Lucky

Totally agree.
Because there is no one single definition to describe naam, shabad and naad,.. they are sometimes used interchangeably.
You have to experience it for yourself and you will know when ''Naam'' begins to get pargat and then how you start getting attuned to it.
A simple way of helping yourself to understand it is to think of the naad, shabad, oung....as being a vibration- just like everything else in the Universe.
As per physics; we know that to graph a vibrational wave with peaks and troughs, there is always some source or origin where it begins or originates from.....and if we eliminate this source of origin, then the vibrational wave ceases to exist.
A wave of vibration, as we understand is also what connects the source of origin to the receiver/perceiver.
....bearing this mind, I like to think of -
-Naam as being the source of origin... or the infinite/unknown. aad jugadh, ajuni source
-Naad or shabad as being the vibrational wave that is active in all of creation.... this is analogous to a sound wave, but not like the one's on this physical plane where they diminish in amplitude over a distance. The NAAM is continuous and is not affected by any resistive forces.
As per anand sahib....'Naam jin kai mann vasia, vajey shabad ganerey''....... the Naam becomes pargat or manifests when one hears/feels the shabad vibrating within the mind. This goes on 24/7. If it's not 24/7, then it is not pargat yet.
We could also say that one begins to get taste and feel this naam state of mind by connecting with the shabad/naad
 
Getting back to the OP question
''Is Naam the Anhad Naad?"......
Well, anhad naad is a form of the naam or a manner in which one experiences naam. Strictly speaking, it's impossible to configure or describe in words unless one begins to experience it through naam kamayee. And all abyasees will tell you the same.
You will also understand that Naam is not something that can be initiated by master whispering into initiates ear.. .as sometimes understood by some Naam is also not inured or obtained in amrit sanchar either
We have to earn all of these with free will and efforts (Kamayee)

Fair enough Singhji, you are entitled to your opinion.
You mentioned Sant Baba Nand Singh ji..... and I just wanted to give a little more information.

I have come across previously where Baba Isher Singh ji stressed the importance of simran/shabad/gurbani as the only true means of mukhti.
When he says the 'only true means', this is not indicating that he is not regarding sacred amrit as much, but he says something along the lines that to attain mukhti you have to die first and the amrit ceremony and devotion to rehat is when you offer your head and completely overcome any fear of death..

In short-.......
Partaking amrit is the step when you overcome fear of death and offer/sacrifice of mann, tanh.
Simran/gurbani/bhagti is to merge and attain mukhti from cycle of birth/death.... this is the kamayee, and has to be earned with self effort.

You mention manmukh and gurmukh in above post-
I think Singhji that the status of Gurmukh is not immediately earned after partaking in amrit, but I would call it the status of 'Gursikh'.
To be Gurmukh, you have to live by gurbani and partake in both bhagti/simran and amrit.. ..ie..Miri-Piri concept

I hope that makes a little more sense as that's what I currently understand !

In the GRM there exists some satatments that are very hard to justify as anything but sexist. I would like someone to please clarify because some of you delcare that the GRM is THE RM of Guru Ji, and that it is infallible. You also state that women are not excluded from anything except Panj Pyare (that they are free to participate equally in every other seva and that women are seen as equals by Damdami Taksal) but statements like the ones I am about to post paint an entirely different picture. Not only is it not only Panj Pyare that specifically states 'Singhs' other positions of authority - all of them (Granthi, Akhand Paath etc.) - also state 'Singh' so therefore using the reasoning that Panj can not be women because it says 'Singhs' means you also have to restrict women from nearly every other seva as well.

It's not just in the context of Panj Pyare that states 'Singh' in GRM. Therefore, contradictory to what some of you have stated about DDT treating women as equals aside from Panj Pyare seva, women are actually restricted from almost ALL seva by DDT:

Quoted directly from DDT's OWN website, and their OWN copy of Gurmat Rehet Maryada...

Women can not prepare Karah Prashad, or recite Anand Sahib:

" Two highly disciplined Singh’s should prepare Karah Parshad and bring it into the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and then recite Anand SahibA prayer of bliss which was revealed by the 3rd Guru, Sri Guru Amar Das Jee "

Or act as Granthi:

"The Panj Pyare and Granthi Singh are to also clean their Kirpans and Karas with sand and then wash their GatrasKirpan holsters;"

...and it's not just Granthi for Amrit Sanchar either:

"After completing the verse, the Granthi Singh is to place the Rumala back over Sri Guru Granth Sahib."

