BhagatSingh

It turns out i lost their recording , corrupted voice recorder so disappointed i asked them about four questions. I will write their answers from memory:
- They said mata sahib devan always want to honor her husband in this case - sri guru gobind singh ji, didnt want any recongition in general shakti is not different from vahiguru as its leen in vahiguru ,  mata sahib devan didn't want any recognition in  ardas so her wish was fullfilled. I am not sure there is historical sakhi on this.

Apart from the beginning, the ardaas is written by the panth and could easily include Mata Sahib Devi.  It has changed over time as it reflects different historical events etc. 

The most amazing thing about the Ardaas is that it is a living document that can be updated from time to time. I think within 20 years it will be updated to include the situation of the 80s and 90s Punjab. I also hope the Afghan ardaas will include the tragic terror incidents of 1 july 2018 where the Afghan Singh leadership was completely wiped out.

In Chandi Di Var, Bhagawati, the primal goddess, creates Mahakal ;)
This is why I keep saying to recognize these as different religions. We are putting obstacles in our understanding if we don't have this larger perspective on these writings. And a lot of apne do lack this understanding because it is nowhere to be found in our common knowledge or in our culture.
This perspective and understanding requires - 1. a previous experience of divine, of his simultaneous oneness and multiplicity, and then 2. further study of world religions, and Indian religions and then 3. through combining the previous two, further study of the process by which the divine creates a variety of religions throughout history, and 4. further study of the why the divine creates diverse, sometimes contradictory, religions.
Needless to say that this perspective is not readily available to everyone. It is like climbing mount Everest, only a few will go to that level.
 
 

 

My thoughts have changed since 2015, after reading granths like Nanak Parkash, where Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s janam patri(astrological paper) was read to Sri Guru Angad Dev ji and other countless things in other granths. I now believe it is a science which can help benifit a person’s sikhi if that person uses the knowledge wisely. For example if by going to an astrologer and finding something bad is gonna happen, we could do naam simran to lessen the damage or eradicate if fully. The astrology is just a simple guide to our life of events that will unfold, but the true guru is the real changer. The true guru can change your future in an instant.

Well I was going to suggest that they are an alien race from planet BRX90 from our neighbouring star and are sent on earth as our overlords and for our entertainment.
But sure let's go with "are these people for real?"

Well it'll be like Marijuana.
How hard was it to get it in Canada during the period it was banned?
It was actually rather easy.
But what it did was that it made criminals out of everyday people, some of who were suffering from diseases that are healed by marijuana.
And it drove Marijuana into the black market, which is unregulated. So you never knew what you are getting.
The same thing will happen with guns.
 
Should you encourage or discourage our people to learn shastar vidya of guns?
So do you think you are encouraging or discouraging shastar vidya of guns amongst our people by banning the guns?
 
Dally is right. That's what both of your arguments boil down.
 
They boil down to - fear.
"Oh no can't let bad people get guns!"
"Oh no there aren't enough of us!"
 
And selfishness -
"Oh no let's ban guns because our community isn't good with them so let's vote to prevent other communities from protecting themselves"
 
All I am seeing is you saying that this is not an apt summary of your views but you have not clarified your views.
What more is there to your view other than fear and selfishness?

Basically you're both scared.

They will fall in to the hands of criminals regardless of whether they are banned or not.
But whether or not they fall into the hands of good, law-abiding people, that is the question.
If you ban guns, good people will not have access to them.
And if good people cannot get access to them, they cannot protect themselves from the criminals who will have them... and from the government who will also have them.
Remember when you prevent the people of a nation, from getting access to guns, while simultaneously giving government access to guns, all you are doing is making the government stronger.
If the government decides to abuse that power, if it turns tyrannical and oppresses its people, then the people stand no chance against it.
When this happened to the Sikh community back in 1600s, when the government tortured Guru Arjun Dev ji, even though he was innocent, then Guru Hari Gobind ji relied on weapons to fight the government.
So a Sikh asking for weapons to be banned does not know his own history.

