Kam1825

right this is the chaupai from the nanaksar gutka

chupai
bahur asur ka katas matha...

kabyo bach choupai
hamri karo hath dae racha...

aril
sunnai gung jo yahi...

choupai
sanbat satrah sahas...

choupai
mai na ganesah pritham manaoo..

kabio bach dohra
jo nij prab mo so kaha so kahiho...

kabio bach dohra
thad bhayo mai jor kar

dohra
dasam katha baghot kee...

savaiya
dhan jio tih ko jag mai mukh...

dohra
ram katha jug jug atal...

choupai
jo ih katha sunnai or gavai..

dohra
sadh asadh jano nahi...

savaiya
panh gahay jab tay...

dohra
sagal dwar ko chad...

the following is the choupai sahib from the rehraas from the giani mohan singh gutka

choupai

punn rachas ka kata sisa...

kabyo bach choupai
hamri karo hath dae racha...

aril
sunnai gung jo yahi...

choupai
sanbat satrah sahas...

dohra
das jan kar das par kijjai..

choupai
mai na ganesah pritham manaoo..

kabio bach dohra
jo nij prab mo so kaha so kahiho...

dohra
har harijan dui ik hai bib...

dohra
jab aies prabh ko bhayo...

kabio bach dohra
thad bhayo mai jor kar

dohra
jay jay tumray dhian ko...

dohra
kal purakh kee deh moh kotak...

dohra
ram katha jug jug atal...

choupai
jo ih katha sunnai or gavai..

dohra
netr tang ke charan tar...

dohra
sadh asadh jano nahi...

savaiya
panh gahay jab tay...

dohra
sagal dwar ko chad...

i will put the bhudda dal one on tomorrow also regarding the aarti and aarta i will open a new thread and do that.

Bhudda Dal starts off with

dohra
mahakaal kaal ki saran jay paray laiy bahayai

ill find the nihang and nanaksar gutkas for tomorrow

According to the two Taksal sampardas the Mahalla 10 was correct and should not have been changed. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Kartar Singh Ji and Sant Jarnail Singh ji state in their katha. All can be found on Gurmatveechar.com. the Amir Bhandar steek also states the same.

very nice, i am busy writing about this salok. have found quotes in teh sooraj prakash, panth parkash, gurmukh parkash and gurbilas patshahi 10 that back up this as being guru gobind singh ji's salok. Thanks

BTW are these photos taken by yourself or belong to others?

i belive the saroop with the writing of Mira Bhai is in the Bhai Bhanno Bir which was made at the same time as the Kartarpur Bir. Extra writings were placed in the Granth by Bhai bhanno such as the rattan mala and extra shabads of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and other sadhus of the Bhagti movement

extract from sikhs.org

An unauthorized edition of the Guru Granth Sahib know as the Banno Bir also exists. Guru Arjan Dev gave this copy of the Granth Sahib to Bhai Banno one of his disciples to take to Lahore for binding. Bhai Banno kept this volume and wrote in some verses of Sudras and Mirabai which it is believed had been rejected by the Guru as well as a few hymns allegedly to be by Guru Nanak at the end of his Granth. Guru Arjan Dev did not approve the Banno Bir. This copy is still in the possession of the descendants of Bhai Banno.

extract from sikh-heritage.com
Bhai Banno was the son of Bishan Chand Bhatia of village Mangat of district Gujarat in Pakistan. He became a faithful follower of Guru Arjan who involved him in the preparation of the Adi Granth. It was written on loose sheets and it was decided to get it bound in a beautiful hard cover at Lahore. Bhai Banno was entrusted with the task of taking the manuscript to Lahore for the purpose. He took Guru Arjan's permission to pass through his native village Mangat. It is said that on the way he prepared another copy with slight variations from the original. He extended the composition of Bhagat Surdas and included a stanza by Mira Bai. Guru Arjan crossed out these additions and declared that version as un-authentic. It is believed that this version is still in possession of the heirs to Bhai Banno. This un-authorized version of the Adi Granth is referred to in Sikh literature as Khari Bir (as it was written in village Khaira) or Bhai Banno ki Bir.

After Sant Jawala Singh Ji three people suceeded them

1) Sant Jodh Singh Ji Harkhowalae who were the oldest of all the vidiathees. They passed away in 2004. They were awesome. They remained at Harkhowal

2) Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowalae who were the youngest of the three Sadhus. They are based at Dera Santgarh in Sultanpur

3) Sant Didar Singh Ji Harkhowalae - think based towards Anandpur Sahib.