Or birth ceremony:

"An Amritdhari Singh should get a Sarab Loh bowl and half fill it with water."

Or paathi during Akhand Paath:

"The Paathi Singhs are to wear clean clothing and must bathe before starting on their Paath seva."

Or Chaur Sahib Seva:

"One Singh is to do Chaur Sahib Seva whilst one is to go ahead of Satguru Jee…”

Or kirtan / Ragee.....even if there are no male Ragees:

"If Ragee Singhs cannot be found, then the Granthi Singh is to recite each Lav, place the Rumala over Guru Sahib and then recite "Satnam, Vaaheguroo" whilst the couple walk/circumbabulate around Guru Sahib."

^^^ THIS is why women are still unable to do kirtan at Sri Harmandir Sahib... the opposition was DDT and Sant Samaj. And THIS is why!!!!


Further reading of GRM brings to light some statements directly found within the Gurmat Rehet Maryada that outright states that women are beneath men:


GRM under heading Haraam – Adultery, sexual relationships outside of marriage:

"A Singh must look upon his wife as his faithful Singhni (follower). In the same manner a Singhni must look upon her husband as Parmeshwar (God)."

Damdami Taksal directly instructs women in the GRM to view their husbands as God, while the men view their wives as a faithful follower... a subordinate. She is not even instructed to simply view him as a leader in a family sense, but in a sense that his authority over her is the same as if he were God....or not even 'as if he were' but she is too look at him AS God!

Note: It has been suggested that this statement has some deep hidden meaning. However, Gurbani may contain metaphors and deeper meaning meant to be contemplated, but this is found in the GRM... Rehet Maryada is direct instruction to be followed! It is not meant to be some poetic and deep meaning, or else we could contest also the statement about Panj Pyares being 'Singhs' also being poetic! So if Rehet Maryada is a direct instruction, then it's clear what it is telling women to do.

Further investigation reveals more remarks in this light:

Here is another example… found in the GRM under the heading Fasting, where the entire meaning of the shabad in its original context has been ignored so that the exact opposite meaning of one tuk was misinterpreted to suggest that women should view their husbands as God. This I believe was the basis for the line I quoted above. However, when the entire shabad it was taken from is taken into context, it becomes apparent that the meaning was twisted to become something sexist.

Here is the correct translation - when taking into account the meaning of the FULL shabad in it’s entirety:

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,

ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||


In contrast here is DDT’s translation of the lines above:
(http://www.damdamitaksaal.org/26-code-of-conduct)
Directly written in GRM, found under the heading Fasts:

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
"Guru Jee says, she who looks upon Her Husband as the Lord, is blessed and has firm faith; great are

ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥
those wives and they are received with honour in the Court of the Lord."



Damdami Taksal’s translation does not make sense when you take the entire shabad as a whole:

This entire shabad speaks out against the practice of satee by Hindu wives on their husband’s funeral pyre. The Shabad is suggesting that the wives do not become filled with so much attachment to their husbands that they kill themselves when their husbands die….That the true satee is in continuing to live through the loss and instead to see the Transcendent Lord as her husband (as we are all instructed to do as soul-brides).

Damdami Taksal are taking it way out of context, ignoring the full shabad, and then translating those two lines wrongly to mean the opposite of what they actually do! They take it to mean that wives should view their husband as the Lord (in other words suggesting the wife should submit to her husband and be subordinate to him as though he were God).

It makes absolutely no sense in the context of the entire shabad, and besides that it goes against what is written in Gurbani about equality, status of women, and the fact that the SAME divine light is within everyone, males and females equally! It also sounds to me like an attempt to Bhraminize Sikhi as this concept of women viewing men as God is seen in Hinduism (Mahabharata/Smriti: husbands are the highest diety of their wives) and also Islam for that matter (Quran: Muhammad makes statement that if he were to have anyone prostrate anyone else it would be the wives prostrating their husbands).

SGGSJ however, speaks to the equality of gender:

Page 1020, Line 15
ਆਪੇ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਨਾਰੀ ॥
You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the female.

Page 96, Line 9
ਏਕੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਮਾਟੀ ਸਭ ਏਕਾ ਸਭ ਏਕਾ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਬਾਈਆ ॥
There is only one breath; all are made of the same clay; the light within all is the same.


