Xylitol

Oral tradition is valid as evidence. It is our panth’s oral tradition, coming from more than one unbroken lineage of teachers, that all of Dasam Granth Sahib ji is Gurbani. Despite the existence of numerous lineages of teachers, there is not one single contradiction to this point of view. 
 
Additionally, oral history can have great integrity. So much so, that even the supreme courts in Canada have recognized native oral traditions as providing a substantial evidentiary basis for native land claims. ie. White-owned courts have acknowledged that natives can make a claim on land controlled by whites based on oral evidence alone!!
 
The oral history is of course in addition to the internal evidence within Dasam Bani that corresponds perfectly to the teachings in Guru Granth Sahib ji and other evidences as well. 
 
The bottom-line is that the Dasam Granth Sahib’s status as Gurbani IS and has always been the accepted belief of the Khalsa. As the interlopers, the ones who are challenging the accepted belief of the Panth, it is incumbent upon these people to present evidence of their assertions. They have made numerous posts on this forum but I have not seen any actually step forward to provide any substantial evidence for their claims. Anybody can criticize, anybody can say this or that isn’t Bani, but where is the evidence that actually goes beyond mere conjecture?!?!

Oral tradition is valid as evidence. It is our panth’s oral tradition, coming from more than one unbroken lineage of teachers, that all of Dasam Granth Sahib ji is Gurbani. Despite the existence of numerous lineages of teachers, there is not one single contradiction to this point of view. 
 
Additionally, oral history can have great integrity. So much so, that even the supreme courts in Canada have recognized native oral traditions as providing a substantial evidentiary basis for native land claims. ie. White-owned courts have acknowledged that natives can make a claim on land controlled by whites based on oral evidence alone!!
 
The oral history is of course in addition to the internal evidence within Dasam Bani that corresponds perfectly to the teachings in Guru Granth Sahib ji and other evidences as well. 
 
The bottom-line is that the Dasam Granth Sahib’s status as Gurbani IS and has always been the accepted belief of the Khalsa. As the interlopers, the ones who are challenging the accepted belief of the Panth, it is incumbent upon these people to present evidence of their assertions. They have made numerous posts on this forum but I have not seen any actually step forward to provide any substantial evidence for their claims. Anybody can criticize, anybody can say this or that isn’t Bani, but where is the evidence that actually goes beyond mere conjecture?!?!

Oral tradition is valid as evidence. It is our panth’s oral tradition, coming from more than one unbroken lineage of teachers, that all of Dasam Granth Sahib ji is Gurbani. Despite the existence of numerous lineages of teachers, there is not one single contradiction to this point of view. 
 
Additionally, oral history can have great integrity. So much so, that even the supreme courts in Canada have recognized native oral traditions as providing a substantial evidentiary basis for native land claims. ie. White-owned courts have acknowledged that natives can make a claim on land controlled by whites based on oral evidence alone!!
 
The oral history is of course in addition to the internal evidence within Dasam Bani that corresponds perfectly to the teachings in Guru Granth Sahib ji and other evidences as well. 
 
The bottom-line is that the Dasam Granth Sahib’s status as Gurbani IS and has always been the accepted belief of the Khalsa. As the interlopers, the ones who are challenging the accepted belief of the Panth, it is incumbent upon these people to present evidence of their assertions. They have made numerous posts on this forum but I have not seen any actually step forward to provide any substantial evidence for their claims. Anybody can criticize, anybody can say this or that isn’t Bani, but where is the evidence that actually goes beyond mere conjecture?!?!

Oral tradition is valid as evidence. It is our panth’s oral tradition, coming from more than one unbroken lineage of teachers, that all of Dasam Granth Sahib ji is Gurbani. Despite the existence of numerous lineages of teachers, there is not one single contradiction to this point of view. 
 
Additionally, oral history can have great integrity. So much so, that even the supreme courts in Canada have recognized native oral traditions as providing a substantial evidentiary basis for native land claims. ie. White-owned courts have acknowledged that natives can make a claim on land controlled by whites based on oral evidence alone!!
 
