Trimandeep Singh

I was saying that in light of Gurbani. In terms of word ritual used, it's implied meaning is often, if not always, empty rituals and symbolisms.
Leave that. Still my point is that when Devi devte themselves don't have any access to Vaheguru, then how can they help us communicate with him? We are insulting guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of Vaheguru any time we want.
One shouldn't ask for ridhi sidhis. Even if you want to help people, just do an ardaas and we all know that Vaheguru always keeps the laaj of his gursikhs. 
When people say that this sant did a miracle or something, then we should correct them and tell that it is Vaheguru who is keeping the laaj of his gursikhs. The sants never use the Ridhi sidhis they obtain, unless to fulfill any hukam of guru sahib.
Gurbani clearly states that one should not focus on ridhi sidhis nor use them for selfish purposes because they keep you away from path of Vaheguru.
Trimandeep Singh 

I'll soon post a link of a thread from Gurmat Bibek forum on this pankti. That would clear your doubts. I just need to find it.
Edit: Here it is. Vichar is supported by writings of Bhai Sahib Vir Singh Ji.
https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,33059,33068#msg-33068
Guru sahib kirpa karan
Trimandeep Singh 

Well every Sikh or even jot vigasi gursikhs can fall prey to the 5 vices. But I firmly believe that Baba Banda Singh gave shaheedi as a pure rehitvaan naam Abhiyaasi Sikh. He may have done all those things that you have mentioned but still, he can't give shaheedi like that if we was a self proclaimed guru. 
I believe that some of these saakhis might not be accurate accounts because even in Sant Ji times, the govt tried to manipulate the Sikh sangat into thinking that he was a terrorist. Same would have happened with baba ji.
Well this is my opinion only. If we have different opinions about him, it's fine. All the play of Maya.
Trimandeep Singh 

Do you even know what you said? Amrit Sanchaars, Akhand Paaths and Sehaj Paaths are always for a purpose and above the Sato Gun. All these rituals like havan (acc to me) and all are within the three gunns. Sikh Maryada has been passed by the Gurus and can't be called mere rituals. (Don't want to talk about Havan, but overall all practices started by gurus are above three gunns)
Is he lazy that he can't do Paath and do praises of Vaheguru? If someone does Paath for us, then it will surely benefit but isn't it wrong that he expects us to do Paath for him?! Moreover, you are contradicting your own point. You said earlier that we need to do havan so that Agni Devta communicates our message to Vaheguru Ji.
But what help are you asking them for? Though the panth is always there for us to help, but under any circumstances we can ask non Sikhs for help, but those are small favours, not 'communicating our message to Vaheguru'. 
And when did I write anything that supports worship of Devi devte?
They may help us but you are asking us to do havan, read Paath and ask the Devte to communicate our message to Vaheguru which is an insult to Guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of him anytime.
They are a creation of Vaheguru, exactly my point! They themselves don't have direct access to Vaheguru then how can they even communicate our message to him? They are not mukt and they long for this human body, as bani clearly states. We are at a better position from them to get mukt and have darshan of Vaheguru.
Do you know even Devi Lakshmi sweeps the floor at Sri Darbar Sahib? And yes, if we ever get a chance to serve the devte, then surely we will serve them some roti, yellow dal and my fav kheer... And also polish their sandals or footwear, whatever they wear... Lol
I think that avastha does play a role but it also depends on your faith. I have no avastha but I am 100% sure that if I ask something (in line with Gurmat) to Vaheguru Ji with good intentions and true heart, I will surely get it. Ardaas is also a form of communication with Vaheguru, in fact, DIRECT communication with him.
And about those sava Lakh japs, I think your Prahlabdh karams also play a role in this. There have been people who experienced Jot vigasi avastha even before taking Amrit! So, it doesn't necessarily depend on your current avastha, but your karams too. 
Brahmgyanis like Baba Nand Singh Ji or Bhai Saab would never do japs to obtain any Ridhi sidhi. Sikhs always yearn for the darshan of Vaheguru rather than doing specific japs to obtain a Ridhi sidhi. They are just a by product of one's bhagti and a Sikh should NEVER do Paath to obtain specific ridhis sidhis.
I am not saying that Sukha and jhatka are wrong, but if they were, Guru sahib would still have never allowed them to consume it, even if they follow the toughest lifestyle. Wrong is wrong and can't be justified if you do more Paath, but it may be neglected if you are sorry for it. 
 
