BhagatSingh

Try going with the eye movements. Instead of trying to focus on the breath, when this occurs, focus on the eyes and their movement. Just be relaxed and become aware of it. Take notice of what happens and let us know.

In my home, back in India.

It's not because I don't know. It's because I suspect (believe) that there are hostile monsters on the other side who will kill me. It is fear of the killer monsters, of losing something like my game's character which I have invested in, that frightens me. Not the unknown.
The unknown is not frightening because I am ignorant of it. It is what is known that is frightening. Or a better word would be believing. Believing that what you have invested in will be of no value in a blink.
Everything we are afraid of involves us losing something. Either it could be a possessions, ego, body (old age, disease, death), relationships, craft, stimuli, etc. Whatever we have invested in if we are attached to it, and if we believe that we might lose it then there is fear at the moment where we have the thought of losing it.

Sat bachan bhaji. This satsang is great! It sending my mind into a meditation.

In a dream if you stay too long it feels real. In the world if you stay too long feels real. So you have to keep going into the reality that underlies the world. This is meditation and on a larger scale it is reincarnation

But I don't think you've experience the fear of death in the manner I am conceptualizing. I have had relatives die, I have contemplated the death of loved ones and I have contemplated my own death. However, this contemplation is temporary the the fear it induces goes away with the contemplation. The more intensely you think about the the greater the fear. But it only lasts as long as the contemplation and the contemplation often comes to an end difficult to sustain or recreate without seeing more deaths.

If the fear of death is something that is induced. Then I think it is not really a fear that is worthy of much concern. It's better than not having contemplated such fears. But it's not at that point where we have been gripped by the fear and then made our way through the challenge to the light at the end. I wonder is there a fear of death that can grip us so tightly? And if there is how can we experience it? or when can we experience it?

Now that i think about it, that might be going to the extreme. Because such an intense fear is not necessary. There are plenty of moments of intense sadness we can experience simply by allowing ourselves to be bored. In boredom there is an immense liberating power. At first hint of boredom, you will have an urge to do something. But if you ignore this urge and simply be bored. There will be sadness, followed by loneliness. And feelings will intensify if you stick with them. This is called Bairag. And the end of this experience, if you make it through without shutting down the experience, is profound peace.

I feel like when I am meditating I am not really going through this process. My mind is busying playing with some, a mantra, chakra or some thought pattern or I am just being conscious. It does not feel Bairag, that is what I want.

Chalisa is Chali - sa, meaning 40 chaupais.
Chaupai is chau - pai, meaning 4-line poem.

Sukhmani sahib is in Ashtpadi, Asht - padi, meaning 8 steps. Each step is 10 lines.

10 lines x 8 = 80 lines. A Chalisa is 40 x 4 = 160 lines

So my guess would be that you read 2 Ashtpadis with each Nitnem.

Anyways I don't know what the puratan maryada is so maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Chalisa is Chali - sa, meaning 40 chaupais.
Chaupai is chau - pai, meaning 4-line poem.

Sukhmani sahib is in Ashtpadi, Asht - padi, meaning 8 steps. Each step is 10 lines.

10 lines x 8 = 80 lines. A Chalisa is 40 x 4 = 160 lines

So my guess would be that you read 2 Ashtpadis with each Nitnem.

Anyways I don't know what the puratan maryada is so maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Wow that was amazing Ragmaala! Sometimes I feel get the feeling of falling and I immediately wake up as soon as it happens. So it's good to know that this feeling is rooted in some kind of fear and that it can be accessed during lucid dream. It is probably an ancestral fear but something that can be worked on nonetheless.

Sure but the bani is not changed in a way to show different beliefs/message or not edited to change the beliefs/message of the original poet, as some would suggest.

Sure but the bani is not changed in a way to show different beliefs/message or not edited to change the beliefs/message of the original poet, as some would suggest.