It is not about favorites or the true inheritor, that is just a pride issue for the sangat that follow them.

If they are a complete follower they will see the same light in all three

Taksal goes all the way back to guruu gobind singh ji and is originally a Nirmala samparda and is still deeply rooted with the nirmala samparda

If you have a Gurbilas Patshahi 6 by Giani Gyan Singh it is actually not the Gurbilas in its true form but a summary

The Gurbilas Patshahi Chevin usually has three different authors attributed to it. The first is Bhai Mani Singh Ji who is believed to have uttered the works when requested. Bhagat Singh was a student of Bhai Mani Singh Ji who is believed to have re-uttered the work and lastly Sohan Singh is believed to have written the account into the form we have today.


The Gurbilas has been available to purchase from the Patiala University fince the 90's. Jathedar Joginder Singh Vadenti has the book republished in 2002 with forewards from Giani Sant Singh Maskeen and Giani Balwant Singh Ji Kothaguru Wale. However once that came out Kala Afgana wrote his version of Gurbilas Patshahi 6 finding the book full of Brahmanism and because of this Vadentis version was removed.


There are some interesting passages in the granth. The maryada of akhand paaths and Raagmala is found in this granth along with the importance of wearing a keski.

I dont think Guru Gobind Singh Ji were ignorant at all i think Bahadur was ignorant to spin such an interpretation to undermine the Bani and in order for it to help his own personal agenda.

For a start i dont agree with Bahadurs theroy put foreward. It is in conflict with the years of santhiya and vidiyan on the text.

It is Mahadeen and not Mahadoon which in itself is a great tile.

two points -

1) The circumcision is a central part of the semitic faiths and is not prevelant in the sanatan dharma so it rules out any other prophets, gurus or sadhus other then someone from the fold of Islam as towards Punjab their was a lack of christians who were down in the south of India.

2) King of the arabs or Arabia. Why cant this be about Mohammed when Jesus is referred to as the king of the Jews! On the basis of this then Mohammed can be seen as the king of the arabs. In regards of Avtars Ansa Avtar is that of an avtar who is like a righteous king to treats all of the kingdom or rule as his ow children. Mohammed showed mercy to the meccans and trated all as if they were his children who had committed a fault.

The term that Mohammed made all chant his name is from the call to prayer for the namaz where Mohammads name is stated.

I bring this up as i was listening to the Sarbloh Avtar Katha by Baba Santa Singh Ji Nihang whilst bored in a meeting and in the katha the critiques that are reflected in the bachittar natak are also in the sri Sarbloh Granth. The Sri Sarbloh Granth no where states it is a natak. (Personally i dont believe that was the case either with the Bachittar Natak as it meant the wonderful drama which the Lord has manifest) The Sri Sarbloh critiques Ramanand as well and this is not play or drama or an allegorical text!

Its like Bahadurs interpretation of the Vaaran of Bhai Gurdas where it states Mohammed Yaara. The Yaara according to all the teekas i have read is to do with the four friends of Mohamed Abu Baker, Omar, Uthman and Ali. But Bahadur took this to be that Bhai Gurdas Ji was calling Mohammed his friend. If you dont believe me pick up any teeka or listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Jis Katha. Also Bahadurs interpretation of the word 'Turk' is also misleading.

You can listen to the katha by Baba Santa Singh Ji yourself on the following link

http://www.keertan.org/keertan/Katha/Baba%...0Parmeshwar.mp3

Gurfateh quick thing

I have just got a load of recordings of Sant Jagjit Singh Ji which i intend to clean and put up.

The audio will be the following

Adhyatam Parkash Viakhiya
Barah Maha
Brahmchari Katha
Brahmchari & Pati Patni Dharam
Buddhism Root Bani - Dham pad
Dajistarr
Mind, Body & Soul - (Various lectures on Vedant)
Vedant Darshan
Vichar Sagar

Hope to start some more granths soon as well

You mean the Waheguru Mantarath by Pandit Isher Singh Ji Kashi Wale. It is written in sanskrit and is not in print at all. I only know of one individual with a copy and hopefully it will be translated at some point.

Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji give 24 meanings for Rahao!