I thought Dasam bani satisfied the hunger of shastars rather than making them hungrier. But I may be wrong, please try to find a pankti related to this.

Well every Sikh or even jot vigasi gursikhs can fall prey to the 5 vices. But I firmly believe that Baba Banda Singh gave shaheedi as a pure rehitvaan naam Abhiyaasi Sikh. He may have done all those things that you have mentioned but still, he can't give shaheedi like that if we was a self proclaimed guru. 
I believe that some of these saakhis might not be accurate accounts because even in Sant Ji times, the govt tried to manipulate the Sikh sangat into thinking that he was a terrorist. Same would have happened with baba ji.
Well this is my opinion only. If we have different opinions about him, it's fine. All the play of Maya.
Trimandeep Singh 

Well every Sikh or even jot vigasi gursikhs can fall prey to the 5 vices. But I firmly believe that Baba Banda Singh gave shaheedi as a pure rehitvaan naam Abhiyaasi Sikh. He may have done all those things that you have mentioned but still, he can't give shaheedi like that if we was a self proclaimed guru. 
I believe that some of these saakhis might not be accurate accounts because even in Sant Ji times, the govt tried to manipulate the Sikh sangat into thinking that he was a terrorist. Same would have happened with baba ji.
Well this is my opinion only. If we have different opinions about him, it's fine. All the play of Maya.
Trimandeep Singh 

Saints of different dharms including Sikh dharm consider it to be a huge paap. So the answer is no. People who answer yes are thinking with their sense-pleasure seeking mind rather than any spiritual understanding or desire for knowing truth. 

I bet a Nihang Singh's dumalla can't come off. They are the most tyar-bar-tyar of all. 
Also, patka should be discouraged because it was not given to us by Guru sahib and it leads to beadbi of kes. I have myself experienced this. When you try a knot behind, the hairs come in between the strips (taniyaan whatever you say lol) and when you remove your patka, the hairs are too removed. Daas tied a patka till 15 years but then with guru sahib's kirpa, switched to a Keski and a dumalla.
I completely agree with you. But AKJ doesn't enforce this on the entire Panth. They mention Keski a kakaar only in their Amrit Sanchaar Smaagams.
Most of the AKJ singhs have no problem if someone considers Kesh as kakaar because they believe that still, Keski is mandatory for a Sikh so if they are still wearing a keski all the time, then there's no violation of Rehat.
Surely Gurmat Bibek should also have explained the Sangat that Kesh is considered a kakaar by majority of Panth and then they should have stated their point of view that why they consider Keski and not Kes as a kakaar.
And FYI, I have seen some videos of Nihangs talking about the keski Rehat. They say that even though Kesh is a kakaar but still a Khalsa should always tie a dumalla on a Keski. For them, Keski is mandatory and same is the case with Taksal.
Now I don't know that according to you, it will be a recommendation or an enforcement but yes, if you follow them, then you should always support a Keski and not modern day patka.
Trimandeep Singh 

I don't need to hide my inability to answer that question. Puratan AKJ singhs probably follow this but not Singhs abroad.  
Also, I had cleared this point before.
Taksaal too claims of having the most authentic Rehat sources and same is with the Nihangs, yet they have minor disputes. 
You are going so much into differences which either creates a negative impression of yours or the jathebandi. 
You should have a problem with AKJ if they don't respect the opinions of other jathebandis and label them as qurehtia. They practice their Rehat (which is accepted in the Panth) within their own smagams and for your information, other jathebandis have been involved in this stuff of defaming other jathebandis.
Few years back, the Jagowale were spreading a serious anti-AKJ propaganda on Social media when they did bhog of a Samagam at Mundawni despite knowing that it is optional to do bhog at Ragmaala. So who's doing all this stuff? 
I am not at all anti-Jagowaala but your opinions on other jathebandis are surely not cooperative. 
Some practices of the Nihangs are not followed by Taksaal because they think it is Manmat but they keep it within their own jatha and refrain from touching these topics to maintain their pyaar and satkaar for other sampradas. All these differences in Rehat and interpretations is a khed of Vaheguru and only he knows how this will benefit the Panth.
We all should have this attitude of Taksaal than trying our best to find faults in someone else's Rehat.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

Yeah I was also thinking this. But still I wouldn't have been surprised if it was Nanaksar waale Mahapurakh only.