Most Indian religions, sects and cults believe this, yes. In Guru Granth Sahib, Ram naam is the name of the Anhad naad. Onkar is another name. And there are other countless names.
But this is only lip service.To truly understand the answer you have to meditate on Naam, ie do naam simran, and find out yourself!

Guru Ramdas ji says
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Most Indian religions, sects and cults believe this, yes. In Guru Granth Sahib, Ram naam is the name of the Anhad naad. Onkar is another name. And there are other countless names.
But this is only lip service.To truly understand the answer you have to meditate on Naam, ie do naam simran, and find out yourself!

Guru Ramdas ji says
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

They are relying on faulty english translations. And ironically they take things out of context to make their argument.
I'll give you two examples.

I've posted on this before so will quote myself here.

In response to point 1. This is faulty english translation.

In fact, it wasn't only Bhagat Kabir. The Gurus and Bhagats and Sikhs whose bani is in Guru Granth Sahib were all vegetarians.


Point 3 is in fact talking about killing. Bismil and Halaal are referring to killing rather than sacrifice. Instead of adding context the article removes context.
The context to this is another shabad by Kabir sahib that talks about killing animals.

He says it bluntly, it is wrong to kill animals.




Again this is a faulty English translation. He is not referring to the Mullah's beliefs. He is in fact saying that the Mullah is wrong and he should contemplate Ved and Kateb.
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
Do not say Ved and Kateb, false are those who do not contemplate them.
ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
When they (Ved and Kateb) say that there is Khudai/divinity in all beings, then why do you kill chickens?


Bhagat Kabir ji says it again and again in different ways, and using all kinds of rhetoric, but the underlying argument is the same - It is wrong to kill animals.

They are relying on faulty english translations. And ironically they take things out of context to make their argument.
I'll give you two examples.

I've posted on this before so will quote myself here.

In response to point 1. This is faulty english translation.

In fact, it wasn't only Bhagat Kabir. The Gurus and Bhagats and Sikhs whose bani is in Guru Granth Sahib were all vegetarians.


Point 3 is in fact talking about killing. Bismil and Halaal are referring to killing rather than sacrifice. Instead of adding context the article removes context.
The context to this is another shabad by Kabir sahib that talks about killing animals.

He says it bluntly, it is wrong to kill animals.




Again this is a faulty English translation. He is not referring to the Mullah's beliefs. He is in fact saying that the Mullah is wrong and he should contemplate Ved and Kateb.
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
Do not say Ved and Kateb, false are those who do not contemplate them.
ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
When they (Ved and Kateb) say that there is Khudai/divinity in all beings, then why do you kill chickens?


Bhagat Kabir ji says it again and again in different ways, and using all kinds of rhetoric, but the underlying argument is the same - It is wrong to kill animals.

You devil

Does she meditate now?

Totally, I initially noticed it when I would wake up doing simran sometimes or I wake up and its so peaceful and effortless. I tend to sing simran and do meditation on the body in formal sittings, so it's usually the latter, where my body is super relaxed and I can feel all of it.
Then a couple years later, I started having dreams where I would go into a meditation inside the dream and my dhyan would be fixated while I was still dreaming.
Then recently, I found myself waking up in the middle of the night and there was just blackness and this really loud horn, almost machine-like sound ZUUURRRRRR. Very strange. I found myself in a state of dhyan and slowly coming out of it. I noticed that my breath was completely out of whack. I was trying to breathe to keep it going and in doing so I lost the state.

You devil

Does she meditate now?

Totally, I initially noticed it when I would wake up doing simran sometimes or I wake up and its so peaceful and effortless. I tend to sing simran and do meditation on the body in formal sittings, so it's usually the latter, where my body is super relaxed and I can feel all of it.
Then a couple years later, I started having dreams where I would go into a meditation inside the dream and my dhyan would be fixated while I was still dreaming.
Then recently, I found myself waking up in the middle of the night and there was just blackness and this really loud horn, almost machine-like sound ZUUURRRRRR. Very strange. I found myself in a state of dhyan and slowly coming out of it. I noticed that my breath was completely out of whack. I was trying to breathe to keep it going and in doing so I lost the state.

