some Sikh royal is hardly a prompt to say we should start marrying Muslim women, when relations with a Musli is one of the 4 Bujjar Kurehits (before the modernised version of adultry).

Don't forget even M Ranjit Singh was punished/brought to account when his relationship with a Musli became public knowledge.

Not sure what you have read, but he is renowned to be one of the greatest military stategists and commanders in history, his achievments in the areas of religious freedom (freeing Jews from the Vatican Ghettos), Art, Science, Law, Literature, Infrastructure, Politics (creating a secular Europe, destroying feudalism, creating Educations systems, Hospitals... he is also reputed to have started the deciphering of Egyption via the discovery of the Rosseta stone (though I would throw that one in).

Of course the man was not divine nor perfect, neither was Shere Punjab, but having studied the lives of both great men, I can certainly confidently say there are many similarities...

One thing I love about Napoleon is that he was a true frontline Commander.

Interesting to read his comment 'Bonaparte of the East'.

Napoleon was an amazing man and legendary Leader and Commander. If he had passed Egypt and made it to India, one can only wonder what the most likey friendship of these 2 great generals would have accomplished...

"I had never seen more sinister looking figures."

LOL, somethings/views never change!

The location of Hemkunt Sahib is purely guesswork on part of the retired army general Sohan Singh who was inspired by Vir Singhs work Sri Kalgidhar Chamtkar, which was previously inspired by Pandit Tara Singhs work commissioned by the Maharaja of Patiala.

The vague geological evidence of the site is the mention of seven peaks in Maharaj's Bachitar Natak, I don't recall the mention of Dusht Daman.

PAL07, its the opening 'Pritham Bhagauti simmar ke Gur Nanak lay dhiyaee' tuk from Chandi di vaar.

"Sipahihood" lol, nice bilingual fusion.

4. No women or children be captured or maltreated.

This is an interesting and universal law observed by most civilised armies.

But what does one do in a war where women and children are suicide bombers and pose a real threat to many innocent civilians?

Could this article be made a sticky please:

Without the element of Dharm, Yudh, as any other action, is futile.

http://www.nihangsingh.org/website/phil-dharamyudh.html


Dharam Yudh - Righteous Warfare

The term Dharam Yudh literally translates into waging war for the sake of righteousness, it is a very crucial part of the Khalsa psyche. Dharam is a word with various layers of meaning and therefore, there are many dimensions to which the concept of Dharam Yudh exists within the Khalsa. The word yudh literally means war. Dharam Yudh can be internal or external, physical or mental, personal or collective.

In the Krishanavtar, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes;

'They are great in this world who meditate on Vaheguru with their mouth
and contemplate Dharam Yudh within their mind.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1133)

An individual who strives to practice spiritual truth is known as Dharmi. The need arises for one to be able to discriminate between that which true and that which is false. This strive for pure intellect leads to the concept of bibek and abibek. Sri Guru Gobind Singh tells the story of the two brothers bibek (knowledge) and abibek (ignorance) who were both created by Vaheguru and soon raised armies to fight one another. This represents the battle between vice and virtue.

There was a king named Parasnath who had conquered the whole world and subdued many kings, he had great pride and considered himself as the greatest all sovereigns. Upon asking a great sage named Matsyendra what king was left for him to conquer, the sage replied;

'Listen sovereign, you are the greatest on earth, you have conquered all the kings,
but there is one you have not conquered. His name is Abibek and he dwells in your heart.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1310)

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji then narrates the deep dialogue between the king and the sage on the nature of bibek and abibek. The various warriors in each army are described. The army of abibek consists of warriors such as Shaturta (enmity), Aalas (laziness), Garav (false pride) etc. The sage then asks;

'Is there such a warrior who will keep steadfast and confront him (abibek)?
He will abduct the glory of all in an instant. In this way, the day his tyrannical warriors come holding weapons, listen, on that day only one with endurance will survive.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1313)

The only warrior who will not be destroyed or ruined on the day of war is Sheel (gentleness). How does one of the Sikh path conquer Abibek? Via the Guru, the very term Guru means from darkness to light; it is used for that being or entity who can impart knowledge and dispel ignorance. Thus, the Khalsa use the weapon of Gurbani, their sacred scriptures, Shabad Guru.