Here is the full context of the shabad those lines were taken from so you can see the actual meaning:


ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਆਏ ਸੰਜੋਗ ॥
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, they come together through destiny.
ਜਿਚਰੁ ਆਗਿਆ ਤਿਚਰੁ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਭੋਗ ॥੧॥
As long as the Lord commands, they enjoy their pleasures. ||1||
ਜਲੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਾਮ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥
By burning oneself, the Beloved Lord is not obtained.
ਕਿਰਤਿ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਸਤੀ ਉਠਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Only by the actions of destiny does she rise up and burn herself, as a 'satee'. ||1||Pause||

ਦੇਖਾ ਦੇਖੀ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥
Imitating what she sees, with her stubborn mind-set, she goes into the fire.
ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਵਾਈਐ ॥੨॥
She does not obtain the Company of her Beloved Lord, and she wanders through countless incarnations. ||2||
ਸੀਲ ਸੰਜਮਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
With pure conduct and self-restraint, she surrenders to her Husband Lord's Will;
ਤਿਸੁ ਨਾਰੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਜਮਾਨੈ ॥੩॥
that woman shall not suffer pain at the hands of the Messenger of Death. ||3||
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,
ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||


I believe inconsistencies like this are what are breeding the feelings that women should be beneath men in some sort of divine hierarchy as was suggested many times on this forum.

Remember this is written directly in the Gurmat Rehet Maryada that many of you are demanding that everyone take as THE rehet maryada of Guru Ji. How can it be THE Rehet Maryada of Guru Ji when it goes so far against his teachings of equality, and takes single tuks out of context of the shabad they are from to misinterpret them into something that instead of uplifting women like was originally intended (as easily seen when the entire shabad is read in its full context), it instead puts them in to subordinate position? So how can it be stated to be THE Rehet Maryada of Guru Ji and how can it be claimed to be infallible when inconsistencies like this are blatently apparent, just by viewing the full shabad?? (in ANY language, English, or Punjabi) the shabad itself is what gives the context!

Remember that the quotes above are from Damdami Taksal's OWN website, from their OWN copy of Gurmat Rehet Maryada!

Or how about THIS doosey of an inconsistency for you: Sant Jarnail Singh Ji stated he is against women in Panj, but he stated that women should be allowed all other seva. So he actually spoke AGAINST what is stated in Gurmat Rehet Maryada. If indeed DDT's GRM is THE RM directly from Guru Ji himself, then why would SANT Jarnail Singh Ji speak AGAINST it??? It's obviously clearly stated that only Singhs can do most of the seva right??

Can anyone please explain??

The SRM maryada does not uphold either view as binding on the Panth. If one wishes to follow the SRM then they should with honest intention, and as yourself who follows the akj rehat, so should you with honest intention follow that. To pick and choose at SRM and try to force it on the panth is wrong.

Eating eggs only compromises rehat in your view. Its very arrogant to strongly advise giving up eggs.

Totally agree.
Because there is no one single definition to describe naam, shabad and naad,.. they are sometimes used interchangeably.
You have to experience it for yourself and you will know when ''Naam'' begins to get pargat and then how you start getting attuned to it.
A simple way of helping yourself to understand it is to think of the naad, shabad, oung....as being a vibration- just like everything else in the Universe.
As per physics; we know that to graph a vibrational wave with peaks and troughs, there is always some source or origin where it begins or originates from.....and if we eliminate this source of origin, then the vibrational wave ceases to exist.
A wave of vibration, as we understand is also what connects the source of origin to the receiver/perceiver.
....bearing this mind, I like to think of -
-Naam as being the source of origin... or the infinite/unknown. aad jugadh, ajuni source
-Naad or shabad as being the vibrational wave that is active in all of creation.... this is analogous to a sound wave, but not like the one's on this physical plane where they diminish in amplitude over a distance. The NAAM is continuous and is not affected by any resistive forces.
As per anand sahib....'Naam jin kai mann vasia, vajey shabad ganerey''....... the Naam becomes pargat or manifests when one hears/feels the shabad vibrating within the mind. This goes on 24/7. If it's not 24/7, then it is not pargat yet.
We could also say that one begins to get taste and feel this naam state of mind by connecting with the shabad/naad
 
Getting back to the OP question
''Is Naam the Anhad Naad?"......
Well, anhad naad is a form of the naam or a manner in which one experiences naam. Strictly speaking, it's impossible to configure or describe in words unless one begins to experience it through naam kamayee. And all abyasees will tell you the same.
You will also understand that Naam is not something that can be initiated by master whispering into initiates ear.. .as sometimes understood by some Naam is also not inured or obtained in amrit sanchar either
We have to earn all of these with free will and efforts (Kamayee)

Most Indian religions, sects and cults believe this, yes. In Guru Granth Sahib, Ram naam is the name of the Anhad naad. Onkar is another name. And there are other countless names.
But this is only lip service.To truly understand the answer you have to meditate on Naam, ie do naam simran, and find out yourself!