The oral history is of course in addition to the internal evidence within Dasam Bani that corresponds perfectly to the teachings in Guru Granth Sahib ji and other evidences as well. 
 
The bottom-line is that the Dasam Granth Sahib’s status as Gurbani IS and has always been the accepted belief of the Khalsa. As the interlopers, the ones who are challenging the accepted belief of the Panth, it is incumbent upon these people to present evidence of their assertions. They have made numerous posts on this forum but I have not seen any actually step forward to provide any substantial evidence for their claims. Anybody can criticize, anybody can say this or that isn’t Bani, but where is the evidence that actually goes beyond mere conjecture?!?!

So many arguments can be summed up by this...

Most of the stuff you seem worried about isn’t going to affect your day to day life as Gursikh. And yes, you get tested.Everyone does. But I feel you are in the same mindset that a lot of people are in when they enter the dharm, focusing more on the outer stuff. All fired up about the political and social revolutionary aspects. Nothing wrong with that. But, the relative importance of the outer things to the inner spiritual life is akin to the skin of the almond to the almond itself. 
There are variations between Gurdwaras as well. Some places are more restrictive while others are not. Some places the sangat is very spiritual minded while other places they are not so far along in the path. 
You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater over a few things that, for the most part, are unlikely to majorly affect your life much unless you let them. They usually do not directly affect you. 
Going to sangat everyday is  hugely important for one’s jeevan. But the difference is I go there for my jeevan, not to critique things or look for faults. The ones who go to fight fights usually lose out, while the ones who focus on Naam gain. I’m not saying there aren’t fights worth fighting. But how will you accomplish anything if you fight every fight? 
 
btw, when I called those things bunk I meant that most of them are not legitimate Sikhi. The majority also happen to not believe in them. 
 
 

Most of the stuff you seem worried about isn’t going to affect your day to day life as Gursikh. And yes, you get tested.Everyone does. But I feel you are in the same mindset that a lot of people are in when they enter the dharm, focusing more on the outer stuff. All fired up about the political and social revolutionary aspects. Nothing wrong with that. But, the relative importance of the outer things to the inner spiritual life is akin to the skin of the almond to the almond itself. 
There are variations between Gurdwaras as well. Some places are more restrictive while others are not. Some places the sangat is very spiritual minded while other places they are not so far along in the path. 
You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater over a few things that, for the most part, are unlikely to majorly affect your life much unless you let them. They usually do not directly affect you. 
Going to sangat everyday is  hugely important for one’s jeevan. But the difference is I go there for my jeevan, not to critique things or look for faults. The ones who go to fight fights usually lose out, while the ones who focus on Naam gain. I’m not saying there aren’t fights worth fighting. But how will you accomplish anything if you fight every fight? 
 
btw, when I called those things bunk I meant that most of them are not legitimate Sikhi. The majority also happen to not believe in them. 
 
 

Most of the stuff you seem worried about isn’t going to affect your day to day life as Gursikh. And yes, you get tested.Everyone does. But I feel you are in the same mindset that a lot of people are in when they enter the dharm, focusing more on the outer stuff. All fired up about the political and social revolutionary aspects. Nothing wrong with that. But, the relative importance of the outer things to the inner spiritual life is akin to the skin of the almond to the almond itself. 
There are variations between Gurdwaras as well. Some places are more restrictive while others are not. Some places the sangat is very spiritual minded while other places they are not so far along in the path. 
You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater over a few things that, for the most part, are unlikely to majorly affect your life much unless you let them. They usually do not directly affect you. 
Going to sangat everyday is  hugely important for one’s jeevan. But the difference is I go there for my jeevan, not to critique things or look for faults. The ones who go to fight fights usually lose out, while the ones who focus on Naam gain. I’m not saying there aren’t fights worth fighting. But how will you accomplish anything if you fight every fight? 
 
btw, when I called those things bunk I meant that most of them are not legitimate Sikhi. The majority also happen to not believe in them. 
 
 

I've spoken with Gyani Takhur Singh ji about this.

