Guest Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 One of my divine close friend just got back from 3ho sikh asharam in America. He was told by many elder 3ho sikhs there, that punjabi raagis especially tabla players have been exploiting 3HO sikh women for years now that elder 3ho sikhs are warning the young generation and middle generation 3ho to be very vigilant surrounding punjabi raagis. Some of punjabi raagis would take advantage of the fact that they have kirtan skills and would exploit 3ho sikh women who have urge to learn kirtan, talked them into relationships while kirtanis have family back home. This thread is dedicated to 3ho sikh women and men alike to come forward and share their experience....i don't have any names so i m not naming and shaming any raagis as it should be done through following proper protocols - reporting to Sri Akaal Takth Sahib and if cases by cases are severe, this should be directed towards legal authorities. I personally cannot validate 3ho sikh women claims but i m not pleasantly surprised by this behavior of apne punjabi parasites who took amrit just to "fit in" or just to make "easy money" and have fame and popularity going after especially white sikh woman as i just got back from india where loads of men will stare at white woman in perverted manner. But I am surprised at these women who were exploited well integrated into western society, know their rights very well failed to name and shame these individuals and failed to report this Sri Akaal Takth Sahib or legal authorities. I hope some of 3ho sikh men or women who live in states and can share their experience or their observations on this disturbing trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) There a growing trend in the UK punjabi raagis commiting pedophile, there maybe even more shameful things that do not service up due to honour reasons, even other relations with women of sangat it is the effect of not having wife here. Why don't people give jutiya. Edited March 18, 2011 by sarbatdapala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parchand Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) when "raagis" or even "granthis" commit such acts then local police must be consulted and evidence submitted. evidence must also be laid before local Sangat so that GuruGhar committee can take action against them. there has been many situations where "granthis" have been ousted by Committees without considering correct legal protocol which has led to tribunals taken by these shameless "granthis" against Gurughars. hence its very important to consider criminal/labour laws when dealing with these people and use "name & shame" method and much stronger sajhaa if the evidence is compelling. even immigration law should be considered - whether to support visa or permanent stay applications. GuruGhar sewadars should be more careful in vetting these people and monitor their behaviour around females. we must also create climate where women feel it is ok to discuss such issues privately with community members or indeed in public rather than this honour/izzat mentality. Edited March 19, 2011 by Parchand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) What I don't get is why we appear to be the only community who still has to 'import' raagi, giani types from backhome. Why don't we have indigenously raised ones? Hang on, I know the answer. Because we are cheap and pay them poorly and prefer our kids going uni and getting nice status giving money making jobs. Besides, even this wouldn't guarantee sexual activity not taking place. Edited March 18, 2011 by dalsingh101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) No offence Neo but can you substantiate the allegations or are you just believing rumours because they concern Raagis and you are prepared to believe the worst of Raagis? I am not doubting that some or all the allegations might be true but posting here when you have no real evidence is just giving the community a bad name without actually achieving anything. My suggestion to you would be to work with Gurmustak Singh of Sikhnet, as you said the elder 3HO Sikhs are aware of the problem. I am sure they have better means to contact and invite those who have been abused to come forward than a post on this site. As for Raagis I know that many apnay who want to get out of Punjab join these jathay. These jathay then get invited to do Kirtan aboard. Unfortunately it is a catch 22 situation. Unless the Gurdwara committees are reformed and the backhanders for getting visa applications endorsed ended then these kind of abuses will continue. Edited March 19, 2011 by tonyhp32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I agree with Tony.I don't think White women are some kind of oppressed women who will not report these type of incidents.It is not like they are living in some Indian Family structure and there Izzat will go down if they will report.If the above report is true then one will need to scrutinise both sides Punjabi raagi's and white 3HO women's role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) No offence Neo but can you substantiate the allegations or are you just believing rumours because they concern Raagis and you are prepared to believe the worst of Raagis? I am not doubting that some or all the allegations might be true but posting here when you have no real evidence is just giving the community a bad name without actually achieving anything. My suggestion to you would be to work with Gurmustak Singh of Sikhnet, as you said the elder 3HO Sikhs are aware of the problem. I am sure they have better means to contact and invite those who have been abused to come forward than a post on this site. As for Raagis I know that many apnay who want to get out of Punjab join these jathay. These jathay then get invited to do Kirtan aboard. Unfortunately it is a catch 22 situation. Unless the Gurdwara committees are reformed and the backhanders for getting visa applications endorsed ended then these kind of abuses will continue. Probably Tony's pendu cousins and uncles type of thing. That's why he's gone into 'denial mode' so quickly. lol That being said, certain white girls need to stop acting so naive and attention seeking. Edited March 19, 2011 by dalsingh101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 No offence Neo but can you substantiate the allegations This is a serious issue, and proof is very important. 