Guru Ramdas ji says
ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

i have read a lot of beas books..radhaswamis dont consider tinnitus as anhad shabad..but they consider that these innitial sounds are the way to the anhad shabd..from practical experience my grandfather who is both amrit dhari and radhaswami once heard a bell sound which took him out of the body..he could see his body in front..the he was caried by some force and he saw a very bright light...he said that it was so bright that even sun is nothing when compared..it all happened due to that uplifting bell sound..so i believe along with waheguru jap this exercise should also be included

The Amrit of which our Guru Sahibans , Gurmukhs and bhagats talk about, is the one which takes us out from the planes of mortality, to the realm of immortality.

As seen in the post above, Guru Sahiban is telling us, that, that Amrit is none other than the Shabad itself. This Amrit is not to be drunk like we prepare here with water and other elements.

Different dharams have their way of preparing it.

But the true Amrit, which makes us immortal, by removing all our impurities and bandhans of karmas, sanskaras, freedom from the 5 vikars, mind and maya, is, Wahiguru´s Name or Naam. The outer amrits are just rituals and symbols, while the inner one is the Truth itself.

The outer one is had through the mouth, gives us some taste, goes into the intestinal system and is flushed out, that is it at most.

Some people think that by bathing in sacred waters, their sins are washed away. That is also manmat.

We must bear in mind, that anything made out of the 5 perisahble and insentient elements of the creation, can not be anything than perishable as its origin.

Our human body is made out of the combination of all the 5 elemnts together, and if that very body perishes, which is not man made, but created by Nature and puffed with spirit which gives it life, how can we ever think, that the amrit made by us, will make us pure and permanent?

It maybe a ritual, a custom widely followed by the majority, but, let us see carefully the words of the Bani of our Guru Sahibans, and see and compare if the Amrit which they refer, is the same as we tend to think or take....

They say, the Amrit is Shabad.

And as Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj tells us in Raag Prabhaatee:
oopar koop gagan panihaaree amrith peevanehaaraa
The Well is high up in the Tenth Gate; the Ambrosial Nectar flows, and I drink it .

He clearly points us where is that Amrit to be found. He says, the well from where it flows , is right up within us, in the Tenth Gate, and I drink it.

Now, to have this Amrit from that inner and upper well, we have to reach there, not otherwise.

What have we got to do, to reach there?

There are no outer vehicles or stairs to reach. There is only one stair, only one path without second, and that is His Simran, which elevates us to that Tenth gate to enter within, and then once inside, one gets that Amrit. And this Amrit is not to be had by the mouth, but by the mind and soul.

If had being a wadbhagee, it weakens the mind to the extent that, that very dusht mind is subdued totally, and the soul is empowered and regains its true essence and awareness, thus is freed and again with the aid of Nam / Shabad, reaches back to its Nijh Ghar Sach Khand.
And as this Amrit is Shabad, this means, it is had by having the Darshan of the Jot emanating from it, and is to be listened by the mind and soul, to the Dhun or the Sound Current, as main manifestations.

Shabad is Sound Current, and so, it has to be listened, ultimately by the Soul.

And this has to be done by each one of us. It is not like for example, like the hindus go to the river Ganges, and some family members or friends tell them to bring a couple of bottles filled with that water ......

No, no, no ..... it is not anything as such.

The river Ganges maybe one only for all people.

But the well from which True Amrit flows, Wahiguru gracefully and wisely has kept it within each one of us, for us to drink it to our full brim.


The veechar in this post is not done to hurt anyone´s feelings or emotions, but is done with the sole purpose, to bring awareness within us, and justice to the teachings of our Guru Sahibans. We people do things in our perspectives and limited knowledge, but Wahiguru does things in the best possible way, full of grace, full of mercy and full of uncondtional love. That is why, if things are done in His way, they work, otherwise we humans are shameless and corrupted crooks.

So please forgive me, if anybody is hurt.

We must bear in mind, we are not important.

It is only Wahiguru, and His Nam, which is important, and the Truth He shared with us, through the teachings of the Gurmukhs, Bhagat Jans, and Guru Sahibans in the Bani.

And this Truth, is nothing else, but Shabad and only Shabad, everything else is "koor".