Most probably, he would have said that like the Nirankari, Baba Banda Singh Ji too did some deeds like this but this doesn't mean that he remained like that till his last breath. And I request you to give him some respect, please! 
1. He was chosen by Dashmesh Pita to lead the panth.
2. After Khalsa Raj came, he didn't become a political leader or a king but went to the hills to do bhagti. He had absolutely no attachments.
3. If Baba ji would have done something like that, how can he give a shahaadat like that? You do know that his son's heart was put into his mouth. This torture was out of this world. If he was a patit/tankhaiya, how can he give a Mahaan shahaadat like this?!
Stop falling to social media propaganda.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

What are you saying Bhai sahib? 
You were saying Havan includes offering to Agni Devta who already is a devta and has all the luxuries. Why does he need our offering? 
And you are just using the word 'offer' in a sentence to prove your point.
Gurbani always teaches us to help the needy and donating something or taking help from anyone doesn't increase or decrease our level/status, Vaheguru himself puts a furna in our minds to donate to a needy or whatsoever.
True Sikhs, they donate or take, will always think of themselves as charan dhoor of everyone else.
Yes, the Granth is not at all advocating worship of Agni Devta but my point is why do we even need to offer him to communicate our 'message' to Vaheguru when Vaheguru is always with us. 
Will you talk to Agni Devta or the sargun roop of Akaal Purakh himself (Sri Guru Granth Sahib)?
Trimandeep Singh 

I don't think guru sahib gave some additional/different Rehat to different sampradas. 
If guru sahib ordered the Taksaal to read shudh bani and do abhyaas regularly, it was for Nihangs too. If guru sahib ordered Nihangs to practice shastar Vidya regularly,then it's hukam for Taksaal, Nirmale and Nanaksar too.
Every Sikh needs to become a Nihang.
I think you understand me and my opinions better now so let's just leave this.
Trimandeep Singh

I don't want to comment on that. I'll never drink it but my respect for Nihang Singhs has always remained the same. I respect the opinions of those who drink Sukha. 
You are comparing Jhatka to Alcohol? 
Why would a Sikh offer to Agni Devta??? Let me remind of your status... A Sikh who follows Rehat and does naam jap is higher than the Devte. All Brahmgyanis are higher than the devte.
I'll just tell you a real story not going into much details. You would probably have heard that Indra Devta is very insecure towards his throne, fearing he would lose his position. Gurmukhs say that when Sikhs do naam abhyaas, his throne shakes. Once Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji was doing naam jap with other jatha gurmukhs and they got a vision of Indra Devta scared and insecure seeing his throne shaking. They then told him that they were not after his throne so rest assured.
This tells us that gurmukhs are higher than any of the devte. We don't need to offer something to Agni Devta when we can communicate directly with the Sargun Saroop of Akal Purakh.
Trimandeep Singh 

What is the authenticity of this Granth? Also, how can we even believe this? Using alcohol??? Dashmesh Pita has clearly said in Rehtanamey to NEVER ever even go near intoxicants. And here's offering alcohol while reading bani?! Waah! No Guru fearing Sikh will ever do this.
Trimandeep Singh 

Seriously who has the right to Alter bani? 
By saying Guru Angad Dev Ji altered original version of Japji sahib, whosoever said this is committing a great sin.
Poore ka kiya sab kichh poora Ghatt Vadh Kichh nahe 
[The works and creation of the Perfect one are all perfect like him]
This is just a manmati story by a manmat banda.
And this story is so illogical and perhaps, I thank GurU Gobind Singh Ji who did a karamaat on Vaisakhi 1699.
You say that Guru Angad Dev Ji altered the pauri so that no-one else can do the karamaat of making the dead alive done by reading that pauri. 
On Vaisakhi 1699 Guru Gobind Singh Ji cut off the heads of 5 devoted people and then recited 5 banis while stirring is khanda in a baata full of water and pataase. Then he sprinkled a few drops of that Amrit on the bodies of the dead men and put it in their mouth and they became alive! 
Guru Khalsa Panth knows that procedure and can still make a dead person alive with that amrit provided that there are Rehitvaan Naam Rasiye Gurmukhs in Panj Pyaare.
Bhul chuk maaf 
Trimandeep Singh 

What are you saying Bhai sahib? 
You were saying Havan includes offering to Agni Devta who already is a devta and has all the luxuries. Why does he need our offering? 
And you are just using the word 'offer' in a sentence to prove your point.
Gurbani always teaches us to help the needy and donating something or taking help from anyone doesn't increase or decrease our level/status, Vaheguru himself puts a furna in our minds to donate to a needy or whatsoever.
True Sikhs, they donate or take, will always think of themselves as charan dhoor of everyone else.
Yes, the Granth is not at all advocating worship of Agni Devta but my point is why do we even need to offer him to communicate our 'message' to Vaheguru when Vaheguru is always with us. 
Will you talk to Agni Devta or the sargun roop of Akaal Purakh himself (Sri Guru Granth Sahib)?
Trimandeep Singh 