Sat bachan lol

I would say it's not that one is drunk that they liven things up. It is that one has lost their inhibitions and conditioning, and their true self is shining through. This can be done through meditation as well, in trance state. The difference is that in the latter you are supra-conscious. (It's also much harder to do)

The boy is doing just this. He is one with his dance, he is mast. There is enormous amount of energy coming off of his state. His true self is shining through, and without the use of any intoxicants. And that in itself I find very impressive.

On some words pronouncing the Aunkar changes the meaning of the word to something else.
E.g. if you pronounce the Aunkar on ਜੋਰੁ it changes the meaning of the word. Instead of being Jor "power", it becomes Joru "wife".
The aunkar in ਜੋਰੁ is only there to indicate a singular, masculine word, so a singular power source.
ਤਿਸ ਤੇ ਭਾਰੁ ਤਲੈ ਕਵਣੁ ਜੋਰੁ ॥
What Power holds and supports the weight of this world?
ਜੋਰੁ here is singular masculine word - Power - and the aunkar indicates that.
Same with ਭਾਰੁ and ਕਵਣੁ.
Bhar means "weight". Bharu means "one who applies weight". So here it should be pronounced as Bhar, not Bharu.
 
And pronouncing it on other words, makes the word lose its meaning.
E.g. ਗਿਆਨੁ
Gyan means "knowledge". Gyani and Gyanee mean "of knowledge" often "person of knowledge".
Gyanu and Gyanoo have no meaning.
 
So that's why I think the Aunkars are only there to indicate words that are both Singular and Masculine.
Most mainstream Gurbani Grammar scholars agree with that.
 
Where we disagree is that they think Aunkar should never be pronounced, whereas I think in some words it should be.
Some of these words I talked about in my Aunkar thread.
 
Depends on how you pronounce it.

You cannot have a friendship with God without fearing him.
There is no Love of God without the Fear of God.
Why is that?
Because it is the Fear of God that destroys Ahankar, the separation between you and God.

You cannot have a friendship with God without fearing him.
There is no Love of God without the Fear of God.
Why is that?
Because it is the Fear of God that destroys Ahankar, the separation between you and God.

Jordan Peterson (famous Canadian Psychologist) talks about the fear of God.
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"
 
 
Bhul chuk maaf

I think this forum might be a bit 'high brow' too. No one else really looks at root sources of Sikhi like we do here attempting and evaluating translations. No one else really challenges entrenched narratives from the colonial period either. Maybe the traffic has decreased because the forum is a bit 'niche' like that? 
When it comes to 'learning' I feel like most people just want to reinforce what they've always felt they've known anyway. Personally I can't even articulate how much my mind has been broadened with regard to my heritage from being on this forum. And that's between all the arguing and swearing some of us do here....lol

There is no difference. The problem is that people do rituals without true feeling. When doing any ritual there has to be clarity of thought and clarity of intent (in other words, love). If that Malini, that is the central character of Sant Kabir's shalok, had any understanding, she would also see Parmatma in the branches, leaves and flowers of the tree. But she does not. When she cannot see Parmatma in all those places He resides then it follows that she is not really seeing Him in her beloved idol. So her idol is just a stone.Therefore, she only has love for a stone, and not a idol. Notice how the word pahan (stone) is used, and not Murti (idol).

Sikhphilosophy.net - rise and fall
Having been a member of the above forum for almost 6 years...do then suddenly get blocked without any notification or reason provided...left me slightly concerned at what has happened to what was one a great forum.
A few years ago...the forum was full of souls yearning to share experiences...members diving in and taking the journey described by our beloved Guru Ji...
but one by one, everyone started to disappear...members getting blocked...members being targeted for wanting to discuss Simran...the inner journey...a journey of self transformation and truth realization.
a Small admin group...Aman Singh, Tejwant Singh, Harry Haller ... latching onto members as soon as they mention the words Simran...or anything even remotely Mystic...
one by one, sucking the energy out of the member...
Such a shame for what was once a great forum....a forum that was open to views and discussion...but now just occupied by a small handful...
i have emailed the admin several times to ask why i was blocked....no reply...
i created another email address, created a thread asking why i was blocked...only to realize my new account was then blocked, and my thread deleted...
i contacted by email other members who often share their vision of this inner journey...only to realize they have also been blocked...
 