The Bani (words) of the primal Lord has come and it has eradicated all anxieties.
(Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 627)


Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The worship of Shabad Guru and Shastar Peer. Adi Guru Durbar, Dasam Guru Durbar and Sarbloh Guru Durbar. Nihang Singh read from their sacred scriptures and wave flying whisks over their Guru, a symbol of royalty. The Guru is also surrounded by various shastars (weapons) which are deemed to be the peer (divine guide) of the Khalsa.

The 18th Century text 'Guru Kian Sakhian' written by Bhatt Saroop Singh states that one of the teachings Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the Khalsa was:

We have seen how internal abibek can be combated through the weapon of Gian (gained through Gurbani) However, at times these dusht (enemies) and dokhian (one that harm others) take physical form. Instead of challenging one internal dharam they attack the very universal principle of dharami. Examples of such dusht include the demons Sumbh and Nisumbh who destroyed the rule of the devtas (dharam inclined deities) and were eventually destroyed by Chandi in order to restore dharam. An example of a dokhian (one who brings about suffering upon others) is Kans, the tyrannical king who was to be killed by his nephew Krishna, the avtar of the Dvapur Yug.

When the dusht materialise into physical threat, then the weapon used is Bhagauti- the sword. Sri Guru Gobind Singh makes it clear in his Zaffarnama, the letter which he wrote to Emperor Aurangzeb, that the sword is only to be deployed as a very last resort when all other means to pursue peace and stability have been exhausted. One who adorns weapons and defends dharam from dusht evil ones and dokhian (those who bring harm to others) adorns the very form of Mahakaal - the Great Timeless Lord.

'You (Vaheguru) are the wearer of the sword and armour, You cause dusht (evil ones) to blaze and you tread on the forces of the enemy, you remove all dukh (suffering).'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 83)

In the same manner that Bani is praised in the Sikh tradition as being divine, one also finds many verses dedicated to bhagauti in the Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, hence why the Khalsa warriors revere it so greatly. There are many verses and entire compositions such as the Shastar Naam Mala which devoted to the praise of weapons. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji begins their own autobiography, the Sri Bachitter Natak, by invoking the blessings of sword;

'I salute the supreme sword with all my affection and concentration.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 94)

In the same way that Gurbani aides us in our internal Dharam Yudh, it is Bhagauti that provides the required tools for external aspects. It is for this reason there is also great praise of Sarbloh, all steel-pure iron, which is the original substance from which Bhagauti derives. Bibeki Nihang Singhs are those who eat and drink that which has been prepared and served in pure iron (Sarbloh) vessels. The extensive praise Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave to Sarbloh and Bhagauti suggests that the bhagauti can be considered a physical manifestation of the divine power as highlighted in the below stanza where various weapons are mentioned;

'As, Kirpan, Khanda Kharag,, Tupak, Tabar, Teer, Saif, Sarohi and Saithi; these are our peer (revered guides). You (Vaheguru) are the Teer, you are the Saithi, you are the tabar and Tulwar. Who so ever chants your name cross over the fearful ocean of the world.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1357)


Various weapons symmetrically placed at a shrine in Nander (Maharastra)
dedicated to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Back to the great war, one of the warriors of abibek named Lobh (greed) took to the battle field, all that ran were saved and the rest were destroyed. Warriors such as Vidiya (knowledge of science), Pooja (worship), Tapasya (penance) etc had been dealt great blows by Lobh. Only one warrior was able to attack Lobh:

'Then the warrior named Daan (compassionate or charitable one),
taking the arrows of Gyan (knowledge) in his hand, performed worship and gave offerings.
With the mantra of Dhyan (great concentration), he fell upon that young man (Lobh).'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1336)

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji goes on to further describe the various battles and skirmishes between various warriors; teaching the reader what various vices need to be eradicated and what virtues one should practices in their life. This battle described is an ever on going yudh;

The whole world fought and fell on trying to kill those warriors, but it could not know their end;
these dreadful warriors are greatly persistent, greatly heroic and greatly terrible.'
(Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1339)