'Sarbatdapala' do you have any proof of your allegations against Ragis in the UK. There has been one case, hardly a trend. Even one is cause for concern, but most Ragis I've met are good, decent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) I've known of one case where a visiting ragi tried it on with a girl in a Gravesend Gurdwara a few years ago. The girls dad sorted it out. Coincidentally (or not) the guy was the tabla player too. Edited March 19, 2011 by dalsingh101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Some of you people with your shocked 'clutching handbag to the chest' reactions make me laugh. Edited March 19, 2011 by dalsingh101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) I know of one Granthi who sexually molested a girl in B.C. area during the 90s. Later on he wrote some books and became famous. His name is Gurbaksh Singh KalaAfghana. It is sad that so many people from all over now follow this sexual abuser who now only see's dirt in Sri Dasam Granth. Here is the entire report about this case: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/45213-sexual-assault-court-case-report-kala-afghana-v-bhullar/ As for the Ragis sexually abusing white women. We should not believe it blindly. It is unsubstantiated and sounds more like Gup Shap at best. Maybe one or two women may have been abused, but I don't think it is a general trend. Whenever Ragis come to Gurdwaras near me, I usually invite them to my house and become friendly with them. I have found that in general Ragis are good people. To generalize against the entire Ragi community is like how some generalize against all Sants just because there have been one or two bad examples like Pehowala or Chicagowala. White women are not like Asian women who will remain quiet if they were victims of a sexual assault, and neither is the 3ho community as tightly knit as the Amish community that such voices could not be heard. Look at the examples of the Catholic church or the Hare Krishna community, did victims remain quiet in those religious groups? NO! victims belonging to the white community usually always speak up and get heard by the authorities if such cases do occur. Edited March 19, 2011 by Mithar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 It's funny how gup shup is treated as fact amongst some of the naive members here. I suppose some freshies told Dalsingh about the problem and now he's on his high horse campaigning against Raagis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 No Tony, it's probably just you trying to cover up the latest manifestation of the jatt rapist instinct. lol The lengths some people go to try and get laid..... Anyway, please try and keep me out of your conversations from now on, you horrible horrible pendu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 But I am surprised at these women who were exploited well integrated into western society, know their rights very well failed to name and shame these individuals and failed to report this Sri Akaal Takth Sahib or legal authorities. Neo Bhaji, doesnt that tell you something about this whole story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Well that's the reason i posted this thread for them to come fwd and share their experience if any. We will have this thread open for next 10 days or so and then close it out. I figure atleast we as sikh community as whole give them platform to share their experiences instead of making them feel alienated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Lol are there even any female members on this board?? This is a mans club!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Well that's the reason i posted this thread for them to come fwd and share their experience if any. We will have this thread open for next 10 days or so and then close it out. I figure atleast we as sikh community as whole give them platform to share their experiences instead of making them feel alienated. N30 singh ji I think you should post this topic on a 3HO facebook group or post a link of Sikhawareness and invite them here to share their experiance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 As someone from a legal background, at the risk of being accused of (nonexistent) sexism or nonexistent bias, i'd like to add that every person has a right to face their accuser. Even when the accusation is as serious as sexual abuse. Such problems exist in every community to some extent b/c of human nature. And when discovered should be vigourously investigated and prosecuted. But at this point there seems to be little evidence that the problem is more widespread in our community than it is in other communities. Castism we have too much of, that you can legitimately call a trend, b/c there's evidence of that. but I have seen no evidence of sexual abuse spread to a greater degree than there is in other communities. That it exists to some extent, there can be no doubt (just like in all human communities), but lets not over-inflate the problem. The real problem is more likely not enough proper investigation and action in some cases, although we do see that in others. When there is enough evidence of calling it a trend then lets call it that,no point in jumping the gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kaur Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 N30 Singh, have you posted it on Sikhnet's discussion forum? http://www.sikhnet.com/discussion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 No i haven't as i have forgotten my password. Can someone fwd this topic link to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 If you are going to link it to Sikhnet, I think you should rename it to: Are 3ho Sikhs being exploited by raagis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Lol are there even any female members on this board?? This is a mans club!! ......as in gentlemens clubs???? ......the ones that flourish in every uk town and city????? mmmmm ....or have got the wrong end of the soti here??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) N30 Singh, have you posted it on Sikhnet's discussion forum? http://www.sikhnet.com/discussion/ No offence but posting what could be a baseless rumour on an open discussion forum especially one which a lot of non-Sikhs interested in Sikhism utilise is the height of idiocy. Why not go the whole hog and contact the newspapers especially Kim Bolan just on the off chance that a victim might read the article! Neo would be better advised to contact the Sikhnet admin and work with them. Just an observation but our community seems to be more ready than most to post unsubstantiated allegations online than any other. Any bad personal experience someone has is automatically projected as the norm in the community. If some turbanned guy can't get a date, he then posts 'Sikh girls hate turbanned guys' on some forum! - mod edited - Edited March 23, 2011 by Xylitol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) So, where's the evidence? Or is prurient speculation enough proof for some Sikhs to think the worst of their brothers? K. Edited March 23, 2011 by Kaljug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 to certain posters: please be more civil. no more off topic back and forth sniping on caste please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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