Why was it closed down?
srigranth.org and sridasam.org are invaluable resources.

I wouldn't need convincing.
@paapiman
What if I said to you that "I can do Sift Salah of Waheguru whilst my body may be dancing(bhangra)" ?   and yes, I did try it and I was praising and doing bhajan of Akaal purakh in my mind.  
In my understanding, those saas that I took whilst dancing and praising Waheguru, should get accounted for my naam wealth. I didn't wastes those saas with any other thoughts
 
 

I mean you left out the part from the quote that would have answered your question -
One of the best ways to raise your IQ is to meditate, learn to focus and master your attention.
I am talking about IQ, your mental capability, your intelligence when it comes to solving problems.
 
Brahmgyan, ie knowledge that you are not a separate being and are part of the collective being of the universe, that also comes with meditation.
There are also health benefits.
You can sleep better and more deeply.
Gain better insight into your nature and the problems that it leads you into.
etc.
 
There are many benefits of meditation.
The ability to pay attention to the right things is the fundamental activity in all activities.
Without paying attention you cannot do anything.
If you improve how you pay attention, it will improve the activity that you are doing.
So the benefits of meditation come from mastering attention.
 
That said
Intelligence is relative so someone might be smart in one area but may not be in another.
And people are varying degrees of intelligent.
Meditation will increase your intelligence relative to what it was before.
But it is not a guarantee that you will become smarter than a particular person who you admire or are envious of.
 
Here two things are possible -
1. You are smarter than them so what you say goes over their head.
2. They are smarter than you so what they say goes over your head.
😉
 
Source? Ultimate Source.
How many times? As many times as possible, during all activities.
Have you tried it yourself? Of course. Every bit of knowledge I share on this forum or elsewhere, comes from my embodying that knowledge.

Cool. This is part of the Anhad Naad. It is the sound of silence. It normally arises from an intense presence of silence.

When you become silent in the mind and when it is silent outside, then you will hear this. But it will start to go away as your mind becomes noisy and as your outside environment becomes noisy. You will start hearing those sounds instead.
It is not always necessarily connected to outside noises or mental noise but it often is. It is often related to silence.
Sometimes you will randomly hear it, even when the mind is not silent or environment is not silent, when you do just become silent and listen to silence.
This sound is a Sign to remain silent.
 

It does.
That magic power is known as meditation.
Chaupai Sahib -
Sunai moord chit laye chaturta avaee.
Listening to this Chaupai, the ignorant will become intelligent.
One of the best ways to raise your IQ is to meditate, learn to focus and master your attention.
Meditate on this shabad from Sukhmani Sahib -
Prabh kai Simarani Riddhi Siddhi Nau Nidhi.
Prabh kai Simarani Gyan Dhyan Tatua Buddhi.
Simarani means "In Simaran" - in Remembrance.
In Remembrance of God, is the Spiritual treasures (Riddhi Siddhi) and Material treasures (Nau Niddhi).
In Remembrance of God, is Knowledge (Gyan), Meditation (Dhyan), Essence (Tatua) and Intelligence (Buddhi).

How to Pronounce Gurbani correctly -
 
None of them require nose muscles. You are most likely pronouncing it wrong or trying too hard to pronounce it thereby using nose muscles in the process.

@sarabatam
Thanks. Glad you liked it.

Recently when I was reading a shabad of Sant Ravi Das ji, it reminded me of this thread.
I think the philosophy in Sikhi is not Advait of Guru Adi Shankar ji, rather it is Vishisht Advait of Guru Ramanuj ji.
Vishisht Advait is a Qualified Advait.
Whereas Advait says that the Soul is God, they are the same. Vishist Advait agrees but says they are the same but they are also different.
 