Sat Sree Akal.

As per the title of this thread "Purpose of Amrit", das would like to share some bachans of Dhan Dhan Guru Amar Das Maharaj, in Raag Maajh :

amrit naam man vasaa-ay, ha-umai mayraa sabh dukh gavaa-ay.
Enshrining the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, in the mind,
all the pains of egotism, selfishness and conceit are eliminated.

In the very first begining, He tells us that: Nam Simran is a type of Amrit, which if enshrined in the mind, means to reach a stage by saas saas Simran, in which, the Simran goes rom rom within us, and the result is, that, our mind gets purified to an extent, thus we experiment a change in our behaviour. Our haume, me, mine, ego, greed, selfishness, desires, 5 vikars, are substituted by the followwing virtues: humility, patience, forbearance, forgiveness, detachment / vairag, and above all devotion for His Lotus Feet.

All our pains and sins are due to our misbehaviour as beasts, rather than as godly human beings. So here, Guru Jee is telling us that by drinking the Amrit of Nam Simran, we loose our chains with the perishable world, and tighten our relation, dhoree, with Wahiguru

This is the first step in ruhaniyat or parmarath.

Then He tells us :
amrit banee sadaa salaahay amrit amrit paavni-aa.
By continually praising the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, I obtain the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar.

Here He is telling us, that, by continuos praising the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, which means, continous, incessant parctice of Nam Simran, means, we have done the jugtee of Nam simran with such faith, love and devotion, that our mind is subdued, the deewar, the curtain between us and Wahiguru, has been torn off, and so, I obtain the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar.


Now, we may ask, If Nam Simran is a type of Amrit as said above, which Amrit is now referring to, Dhan Guru Amar Das, which is produced by Nam Simran?

Well, to this question, once again He himself gives us the answer in the following line:

amrit sabad, amrit har banee.
The Shabad is Amrit; the Lord's Bani is Amrit.

Here, He tells us that, the Shabad, the Sound current is the Amrit.

By His utter Grace, Guru Jee is telling us, how to produce or get the real Amrit.

First of all, He said, doing Nam Simran is a type of Amrit, but the real Amrit is the Shabad, and if Amrit is Shabad, is the celestial Bani resounding within us nonstop, means that, Nam Simran, purifies us that much, that we start to listen the Shabad Dhun. Listening to this Shabad Dun within us, is according to our Guru Sahibans, the drinking of the real Amrit within us.

By listening to this Shabad, or drinking the Amrit, our sins, or karmas are all wiped away. Sachay Patshah Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, reffering to it, says in Japji Sahib: Suniye, paap dukh ka naas. Listen to it and all your pains and sins shall be destryed, means come to an end, thus no more cycle of births and deaths.

The same is said by Guru Amar Das below.
amrit banee si-o chit laa-ay amrit sabad vajaavani-aa.
Those who focus their consciousness on the Ambrosial Bani of the Word(Nam Simran), hear the vibrations of the Ambrosial Word of the Shabad.


Now, after this short veechar, we have seen how is this Amrit produced ,and where to look for it, but still one may ask: who can have this Amrit ?

For that our question, Guru Jee clears our horizons:
one can not get it by copying others, neither by any of our tricks, nor by force, but, only by His Daya meher, His Grace, by His Mauj.

tayray bhaanay vich amrit vasai toon bhaanai, amrit pee-aavni-aa.
In Your Sweet Will, the Amrit is found; by Your Will, You inspire us to drink in this Amrit.

This means, we may put any amount of errforts, but only those whom He wants to call back to Him, do this type of Gurbhakti, devotion according to the Bani, the rest will wander in the chaurasee, with their manmat.

Nevertheless for the mean time, we may read the Bani and follow it implicitly, remain in Sadh Sangat, do seva with mind, body and with our surtee, try to defeat the mind and throw away all our bad vices and replace them with godly virtues, thus make us fit in His eyes, that He may shower upon us His Daya Meher, and make us worthy to do the right devotion as per the Bani, and be such wadbhagees, that one day we may also drink His Amrit, by His will ( hukmay amrit pee-aavni-aa)..

Sat Sree Akal.
May God bless all.

They are relying on faulty english translations. And ironically they take things out of context to make their argument.
I'll give you two examples.

I've posted on this before so will quote myself here.

In response to point 1. This is faulty english translation.

In fact, it wasn't only Bhagat Kabir. The Gurus and Bhagats and Sikhs whose bani is in Guru Granth Sahib were all vegetarians.


