Lucky

oooh balle balle !!! :)
come on kiddo....listen...this is like saying  "you can go and pay a visit to whore and make enquiries -(gurmat)...but if you agree to become a client for her services then 'that's not gurmat'
 
I'm not sure you understand  that astrology is within ''limitations''...whereas gurmat and sikhi is outside of any boxes of confining dogmas or limits.
 

Some people might claim that Nanaksar promotes idol worship, but one needs to understand that it is not very easy to start focusing on the Shabad, especially when one is a beginner in the field of spirituality. Images do assist a person during meditation.
Scientifically speaking, humans are vision dominant.
 
Quote
Neurophysiologically, humans are sight (visual sense) dominant. Thirty to forty percent of our cerebral cortex is devoted to vision, as compared to 8 percent for touch or just 3 percent for hearing (auditory sense).
Unquote[1]
[1] - http://biologicalexceptions.blogspot.ca/2011/09/why-does-your-telephone-have-two-holes.html
 
When a person gradually move up the spiritual ladder, the need for images will decrease, as one will be able to focus on the Naad (sound of the Shabad).
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Above image is indescribably special and way.., way,... way.. more than a murat image. 

People say our mind does not get still. Keep the image of Guru Nanak in your Dhyana mind will not wander.
People look up. Look straight ahead and hug guru Nanak. 
-Bachan Baba Ishar Singh ji Kaleran
 

However, remember Garud Purana does not apply to Sikhs.
Sikhs who are nitnemi & naam abhyassi, usually take a shortcut to SAckhand, they dont have to go through the route that normal people go through.
Read Entire Gurbani.... dont just focus on female portions lol.

These things like other realms, other destinations are very real, I dont know how to explain them. I have never been to Hell. lol
Its not black and white , heaven & hell, its just different forms of existence beyond this physical,
Gurbani supports the evidence of Hell, Punishment, Angels of Death or Devs who take away the soul etc.  You should learn more about it.
Looks like you have not been reading Gurbani.  Start off with SukhmaniSahib , you will learn a lot.
And look up english translation of Garud Puran online.

they are not Abrahamic concepts, but they are misinterpreted and not understood.   A 'hell' is not a permanent realm, but a place where lesser evolved or misdirected souls have to go to learn.  As for heaven,..there are many heavens and these too are not final destinations.    It's wrong to label such and such as some concept and throw them at other faiths or call them Abrahamic.

they are not Abrahamic concepts, but they are misinterpreted and not understood.   A 'hell' is not a permanent realm, but a place where lesser evolved or misdirected souls have to go to learn.  As for heaven,..there are many heavens and these too are not final destinations.    It's wrong to label such and such as some concept and throw them at other faiths or call them Abrahamic.

np,  Gur-mat is using guru's mat as per gurbani, compared to man-mat, which is mind's mat(wisdom). What you are pointing towards is a different topic from this, and it's about difference between krodh and bir-ras. The 10th master fought against oppression and righteous truth. This is done with love and not anger. Gur-mat is completely free of mind's 5 dhuts and no ego comes into play as in Bhai kanaya ji event in battlefield of seeing satguru within everyone. The 10th master bir ras approach is practiced with it's roots in spirituality. In the example you gave, there is no slapping back as per gurmat. But at our level and in this day and age, you would say "waheguru" and talk to the offender to calm their krodh instead. Bring the other's krodh down instead of mirroring their actions!  If you are spending more hours per day doing internal waheguru sift salah, then you will automatically be conducting yourself in sehaj. In sehaj, it is very difficult for someone to invoke krodh in you.

Very good!
I totally agree that they are spiritual for self journey. But they can also be 'experienced'  in terms of your own consciousness, as to the stages that it has to ascend i it's spiritual transformation.
Funny thing is that over the years, I've done a few little self interpretations here and there that are mostly a little botched, and un-sequenced,... because I've probably taken a little bit from here and there with all the different variations that exist in sikhi world!  ...However, nowadays,... I see it a little more clearly and actually realise that all the information and facts you will ever need were mostly right there in the pauris from 34 beginning with "Rati ruti tithi var" .
DHARAM Khand, like Gurpreet says, is the 1st stage of realisation or as I would describe ->the Path of DHARAM.
Guru Nanak ji tells us,.. that we are on earth, which is itself a DHARMSAAL.     DHARAMSAAL is described as what I understand, an old "inn" or meeting place/place of rest/ some en route location. ..etc,,     This means that we ALL start here or end up here, no matter what dharam. A single Dharam is required as the path to the top of the mountain. If we imagine all the different dharams as individual paths to the top, and we can only walk on one single one all the way according to where and what situation/place we are in.   DHARAMSAAL, in it stopover sense, shows that, we/manukhs, are all here in the Dharamsaal according to our KARAMS and our binding to the Lak chaurasi joon cycle. It becomes apparent from gurbani later on, that we are all in the same lakh chaurasi cycle, and have this one-off opportunity to take DHARAM.
I may be wrong, but I understand, that as our first steps and reason for ending up in this joon; is to work on BOTH our KARAM and DHARAM. (not to confuse the 'karams' here with KARAMKHAND later on)
Overall, in these 5 khand pauris, Guruji has explained the route or journey to -->> SACHKHAND, and to which we can transform our consciousness into 'permanently'.  Sachkhand is actually existing here and everywhere because ''Sackhand vasai Nirankar'' and Nirankar is himself the creator and in the creation (remember- Farida Khalak Khalk Meh Khalk Vasay Rab Maahe "The Creator God Is In The Creation, And The Creation Abides In God" ).. He is the All-pervading, all-knowing, right here, right now. So Sachkhand is not some million miles away.
 