Bhaji
It's really simple. Think "waheguru" with each breath (saas) and with each mouthful of food (gras) of your entire life.

Try to do this as much as possible. When you wake up, while brushing your teeth, taking a bath, eating food, waiting for something or someone, and so on.

Any time you remember that you have to do it, just start doing it.

Ok I see where you are at. You seem quite learned to me.

We are looking at different traditions here. They do have similarities and we might think they are the same. But these kinds of differences pop up and you don't know what to make of them.

First just realize they are different.
The tradition of Guru Granth Sahib is about worshipping Ram/Hari/Krishna. ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ This is the Vaishnu tradition. Guru Nanak Dev ji says in Asa Di Vaar "Ek Krishanam sarab deva, deva deva ta Atma"

Now in Dasam Granth there is a different tradition of worshipping Mahakal and Shakti. These are Shaiv and Shakat traditions respectively. That's why there are ballads of Chandi, and in Bachittar Natak talks about "Mahadev devam, Mahakal kalam".


Mahadev and Mahakal, and Chandi/Durga never appear in Guru Granth Sahib. If they do, you are told not to worship them like in Bhagat Namdev ji's shabad.
In Dasam Granth they do appear again and again, and you are told not to worship Ram/Hari/Krishna (and even Ganesh "Main na Ganesh prithm dhiaoon").

lol

If you were a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji's time all the way to Guru Tegh Bahadur ji, you would just worship Ram/Hari/Krishna and it would be quite simple.

But if you are Sikh who comes during or after Guru Gobind Singh ji's time...now it's starting to get complicated. You see sikhs who belong to different traditions coming together under Guru Gobind Singh ji. And they hold different beliefs. Some sikhs worship Ram/Hari/Krishna like they used to, some worship Lakshmi/Maya, some worship Chandi/Durga, some worship Sadashiv or Mahakal, etc.

In modern times, sometimes, they interpret all these traditions as one tradition. Where all these are forms of the same Divine Being.

And I am sure you know of sikhs who will reject all the forms and just pray to the Formless. Even that's a form of the same Divine Being.

So what does this all this come down to?

In the end just go with your heart.

Whichever God/Goddess you like more, whichever form of Akal Purakh you are most attracted to, just worship that form. In the end, it's all about the relationship you build.

Ok I see where you are at. You seem quite learned to me.

We are looking at different traditions here. They do have similarities and we might think they are the same. But these kinds of differences pop up and you don't know what to make of them.

First just realize they are different.
The tradition of Guru Granth Sahib is about worshipping Ram/Hari/Krishna. ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ ॥ This is the Vaishnu tradition. Guru Nanak Dev ji says in Asa Di Vaar "Ek Krishanam sarab deva, deva deva ta Atma"

Now in Dasam Granth there is a different tradition of worshipping Mahakal and Shakti. These are Shaiv and Shakat traditions respectively. That's why there are ballads of Chandi, and in Bachittar Natak talks about "Mahadev devam, Mahakal kalam".


Mahadev and Mahakal, and Chandi/Durga never appear in Guru Granth Sahib. If they do, you are told not to worship them like in Bhagat Namdev ji's shabad.
In Dasam Granth they do appear again and again, and you are told not to worship Ram/Hari/Krishna (and even Ganesh "Main na Ganesh prithm dhiaoon").

lol

If you were a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji's time all the way to Guru Tegh Bahadur ji, you would just worship Ram/Hari/Krishna and it would be quite simple.

But if you are Sikh who comes during or after Guru Gobind Singh ji's time...now it's starting to get complicated. You see sikhs who belong to different traditions coming together under Guru Gobind Singh ji. And they hold different beliefs. Some sikhs worship Ram/Hari/Krishna like they used to, some worship Lakshmi/Maya, some worship Chandi/Durga, some worship Sadashiv or Mahakal, etc.