I don't think guru sahib gave some additional/different Rehat to different sampradas. 
If guru sahib ordered the Taksaal to read shudh bani and do abhyaas regularly, it was for Nihangs too. If guru sahib ordered Nihangs to practice shastar Vidya regularly,then it's hukam for Taksaal, Nirmale and Nanaksar too.
Every Sikh needs to become a Nihang.
I think you understand me and my opinions better now so let's just leave this.
Trimandeep Singh

I don't want to comment on that. I'll never drink it but my respect for Nihang Singhs has always remained the same. I respect the opinions of those who drink Sukha. 
You are comparing Jhatka to Alcohol? 
Why would a Sikh offer to Agni Devta??? Let me remind of your status... A Sikh who follows Rehat and does naam jap is higher than the Devte. All Brahmgyanis are higher than the devte.
I'll just tell you a real story not going into much details. You would probably have heard that Indra Devta is very insecure towards his throne, fearing he would lose his position. Gurmukhs say that when Sikhs do naam abhyaas, his throne shakes. Once Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji was doing naam jap with other jatha gurmukhs and they got a vision of Indra Devta scared and insecure seeing his throne shaking. They then told him that they were not after his throne so rest assured.
This tells us that gurmukhs are higher than any of the devte. We don't need to offer something to Agni Devta when we can communicate directly with the Sargun Saroop of Akal Purakh.
Trimandeep Singh 

Most probably, he would have said that like the Nirankari, Baba Banda Singh Ji too did some deeds like this but this doesn't mean that he remained like that till his last breath. And I request you to give him some respect, please! 
1. He was chosen by Dashmesh Pita to lead the panth.
2. After Khalsa Raj came, he didn't become a political leader or a king but went to the hills to do bhagti. He had absolutely no attachments.
3. If Baba ji would have done something like that, how can he give a shahaadat like that? You do know that his son's heart was put into his mouth. This torture was out of this world. If he was a patit/tankhaiya, how can he give a Mahaan shahaadat like this?!
Stop falling to social media propaganda.
Bhul chuk maaf
Trimandeep Singh 

What is the authenticity of this Granth? Also, how can we even believe this? Using alcohol??? Dashmesh Pita has clearly said in Rehtanamey to NEVER ever even go near intoxicants. And here's offering alcohol while reading bani?! Waah! No Guru fearing Sikh will ever do this.
Trimandeep Singh 

It's useless for both of us to talk about someone else's Rehat.
And I am repeating this again a person should sincerely strive to follow all Rehat if not able to follow a hukam due to forced circumstances. This includes ardaas, doing sangat and doing more Paath to gain strength.
Trimandeep Singh 

You are saying that in a way that they are difficult (like Dietary Bibek) or are contradictory? 

I don't want to comment on that. I'll never drink it but my respect for Nihang Singhs has always remained the same. I respect the opinions of those who drink Sukha. 
You are comparing Jhatka to Alcohol? 
Why would a Sikh offer to Agni Devta??? Let me remind of your status... A Sikh who follows Rehat and does naam jap is higher than the Devte. All Brahmgyanis are higher than the devte.
I'll just tell you a real story not going into much details. You would probably have heard that Indra Devta is very insecure towards his throne, fearing he would lose his position. Gurmukhs say that when Sikhs do naam abhyaas, his throne shakes. Once Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji was doing naam jap with other jatha gurmukhs and they got a vision of Indra Devta scared and insecure seeing his throne shaking. They then told him that they were not after his throne so rest assured.
This tells us that gurmukhs are higher than any of the devte. We don't need to offer something to Agni Devta when we can communicate directly with the Sargun Saroop of Akal Purakh.
Trimandeep Singh 

I don't think guru sahib gave some additional/different Rehat to different sampradas. 
If guru sahib ordered the Taksaal to read shudh bani and do abhyaas regularly, it was for Nihangs too. If guru sahib ordered Nihangs to practice shastar Vidya regularly,then it's hukam for Taksaal, Nirmale and Nanaksar too.
Every Sikh needs to become a Nihang.
I think you understand me and my opinions better now so let's just leave this.
Trimandeep Singh