These teachings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji are an expansion on earlier teachings by the Sikh Gurus relating to the what they term the Panj Chor, or five thieves which are; kaam (lust or desires), krodh (anger), lobh (greed), moh (attachment) and hankar egotism). The mentality of the Nihang Singhs is very much geared towards both internal and external war. For Sikhs who do not associate so much with the warrior traditions of the Gurus, the similar concept of also exists but is arguably not seen so much within a combative perspective as is the case with Nihang Singhs. However, it is the same tool of Gurbani that is used, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji writes;

'Through the power of the Gurus Shabad (divine hymns) the five thieves of desire are conquered.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 904)

It is unfortunate that many people fail to realise the important significance of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writings. The knowledge of the tenth Gurus writings is being increasingly ignored by Sikhs, with many having never heard of them. Despite the Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji being considered the embodiment of shant ras (peace giving) as opposed to the Dasam Gur Darbar being predominately bir ras (giver of warrior spirit), one finds mention of both internal and external Dharam Yudh in the Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji writes;

He who is imbued with the colours of the Lord love in this era, he alone is known as a warrior.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 679)

Bhagat Kabir Ji writes;

'Recognise him as a warrior who fights for the defence of religion*.'
(Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1105)

*the word used here is deen and can also mean the poor or weak, i.e. those in need of protection

Using knowledge gained through Gurbani and Bhagauti one manages to conquer internal and external abibek. Knowledge can be the warrior's best friend or his worst enemy. It aides the warrior against his enemies but fortifies the defences of his greatest challenge that he must face; ego. Like abibek, bibek is also a warrior of the mind that needs to be over come.

'These two great warriors (bibek and abibek) are very mighty,
he who is victorous over them will be victorious over the whole world.'
(Dasam Guru Darbar, 1342).

Jathedar Baba Santa Singh 96 Krori states that;

"A Gursikh has three spiritual guides; Shastar (weapons) can be considered the
form of Vaheguru and so too can Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And third,
the Vaheguru mantr itself is the form of Vaheguru."
(Oral Recording, April 1995)

It is necessary to conquer ego, which is done by surrendering to Vaheguru. The only weapon which is available to for this is Gurprasdi (blessing of the Guru). One must abandon their Sehas Sianap (perceived intelligence) and recognise their fallibility before Akal Purakh and merge into a state of Sehaj Avastha ( state of celestially poised bliss). This can be achieved when by the grace of the Guru when practices bhakti. Thus in the battle between bibek and abibek we again see the need for importance of balance between Shiv and Shakti. Within Akali Nihang Singh philosophy, the first two layers of Dharam Yudh involves challenging negativity and its personifications of dusht and dokhian. The third dimension, requires an individual to overcome pride and duality and merge his Atma (soul) into Parmatma (the prime soul) Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji describes the path by which one is able to merge with Vaheguru;

'They do not have to see hell, if they remember the Lord in meditation. The Righteous Judge of Dharma applauds them, and the Messenger of Death runs away from them. Dharmic faith, patience, peace and poise are obtained by vibrating upon the Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. Showering His Blessings, He saves those who renounce all attachments and egotism. The Lord embraces us; the Guru unites us with Him. Meditating on the Lord of the Universe, we are satisfied. Prays Nanak, remembering the Lord and Master in meditation,
all hopes are fulfilled.' (Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 460)

Sodhi Teja Singh writes the story of one Nihang Singh who achieved such an avastha, the story having been narrated to him by the great Sant Amir Singh and Sant Kirpal Singh of Satogali Taksal. The story is as follows;

'One day a Nihang Singh in Gurdwara Pak Patan Sahib was preparing Sukhnidhan (treasure of peace - cannabis laced drink used within the Khalsa). Having made the drink twice we witnessed him twice preparing the nugda (left over pulp) and running with it up to the Gurdwara gate while shouting great abuse, he would then throw the nugda and went back to prepare the drink again. We could not see anything or anyone there that he was throwing the nugda or swearing at. So we asked him after he had drank the sukhnidhan, "Nihang Singh Ji, what was that incident about? Who were you running and swearing at?" The Nihang Singh replied, "The black faced one (Jamdoot - messenger of death) is coming to get me, I was telling him that I was not going with him, seeing my Salotar (heavy wooden club used as a weapon and to grind ingredients to make Sukhnidhan) he would run away. I am the Sikh of the Guru, I do not go with the one with the black face, the Guru will send one of his servants and I will go with them." The Nihang Singh spoke like this and then poised himself and sat in a meditative pose. He began uttering the Japji Sahib (opening prayer of the Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji written by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), upon finishing he looked forward, folded his two hands together and uttered, "The Khalsa is tyar bur tyar (ready upon ready), just allow me to tie my dumalla (Nihang turban style )." Having tied his dumalla The Nihang Singh took a blanket over himself, lay down departed from his body and set off to the abode of the Guru. This is the story of those who meditate on the name of Vaheguru and enshrine it within their heart.' (Katha Sagar Japji Sahib, p271)