In modern times, sometimes, they interpret all these traditions as one tradition. Where all these are forms of the same Divine Being.

And I am sure you know of sikhs who will reject all the forms and just pray to the Formless. Even that's a form of the same Divine Being.

So what does this all this come down to?

In the end just go with your heart.

Whichever God/Goddess you like more, whichever form of Akal Purakh you are most attracted to, just worship that form. In the end, it's all about the relationship you build.

Holy! Ancient Indians also wore turbans and
And

Interesting links:
Baudhāyana, (fl. c. 800 BCE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudhayana
Indian writings talk about pythagorean theorem way before Pythagoras (c. 570 BC – c. 495 BC)



I am guessing Pythagoras was inspired by Indians quite a bit, and he took a part of our culture with him to Greece.

Holy! Ancient Indians also wore turbans and
And

Interesting links:
Baudhāyana, (fl. c. 800 BCE)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudhayana
Indian writings talk about pythagorean theorem way before Pythagoras (c. 570 BC – c. 495 BC)



I am guessing Pythagoras was inspired by Indians quite a bit, and he took a part of our culture with him to Greece.

JathedarSahib I know you love posting this video everywhere but those quote do not address vegetarianism.

She also fails to address quotes like

Bhagat Kabir
ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
If killing living beings is righteous action then what is unrighteous?
ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥੨॥
You call yourself a saint then who would you call a butcher?

She translates this incorrectly as well

Bhagat Kabir
ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
ਭਾਂਗ meat of the ਮਾਛੁਲੀ fish
ਸੁਰਾ wine of the ਮਾਛੁਲੀ fish (Fish are used in wine sometimes)

Bhagat Kabir was a vegetarian, and he promoted that lifestyle in Guru Granth Sahib.


Bhai Gurdas ji says
ਜੇ ਕਾਸਾਈ ਉਧਰਿਆ ਜੀਆ ਘਾਇ ਨ ਖਾਈਐ ਭੰਗਾ।
If a Butcher (Bhagat Sadhna) is liberated, it does not mean that we should (become a butcher and) slaughter and eat meat.

Best thing you can do is to fill up all the areas in your life where you are not meditating and start meditating in those areas.
You can practice techniques described by Sat and Lucky above, and insert them in the following activities.
You can also try to experience the activity in its fullest, I will describe this below, along with some example of activities during which you could easily meditate.
Let's start

1 you wake up - start meditation immediately
- open your eyes, look around the room as you would if you woke up in a strange location
like an alien visiting earth, study every in the room
- feel the bedsheets, listen to the early morning sounds
- when you get up feel the weight of your body sitting on the bed, then feel your feet touch the floor.

2. brushing teeth - focus on the sounds and sensations of the brush
- the touch of water, how wet is it, how hot/cold,
- feel the water move around in your mouth, on your hands, face

3. washing dishes - again focus on the sensations of the water, the temperature, the flow
- feel the dishes as you would a newborn child, touch them, what do they feel like
- what does the soap feel like
- how does the water look like when it hits the dish, how does it flow down the dish

4. walking from one place of the house to another
- bring your attention to your feet and feel the floor/carpet you walk on
- think about the texture and the hardness
- feel the muscles of your feet in action

5. every now and then just take a deep breath
- as soon as you remember this take a deep breath
- if you waiting for someone or something, just take a deep conscious breath
- focus on the breath as it goes in and comes out
- if you can look out of a window, look at the sky, the trees, listen to the birds and take a deep breath

Just fill up all the space, all the routine tasks with meditation and you will see a HUGE difference in your life

Admin,

It would really be useful if you could also include a "Like" feature on this forum next to posts like SikhSangat. I have read countless good posts on this forum that I would personally like to thank or even show an appreciation to the poster without having to reply to the thread to simply say "Great Post!" or "Thanks for sharing!"

Its enabled now.