Point 3 is in fact talking about killing. Bismil and Halaal are referring to killing rather than sacrifice. Instead of adding context the article removes context.
The context to this is another shabad by Kabir sahib that talks about killing animals.

He says it bluntly, it is wrong to kill animals.




Again this is a faulty English translation. He is not referring to the Mullah's beliefs. He is in fact saying that the Mullah is wrong and he should contemplate Ved and Kateb.
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
Do not say Ved and Kateb, false are those who do not contemplate them.
ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥
When they (Ved and Kateb) say that there is Khudai/divinity in all beings, then why do you kill chickens?


Bhagat Kabir ji says it again and again in different ways, and using all kinds of rhetoric, but the underlying argument is the same - It is wrong to kill animals.

Thanks to the members on this form, gyan from Guru Granth Sahib, few other Gurmukhs, reading Sri Guru Nanak Chamatkar book by Bhai Sahib Bhai Vir Singh Ji.
I have also come to realise the Gurmantra/GurShabad should be the most important.

As Lucky said "sounds start to get captivating and magnetic, and they begin to pull you in deeper"


This is also mentioned on another site.
"it is easy for the mind to get over-involved - almost OCD - in listening to inner sounds and trying to determine which is better or "right". In the process, the mind becomes like a dog incessantly chasing its tail. Instead, Charan Singh tells us to simply keep repeating and focusing on Simran. The more your attention is wholly and solely focused upon Simran, the more it will be immersed in the Sound Current - and, in the process, the subordinate sounds will fade into the background and the real, Eternal Sound will emerge into your focus, lift you up above body-consciousness and guide you within"

As it says in Guru Granth Sahib chant the Gurmantra, day and night while standing, sitting, sleeping, eating, walking, working, etc.

Gurmukh said if we can not make our mind sit without taking thoughts for 3 hours then it will be very heard to merge into naam. Therefore, must keep doing simran to make mind sit.

If we take a thought to transition from Gurmantra to Naam then we take a thought which will put us back into Maya, Therefore, make mind so still that when Naam comes it automatically pulls you within without you taking a thought.

Also to add, Gurpreet Shimla Wale in his kirtan/katha mentioned that we are to keep chanting the Gurmantra because it will eventually go into rom rom (heartbeat and cells).

I think that once Gurmantra goes into heartbeat, then one is able to listen to the Naad. It says in Guru Granth Sahib Ji "the Sound-current of the Naad vibrates in each and every heart".

If I made any mistakes, forgive me, I too am still learning on this path.
Man tan antari Hari Hari Mant. Nanak bhagtan kai ghar sadaa anand: The Mantra of God's Name, Har, Har, is deep Within my mind and body. O Nanak, eternal bliss fills the home of God's devotees (sggs 802). Raam Naam Mant hirdai daivai Nanak milan subhaaye: The Mantra of the Raam Naam is enshrined Within the heart, O Nanak, and we merge with Him so easily (sggs 444).

indeed, am enjoying the input of 'open minded' individuals that are more interested in inspiring and learning than combating beliefs...

Welcome ChazS1ngh !

You are right, it really pushes your inner ego to the limits at times.
I have to constantly remind myself that it is ALL him and his kirpa.

All I ever pray and ask for is that LOVE keep getting enshrined and stronger. I beg that I don't accidentally let a veil come over that connection.
We all know just how easy that is in the world we live in.

I hope you inspire and get inspired on this forum.
Many members have influenced and motivated each other in many aspects. I think there is material and information on here that you will not find anywhere else or that no person, institution or gurudwara would ever have told you.
Most of it is confirmed and acknowledged in some sort of practical approach or experience, and I don't know anywhere else where these kind of contributions exist.

As far as I realize, in the early stages- we should keep Gurmantar/Shabad at the forefront.
I always kept, or tried to keep the main dhyan on the gurmantar and jap.
Initially, I probably tried to ignore them because at that point I didn't have much understanding...but I always thought that waheguru knows I'm trying to jap, so he must be putting them there for some reason.
But you should acknowledge them and not let them digress you away from gurmantar.

Later, the sounds start to get captivating and magnetic, and they begin to pull you in deeper.

You devil

Does she meditate now?