Bo its from the Sri Sarbloh Granth. I am sure it is on the mangalcharan site. There are three shields (Kavaches)

Ram Kavach - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Brahm Kavach - I think this one can be found in some saropps of the Dasam Granth (also in gurbilas patshahi 6)

Sarbloh Kavach - Sarbloh granth

Damdami Taksal like Bhai Daya Singh Samparda is not mentioned in the mahan kosh, it does not mean the sampardas of sants did not exist. I personally do not see it as a seperate samparda to the nihangs, udasis, nirmalas and sewapanthis as if you go through the taksal sants they belonged and acquired knowledge from various sampardas and belonged to various sampardas. If they are in the mahan kosh i apologise for not researching it earlier

Baba Gurbaksh Singh and Baba Deep Singh were nihangs
Bhai Mani Singh and the Sato Gali Taksal are all sewapanthis
Baba Harnam Singh Ji Bedi were from the bedi lineage
Baba Sundar Singh Bhindrawalae and Baba Bishan Singh Murale were nirmala
Baba Gurbachan Sngh Ji were initially nihangs and later nirmalas.

I am sure in the mahan kosh different sant sampardas are not mentioned it does not mean they did not exist.

Sant Giani Gurbachan SIngh Ji's Mul Mantra Teeka has now been translated with parmans and sakhis, coming out soon just waiting on publishers to get everything in order

Apologies, full review of the book by a genuine scholar below for those who want to read it
 
Review of the Mool Mantar commentary
In 2015 Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi of Leicester published an English commentary of the Mool Mantar. There have already been written dozens of such commentaries. However, what makes this book so fascinating and unique is that it is based on the research and writings of Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale who was one of the greatest Sikh scholars of the 20th century. The book follows the traditional interpretations (sampradaya arth) of Sikhi which have been passed down orally through many centuries. While the ocean of traditional sampradayic wisdom is abundant in the Punjabi language, this book appears to be the first attempt of introducing the traditional interpretations in the English language solely targeting a western audience. This is what makes this book so spectacular and fascinating.
The book has an easy layout and is divided into several chapters. The first chapter sets the context and position of the Japji Sahib in the Sikh tradition. By drawing on sophisticated and difficult writings not easily available to Sikhs in the west - Nanak Prakash, Suraj Prakash, Gurmukh Prakash and the Rahitname - Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi has shown how the Japji Sahib has always been an integral and foundational aspect of the Sikh tradition. Many passages of these aforementioned books have been translated to English for the first time in history, showing how many of the Gurus have successively praised the Japji Sahib and what benefits the devotee will gain from reciting the holy verses.
The second chapter is a discussion on how Guru Nanak and his revelation fits in with the wider Indic traditions of religion and what sets Guru Nanak apart from the earlier avatars and India religions of the past. The purpose of this chapter is to show the readers how Guru Nanak’s message is a continuation of earlier dharams while at the same time being distinct and independent. There are several quotations from the Puranas , Upanishads and Islam to enhance and enforce the message of Guru Nanak. The impression you get from reading this chapter is that Sikhi is not a faith that originated out of the blue in the 15th century. Rather, Sikhi is a majestic faith with roots going back several thousands of years to the early days of creation. Classifying Sikhi as an old religious tradition is a typical outlook in the samprdayic traditions, but it is the first time I have seen such depth in the English language. The chapter draws heavily on the sophisticated terminology of Vedanta while showing how these concepts are present in the Guru Granth Sahib.
On page 63 begins the Mool Mantar commentary itself. Each word of the Mool Mantar has been given several meanings drawing from the Sikh tradition and the many Sanskrit origins of the various words. Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi shows how the Mool Mantar can be interpreted from its historical context but also from its linguistics. I was personally fascinated to see the depths of the Mool Mantar and how the different words add deeper perspectives to the Sikh faith, clearly showing how Sikhi is a universal faith welcoming people of all backgrouns and religious traditions. The chapter shows how on the one level the Mool Mantar can be engaged with purely within the Sikh tradition and from a purely meditative approach. On the other hand the chapter shows how the Mool Mantar fits perfectly into centuries old traditional Indic philosophy and the chapter gives a glimpse of how the Nirmala, Udasi and Taksali scholars of the past have been using, positioning and categorizing the mool mantar in their wider discussions with Brahmin priests and scholars all over India. This sophisticated level, I believe, is an aspect most Sikhs in the west have been deprived. In this chapters, Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi has drawn from Guru Granth Sahib, the vaars of Bhai Gurdas and the Persian ghazals of Bhai Nand Lal Goya. Interestingly, the commentary also draws on the lesser studied Sarukhtavali Granth and Vichar Sagar which have been integral books of the traditional samprdaic curriculum. The Puranas, Vedas, Ramayan and Upanishads are also referenced throughout this chapter.
The book is not written as a dry and academic book you read once and then forget everything about. Rather, it has been written with the purpose of inspiring Sikh youth in the west to develop an interest for the traditional and esoteric interpretations of Sikh philosophy. The roman spelling of Gurmat philosophical terms have been kept (instead of merely translating them and keeping the original words out). I believe this has been done purposefully to widen the readers’ vocabulary as well as to inspire them to look deeper into these philosophical concepts by their own study. I am pretty sure Kamalpreet Singh will succeed in his mission of inspiring and widening the plurality of Sikh expression in the west, not only by his online activities, but also with the publication of books like this, of which this book is only amongst the first.
I am looking forward to future writings and translations of Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi.
Enjoy the reading!