This key difference is perfectly encapsulated in the shabad of Sant Ravi Das ji, Guru Granth Sahib, 93.
ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥
You, Me, Me, You, what is the difference? The difference is like Gold and Jewellery, like Water and Waves.
 
He continues -
ਜਉ ਪੈ ਹਮ ਨ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੰਤਾ ਅਹੇ ਅਨੰਤਾ ॥ ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਹੁੰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
If I did not commit sins, then how would you be known as the Pavit Pavan, the redeemer of sins.
 
Ravidas ji says – Hey Ram! You and I, we are different but one. I am the sinner and you redeem me. You reside in me; I am known through you, and you are known through me. Grant me this wisdom so that my body constantly worships you. Ravidas says, give me the company of those who have realized that You resides in all beings.
 
So Adi Shankar ji would ask  - ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ You, Me, Me, You, what is the difference? He would stop there and say there is fundamentally no Real difference.
But Ramanuj ji would come in and say - ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥ The difference is like Gold and Jewellery, like Water and Waves. And that this is a Real difference.
 
 
Bhai Gurdas ji in his Vaar 1, 11th pauri, explains a possible pitfall that an Advaitist must be careful of -
 
ਸਿਆਮ ਵੇਦ ਕਉ ਸੋਧਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਥਿ ਵੇਦਾਂਤੁ ਬਿਆਸਿ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ।
Guru Vyas ji (also known Badarayan) recited Vedanta (sutras) after churning and researching the thought frame of the Sam Ved.
 
ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਨੀ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਪਣਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਜਣਾਇਆ।
He described that the Self (Atma) is Supreme Self (Brahma) - Advait Philosophy.
 
ਨਦਰੀ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਲਿਆਵਈ ਹਉਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ।
He explained that the Supreme Self is invisible to everyone and the individual wanders around in its delusions of self conceit.
 
ਆਪੁ ਪੁਜਾਇ ਜਗਤਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਦਾ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ।
But by establishing the Self as Supreme Self, he ended up establishing one's own Limited Mind as worthy of worship, and this hindered him from true understanding.
- Because when you say that the Atma is Parmatma (which it is) then you might fall into the trap of thinking that your Limited Mind is Atma/Consciousness/Self.
- So you may end up worshipping the Limited Mind mistaking it for Atma/Parmatma (Consciousness/Supreme Consciousness).
- The Limited Mind is not Atma/Consciousness. But it is very easy to mistake the Limited Mind for atma/Consciousness.
- Consciousness is the source of the Limited Mind. This is why Limited Mind has difficulty accessing Consciousness, because it exists prior to it.
 
ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੀ ਵੇਦਿ ਮਥਿ ਅਗਨੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤਪਤਿ ਤਪਾਇਆ।
Churning of the Vedas could not obtain peace for him and he started scorching one and all in the heat of his Limited Identity of the Mind.
 
ਮਾਇਆ ਡੰਡ ਨ ਉਤੇਰੇ ਜਮ ਡੰਡੇ ਬਹੁ ਦੁਖਿ ਰੂਆਇਆ।
The rod of Maya, or Material Attachment, always hung over his head and he suffered extremely because of the constant fear of Yama, of death.
 
ਨਾਰਦਿ ਮੁਨਿ ਉਪਦੇਸਿਆ ਮਥਿ ਭਾਗਵਤ ਗੁਨਿ ਗੀਤ ਕਰਾਇਆ।
Having obtained knowledge from his Guru, Narad Muni ji, he recited Bhagvat Puran and sang about the qualities of God (In Bhagvat Puran, Vyas ji tells the qualities of Krishan ji).
 
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਰਨੀ ਨਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥੧੧॥
Without surrender before the Guru none could get across (the world ocean).
So through his Guru Narad ji, Vyas ji, realized the Self/Supreme Self.