Totally, I initially noticed it when I would wake up doing simran sometimes or I wake up and its so peaceful and effortless. I tend to sing simran and do meditation on the body in formal sittings, so it's usually the latter, where my body is super relaxed and I can feel all of it.
Then a couple years later, I started having dreams where I would go into a meditation inside the dream and my dhyan would be fixated while I was still dreaming.
Then recently, I found myself waking up in the middle of the night and there was just blackness and this really loud horn, almost machine-like sound ZUUURRRRRR. Very strange. I found myself in a state of dhyan and slowly coming out of it. I noticed that my breath was completely out of whack. I was trying to breathe to keep it going and in doing so I lost the state.

Thanks for sharing your experience lucky veer ji. Such experiences of others which wont be found in any katha, book or online helps in reaffirming the faith in this Sikhi for me. It really feels good to know about such things. Indirectly, you help in reaffirming my faith. So thanks for that. And above all thanks to Guru Ji :)Unfortunately, I have nothing to share in spiritual terms. I have collected such filth from previous and this lifetime that I am unable to see the other dimension. Even though I have had no spiritual experience, I am glad that Guru Ji has given me the opportunity and Sumat to see whats wrong whats right and what path to follow. So hopefully Guru Ji does kirpa on this keera soon and bless with more naam and baani.

Welcome ChazS1ngh !

You are right, it really pushes your inner ego to the limits at times.
I have to constantly remind myself that it is ALL him and his kirpa.

All I ever pray and ask for is that LOVE keep getting enshrined and stronger. I beg that I don't accidentally let a veil come over that connection.
We all know just how easy that is in the world we live in.

I hope you inspire and get inspired on this forum.
Many members have influenced and motivated each other in many aspects. I think there is material and information on here that you will not find anywhere else or that no person, institution or gurudwara would ever have told you.
Most of it is confirmed and acknowledged in some sort of practical approach or experience, and I don't know anywhere else where these kind of contributions exist.

From another thread, not so long ago.....in reference to a translation from a video.



Lately, because it's so hot.. we have the overhead fans on in every room about 18 hrs/day !
I have repeatedly gone from room to room and I can feel the 'waheguru' jap coming from the fan in complete sync with body rom rom !
The crazy thing is that for a few days I was just walking around room to room and changing the speeds on the fans to see if my rom rom reaction still stayed in sync.... and it would do so immediately !
Again, I was getting a little concerned because I thought that I have developed some 'oversensitivity' problem..!
I have been constantly telling myself that it's not rom rom and that i have messed up my own brain wires of sensory stimulation somewhere.
So, i was quite relieved when I heard this video the other day and then re-reading Sat's translation convinced me that I heard it correctly the first time.

Just a few days ago, I was even telling my wife and asking her if she could feel it ....I was asking her to really try hard to see if she could pick it up..... but she just gave me a weird look thinking that I'm losing the plot !

I can even feel it coming from the pump in the fish tank... but I never told her that bit !!


In addition to this, I must say that there are days when I can feel the jap in every continuous sort of vibration that I pick up.
Whether it's an overhead fan, the birds, waves on the beach or in the car.... what happens is that as soon as my mind says 'waheguru', then the navel area vibration starts immediately and in sync with whatever vibration there may be.
A few weeks ago, we were at the aquarium and it even happened with the dolphin sounds !

I do have to check and confirm with a gurmukh that ''I'm all there!" on this account and if others experience it as well.
Because I know Bhai Sewa Singh ji mentions it in the video but I don't think he says anything about the navel, nadis or chakras vibrating.

The vibration and internal jap also starts whenever or wherever there is 'Waheguru' jap and it begins at the navel and if I follow it, I can feel it going all the way up from there to my head and in smaller nadis in arms and hands.
Recently in this heat, I have been having a little nap during the day and I will put this waheguru jap CD on that goes up in various increasing tempo. After starting rom rom, within a few minutes I often doze off for 20-25 minutes or so.

The other day I was having one of these little naps with the jap playing and as it was so hot, my shirt buttons were open as I lay on the bed and you could see my stomach quite clearly...
During a stage when I was deeply dozed off, my wife came into the room and saw that my navel was pulsating up and down with the jap and separate from my breathing altogether !!
She later told me that she stood there and was amazed because it was going at the exact frequency and in sync with the jap on the CD.
She said she confirmed that I was very deep asleep and decided to not disturb me or switch the stereo off, and just let me be.
We both could not believe that this rom rom was in full swing whilst I was fast asleep !!


It's funny because I've been trying to explain it to her for a while and have kept asking if she feels any sort of thing and I know she's thought I'm being very strange. But after that incident, she understands the whole issue a lot better.