Some terrible self promotion below; there are some facebook updates promoting the book and the podcasts by other users. This is for those who have requested to read some views before thinking about having a look through the books to purchase? Dont worry after this I wont put anything up self promoting and heightening my pride and ego!
 
Review 01
A great resource for all the students who want to further their understanding of Gurbani. This is probably the first 'Sampardai' translation of the Mool Mantar in English which goes into superb detail. This book translated by Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji is based on very spiritually deep commentaries of Sri Jap Ji Sahib such as Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji's Katha, Sant Kartar Singh Ji's Jap Ji Sahib teeka, Sant Giani Kirpal Singh Ji's Amir Bhandar and many more. Alongside this Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji has included detailed footnotes, which will help you understand concepts from Gurbani, Itihaas, & vedant clearly. You can purchase this book on the below given link.
 
Review 02
I received this steek a few days ago and have to say that it is the most amazing steek I have ever read! Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji has managed to describe the most heavenly concepts in a way that any reader can understand and digest. Once you have read this book you will look and recite the Moolmantar in a completely different way. I was completely unaware of the vast depth in these words of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. The book is full of great footnotes that allows for a deeper understanding and reading. It is a book for true seekers and everyone must read it regardless of their jathebani affiliation. May Gurusahibji continue to bless Bhai Kamalpreet Singhji as a vessel to share their knowledge.
 
Review 03
I was asked by a very humble brother to review something for him. I figure if I am to review something of great value that can significantly improve someone's understanding and connection with Gurbani - I must try to share this with a wider number of souls...
Have you heard of the podcast 'Sikhism in Snippets'? You can find it here and subscribe to it at: http://kam1825.podbean.com
Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Jee - a highly knowledgeable Gursikh is the Singhjee behind this podcast - some of you may know him to be the genius behind the website www.gurmatveechar.com - which is a priceless treasure that has served me immensely in my own journey. Gurmat Veechar has countless Sikhi resources ranging from Audio, Katha / Gurbani Ucharaan to Gurbani Literature - both in english and Gurnukhi/Punjabi.
Bhai Sahibjee sent out a call for support 6/7 months back - requesting sponsorship for his podcast so he could begin another project he is dedicated to - editing and translating Gurbani discourses of Sant Mahapurshs and Gurbani Vidvaans. His sewa has meant that the likes of you and I are able to have ease of access to the Gyaan of Puratan Gursikhs in written form - but also translated to english in a straightforward manner.
On top of all of this - as great as his sewa is, his humility is genuinely greater for he continues to thank the sponsors who stepped forward as being the 'enablers' of this sewa of producing these books. I am privileged to be a sponsor of the podcast but feel I personally am not able to begin to give anything in return to equal what I am taking away...
Currently, I have been blessed with three of Bhai Sahibjee's publications and reading them is truly an intense experience - the most recent of which you can purchase for yourself from the following link: http://www.lulu.com/…/jap-j…/paperback/product-22635068.html
If you would like to purchase any of these books you can also contact Bhai Sahibjee directly (copied below).
Finally, you can also step forward and become a sponsor so that Bhai Sahibjee is able to continue his extremely valuable sewa. For as little as $20 a month (thats about £14 for UK based Sangat). You will also then receive any future publications as they are published.

There is commentary and footnotes as well, however my view is biased, I am not sure if Neo or Paapimaan have their copies yet as they will be able to give you their view. Amardeep Singh has a copy he may be able to shed some light for you if you require.

This is for those who may be interested, I have had the opportunity to write a number of books recently, initially they were for sponsors of the podcasts but due to demand I have decided to put some of them out on a self publication site. Slowly they will increase in number with the Sarkutavali Teeka and Gagar Cho sagar also being added in June and August respetively.