Two Nihang Singhs prepare Sukhnidhan also known as
Shaheedi Degh (drink of the martyrs) with a heavy salotar.

'We' or 'they' are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors, be them good or bad. So the British of today do not deserve this typical 'goreyan ki esi ki thesi' attitude which still common amongst our folk. Same way we don't deserve any respect for the heroism or bravery of our ancestors. Everyman should be judged solely on his actions.

Singhmunda - everwonder how the UK Sikh population reached 0.5 million? I'll give you a clue - it wasn't a gradual allowance. In fact some people fell to the depths of marrying their own brothers and sisters (Anand Kharaj) in order to get them into the UK. Introspect before you judge others. Everyone wants and is entitled to a better life. Human migration is the reason we have the wonderful variety of cultures and faces around the world today.

Ancestory of our parents a few millenia ago isn't exactly 'Indian' is it?

The one who does more than he speaks, does not give hint of his acts and thoughts of goodwill, and does enable others to know him only through acts, is the Knower.




Vidura Neethi

Really nice photos.

Good fight (for Subaig Singh) too, although I think he rushed into it trying to provoke Jurijs way too quickly.

Hope he doesn't get over-confident, under-estimating the opponent has been the downfall of many a sports and street fighter...

Chakdai, Sue-Bayg Singh, Singh is King... hope they think of something a little more original to shout next time!

Not sure about gjaaing Gurus jaikara in that sort of 'entertainment' environment.. it's hardly Dharam Yudh. That doesn't take anything away from Subaig Singhs great efforts to train and participate in a sport he is clearly professional and passionate about! Best of luck to him in his next fight!

MJ, that's a very interesting angle with regards to sucham.

Would you be kind enough to share the source of this wonderful thought...

Like I've said before, these people are the same both sides of the border.

Egotistic and Proud to the level they happily murder their own kin to preserve their make belief 'izzat'.

Alrighty then. The MP and his office were hardly rampaging NN were they... maybe him being on the streets had a little something to do with a Barking seat and an election...?

I can really see the similarity between the troubles the Sikhs were facing in Maharashtra and a few Asian chavs who thought they would play for the camera and confront an MP who was campaigning for an election, on a street which probably houses 150 their relatives. It's a free country, it's stupid to just walk up to someone with your chest out and intent and then not even have anything to say to them (dorks), leaving the only way to communicate, to spit. Bravo.

If you are gonna fight, then at least fight for a good reason, even if you don't know how to.

I see a lot of 'yapping' going on on this forum by Internet Yodai, instead of talking, why don't you actually do something to help the 'pussy Singhs' you are always so fond of targeting. You have absolutely no idea of what efforts are being made by many Singhs in the UK to strengthen the Panth, both psychologically or physically, just cos you can't find the info on the net, you are the one that is out of touch.

Tell you what, why don't you come to the Nihang Barsi in Southall this weekend and give the out of shape quom some education/inspiration.

How embarrasing for both sides...

Stig of the Dump mannered Pakistanis and typically showy no substance BNP idiots.

None of them could fight to save their life after all that whoo-haa, I recall more impressive fights when I was at primary school.

They didn't get a seat in Barking in any case, so that should shut them up for a few years... Still, they got a half a million votes yesterday, so there is still a small % of unhappy (racist) Britishers.

Nice to see the Greens finally got a seat, even though it was in 'trendy' Brighton (so not surprising).

He is talking about reciting, reciting correctly according to santhiya, not just reading it Punjabi style.