Here's the maryada:

Make bhog and do ardass at the start.
While doing the jaap sit on a white sheet wearing white clothes. Have water in a container near you and have a quoi (ghee) jot lit. After doing your jaap for the day splash chitey from the water around your paath room (it's good somehow, not sure if it's a necessary part of maryada) and then drink the water.
At the end make bhog and do ardass.

Here's the numbers for each day:

Gurmantr jap 108 mala
Mool mantr 32 mala
Chachree chand, Tav Prasaad mantr 32 mala
Sukhmani Sahib 5 paaths
Japji Sahib 25 paaths.

This takes 40 days to complete. All of the above are equivalent.

It won't work. Their propaganda is so outlandish and improbable that a simple google search and the application of the teeniest bit of logic renders it inert. 

Propaganda. 
Here is the true account of what happened, as written by a HINDU MAGISTRATE: https://khojee.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/operation-bluestar-the-gallant-defender-1984-links/
Additionally, interviews with some of India's own generals show that the general thought that Sant ji was not at all "manufactured" by government.
Although Sant ji was very strict, in accordance with the needs of the time, he was also known for his compassion: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3w0d0CIvh4
Here is the story of his life from yet another perspective, as told by his fellow student at the taksal. Anyone can see that the jeevan he lived was that of a sant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzSt8PI40fc&ab_channel=SARABLOHK
 

You are making a giant presumption on the beliefs of those who serve in the Punj. You are also engaging in all or nothing thinking and overgeneralizing regarding the position of women just based on one or two things.  
No Sikh that I have ever met sees women the way that you state in your post. You are being emotional and not rational.
Btw, the kirpan da amrit for women is an old belief of a small minority of Sikhs, but the rest of us believe that it is meant to be Khande Batte da Amrit for both genders. 

I have never been to Australia, my brother visited for a while and told me that the cost of living out there is immense. And judging from news stories, racism is a much bigger problem out there than in Canada.

Some posters have such burning anger in your replies to each other!! Instead of trying to understand each other some posters just pour gasoline on the fire! It is possible to disagree while still being civil with each other.

Some posters have such burning anger in your replies to each other!! Instead of trying to understand each other some posters just pour gasoline on the fire! It is possible to disagree while still being civil with each other.

Some posters have such burning anger in your replies to each other!! Instead of trying to understand each other some posters just pour gasoline on the fire! It is possible to disagree while still being civil with each other.

It says this is so b/c the worshipper can only become like the roop of worshipped, hence in this case an istree

No, there are in fact women sants in Sikh dharam as well. 
 

No, there are in fact women sants in Sikh dharam as well. 
 

Maharaja Ranjit Singh was ensnared by the wiles of a courtesan and fell for her. Her influence over him enabled traitors to enter the raj and reach very high levels. Consequently, at a key period in Sikh history these traitors conspired with the British and betrayed the raj. The raj fell. As a result every single Sikh man, woman, and child was affected, not just for that generation, but for all generations to come. Besides oppressing the people, the British destroyed the Sikh school system which was one of the best in the world and promoted independent though. That school system has never been recovered, as can be seen by the pendu mentality of many of our people. The British also spread propaganda and worked at creating divisions within our panth, including divisions regarding our Guru Granth Sahib ji and other scriptures and historically important writings. The consequences of one man not have read and understood the Charitropakhyan continue to affect the worldwide panth to this day.

Also think that debates that raise controversy  or very strong feelings might need to be limited to registered members only. Reduces trolling

Punjab spent more on education per capita than British did in England. One of the most advanced education systems in the world. 
The British exported huge amounts of crops to Europe during times of famine. They have actually caused some of the largest famines and mass deaths in world history with their greed. With full knowledge. 

Also think that debates that raise controversy  or very strong feelings might need to be limited to registered members only. Reduces trolling

Also think that debates that raise controversy  or very strong feelings might need to be limited to registered members only. Reduces trolling

Punjab spent more on education per capita than British did in England. One of the most advanced education systems in the world. 
The British exported huge amounts of crops to Europe during times of famine. They have actually caused some of the largest famines and mass deaths in world history with their greed. With full knowledge.