At the moment there are three books available to purchase which are the 'Sahaskriti and Gatha Teeka by Mahant Ganesha Singh', 'Matra by Baba Sri Chand Ji' and 'The Jap Ji Sahib Katha 01 - Mul Mantra Katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindrawale'
They are all on the following link
https://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?contributorId=1393200
Thank you, and just so you anyone is aware there is no profit for these books as they all go back into the Sikhism in Snippits podcast

Yes i have read the Sarkutavali, very good text, part of the early learning in taksal and the nirmala sampardas.

Covers topics such as:
Adhiyai 01 : Dharam
Adhiyai 02 : Guru
Adhiyai 03 : Avidiya, Upma, Seva
Adhiyai 04 : Gyan
Adhiyai 05 : Vichar
Adhiyai 06 : 8 abstances
Adhiyai 07 : Mantar and Sargun

etc it goes on for 15 adhiyai and is worth reading over again and again.

The steek by Bhai Bhagwaan Singh is really poor so i think you have been misinformed. I suggest the teeka by Sachkhand vasi Sant (Mahant) Surjit Singh Ji Sevapanthi which is called the 'Sidhant Bhandar'. You can pick it up for 100 rupees

Sarkutavali Katha has been recorded by Giani Hardeep Singh Ji Hazoor Sahib Walae but i have to get it sent over from Hazoor Sahib due to the number of tapes along with their handwritten teeka. Will post it up when i get it

Sri Narayan Hari Updesh is awesome, lots of Vedantic texts are quoted, very difficult to pronounce all the quotes correctly. I forgot which Nirmala Pandit wrote it but it has to be a gem amongst the literature avaialable. The Sakhia in it are fantastic. I dont really know how else to describe it.

If you do not have Sri Narayan Hari Updesh i suggest it to all as a must have!!!

going back to the original post regarding this i dont think i can trust the majority of the stuff on sarbloh.info regarding taksal.

In the site it critisices the lineage from Baba Deeep Singh Ji and says that this isnt the lineage that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji accepted.

All niddar had to do was listen to their katha which is on www.kathaa.com as 9 minutes into the second mp3 they state their is two lineages one from Bhai Mani Singh which at the time Sant Kirpal Singh Ji was heading and know headed by Sant Makhan Singh Ji also know as Sat Gali Walae Jatha.

Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji state that they head the taksal started by Baba Deep Singh Ji. If that isn't enough truth that they accepted it and it wasn't just made up by Sant Kartar Singh Ji to gain popularity then i don't know how brain washed and messed they are!

I tried to post this on the original Dam Dami Taksal thread but it was closed due to the topic getting way off the subject.

The issue i raise is that many people have stated that Taksal did not exist prior to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji or Sant Kartar SIngh Ji. Also that the Giani Samparda has never been around before Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji

I got hold of The Kabit Savaiyai Steek by Giani Bishan SIngh ji from 1911. In this he mentions the sources he has used to complete his Dasam and Sri Guru Granth Shaib steeks in the years 1900 - 1905. Two of the sources used are from the late 19th century which ar steeks on the Sri GUru Granth Shaib Ji and Dasam Granth.

Guru Granth Sahib Steek by Giani Bhagwan SIngh Ji Sampardai Taksal.
Dasam Granth by Giani Bakhshish Singh Ji Sampardai Taksal

Again thos poses the question. If the sampardai taksal was only 'made up' in the early 20th century then how come we can find people stated they belong to the Giani Sampardai Damdami Taksal in the 19th century?

That would mean Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Did pargat of a Devi when they went to war

That is a very good point to note. I personally have no belief that Guru Ji did aradhna of the devi for her to become pargat prior to the birth of the khalsa or yudh. They are full belief in akaal purkh and state 'Tehee Durga Saaj Kai Danta Da Naas Karaiya'!

Why would Guru Ji need to do this when their form was of Akaal purkh what is the need of any being when you are superior int he first place. (Aap narayan Kaladhar Jag Mai Parvariyo)

I think this concept is only accepted by the nihang samparda as everyone i have spoken to from the four other sampardas do not accept this notion as all!

from baba ishar singh ji there are now numerous nanaksar sants.

Baba Amar Singh Ji
Baba Miah Singh Ji
Baba Kundan Singh Ji
Baba Gurdev Singh Ji
Baba Nahr Singh Ji