It made me realise just how simran can literally happen whilst asleep as gurbani mentions.
ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਸੋਵਤ ਧਿਆਈਐ ॥
Ūṯẖaṯ baiṯẖaṯ sovaṯ ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai.
While standing up, and sitting down, and even while asleep, meditate on the Lord

Thank you ji for the kind words...

The one thing that i have learned is that I (ego) am not capable of anything...the most profound and immensely powerful experiences i've had have occured spontaneously and through no control of myself...i have literally had to surrender to it...

but then a few days later the Ego mind starts ticking again trying to put logic and method to what occured..."oh it happened because you were sat in a certain way, or were putting your attention in a particular place, or foccused on a particular sound"...and then my next amrit vela simran is thwarted with these thoughts "try this, try that, can i hear this, can i see that"...and then i feel so far away again

All is Him, I am nothing and am not capable of doing anything...

the only thing that i bring to the table is Gurmanter, an often aching heart and a thirsty soul...

I think so because thats one of the reason - guru maharaj wrote revolutionary matrix/metaphysics/spiritual gnosis/feeling in gurbani - bara maha composition right?

I will just add the translations to this beautiful shabad for us with not so good gurmukhi skills.
soohee mehlaa 5.
Soohee, Fifth Mehl:

darsan daykh jeevaa gur tayraa.
Gazing upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan, I live.

pooran karam ho-ay parabh mayraa. ||1||
My karma is perfect, O my God. ||1||

ih baynantee sun parabh mayray.
Please, listen to this prayer, O my God.

deh naam kar apnay chayray. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Please bless me with Your Name, and make me Your chaylaa, Your disciple. ||1||Pause||

apnee saran raakh parabh daatay.
Please keep me under Your Protection, O God, O Great Giver.

gur parsaad kinai virlai jaatay. ||2||
By Guru's Grace, a few people understand this. ||2||

sunhu bin-o parabh mayray meetaa.
Please hear my prayer, O God, my Friend.

charan kamal vaseh mayrai cheetaa. ||3||
May Your Lotus Feet abide within my consciousness. ||3||

naanak ayk karai ardaas.
Nanak makes one prayer:

visar naahee pooran guntaas. ||4||18||24||
may I never forget You, O perfect treasure of virtue. ||4||18||24||

The Anand sahib and especially the 6 pauri version, seems to always lift me to another level

The sun gazing reminds me about something. I lived on a carribbean island for 2 years. So watching the sunset was often a beautiful experience. I would go out for a walk , find a rock to sit on, and coordinate my rehraas sahib with the sung going down. It was beautiful experience when I think about it. The beauty of the sky, the sun, chirping of birds and moist air added to the experience. And I loved the symbolism of the sunset too.

I tried to meditate with the waves of ocean, the sounds and wavy nature. But that often gave me nausea , sea sickness, so didnt have much success with that.

Another element that I used at some points was the full moon. I imagined my body receiving the moonrays at night, cooling experience. Witnessing a moonrise/moonset in ocean is a beautiful element in itself. Also, the full moon reminds me of Poranmashi, the avtar of Guru Nanak Ji.

Its amazing when we can use elements of nature into our practice.

It truly is about the asana of mind

Gur Ka Sabad Manhe Asthamban
GurSabad is like pillars for the mind, stabilizes it and supports.

my two cents on this subject..

i feel i have had many OBE's...not a single one when meditating during the Day..... always at amrit Vela...
my first one actually occured on the very first day i did Amrit Vela (before then i meditated during the day)

unlike others i dont think i have wondered around, and seen my own body etc etc...i have always been pulled to 'somewhere else' sometimes by the sound of a loud bell.

my advice..and this is only my opinion...
I have never wanted nor do i still want an OBE...i don;t seek it, nor do i ask for one...
i go into mediaition with Gurmanter with sole aim of feeling at one with Waheguru...whatever happens/doesnt happen..is fine by me...just surrender to the all pervading power that is

everything that needs to occur, that will occur or will happen, will manifest on its own accord...

otherwise in my opinion one can get dragged into just shifting desires, ego, wants, needs, attention from this world to another...and we can easily lose track of our objectives...

but this is just me opinion

google Astral Sex, and you'll find forums of hundreds of people trying to induce Astral travel for the sole aim of having sex in a different realm/world...talk about just taking your problems with you!


Hi Satkirin, Lucky ji....good to see you on this Forum

i also agree with Satkirin, i don't think we/consciousness leave anywhere...i think we are also just shifting awareness to a different point...like having a sheet of paper with several holes in it...and just peeping through a different hole...