I can try explain in more depth and following the gurbani- tuks when I get more time......but in a nutshell,.... We start by taking path of DHARAM KHAND and working our KARAMS. Gurbani explains in many places after japji, that taking DHARAM and giving full devotion of self seva, self sacrificing Mat and haumai  to satguru.-->, can get you walking the mountain path in Hukam, as per gurmukh and being in 100% gurmat. This will start erasing all your karams one by one! .....  this is 1st DHARAMKHAND realm.
(Amerdeep ji  questioned of why khands are never mentioned again in bani?...and I would understand that all the bani that follows, expounds and opens up in depth of exactly how one is to transform their consciousness after taking birth on the Dharamsaal to get to Sachkhand).      Also, in another thread, I explained my understanding of the later jath pahara tirajh suniar/ Goldsmith verse as being a technique of helping you practice and realise yourself in this transforming process, by using technique of NAAM JAP. when one starts Dharam khand steps.
 
Second stage is GYAAN KHAND.  and this stage begins when Naad becomes manifest. (Gyan Khand meh gyan patchand, tithai NAAD binodh kod anand)...or should I say that Gyan begins at Naad. The gyaan is not just intuitive knowledge. But it is a continuous gyaan of increased awareness, consciousness expansion, ridd sidh- nau nidh and all the signals mentioned in prabh ka simran pauri of sukhmani sahib lets say... all the washing of dirt from mann, purification ,,gyaan to help power 5 dhuts   etc      Then is SARAM KHAND and KARAM KHAND, which are very close and describe the path/stage leading one up to "Sacha Darbar"  or the court of the lord. These are the heavens that are mentioned in many faiths and assumed to be final destinations,... but Guru Nanak Dev ji has given us the ultimate guide to beyond these angelic heavens and joys that sit outside the door of Waheguru's darbar. (I'm sure that heavens are not sachkhand). Saram Khand and Karam Khand  are described as being near impossible to depict or express,  but Dhan dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji sachey patshah has given the nishanees (insignias) with subtle hints in those pauris, so that they can be acknowledged and recognized to the seeker.
 

Very good!
I totally agree that they are spiritual for self journey. But they can also be 'experienced'  in terms of your own consciousness, as to the stages that it has to ascend i it's spiritual transformation.
Funny thing is that over the years, I've done a few little self interpretations here and there that are mostly a little botched, and un-sequenced,... because I've probably taken a little bit from here and there with all the different variations that exist in sikhi world!  ...However, nowadays,... I see it a little more clearly and actually realise that all the information and facts you will ever need were mostly right there in the pauris from 34 beginning with "Rati ruti tithi var" .
DHARAM Khand, like Gurpreet says, is the 1st stage of realisation or as I would describe ->the Path of DHARAM.
Guru Nanak ji tells us,.. that we are on earth, which is itself a DHARMSAAL.     DHARAMSAAL is described as what I understand, an old "inn" or meeting place/place of rest/ some en route location. ..etc,,     This means that we ALL start here or end up here, no matter what dharam. A single Dharam is required as the path to the top of the mountain. If we imagine all the different dharams as individual paths to the top, and we can only walk on one single one all the way according to where and what situation/place we are in.   DHARAMSAAL, in it stopover sense, shows that, we/manukhs, are all here in the Dharamsaal according to our KARAMS and our binding to the Lak chaurasi joon cycle. It becomes apparent from gurbani later on, that we are all in the same lakh chaurasi cycle, and have this one-off opportunity to take DHARAM.
I may be wrong, but I understand, that as our first steps and reason for ending up in this joon; is to work on BOTH our KARAM and DHARAM. (not to confuse the 'karams' here with KARAMKHAND later on)
Overall, in these 5 khand pauris, Guruji has explained the route or journey to -->> SACHKHAND, and to which we can transform our consciousness into 'permanently'.  Sachkhand is actually existing here and everywhere because ''Sackhand vasai Nirankar'' and Nirankar is himself the creator and in the creation (remember- Farida Khalak Khalk Meh Khalk Vasay Rab Maahe "The Creator God Is In The Creation, And The Creation Abides In God" ).. He is the All-pervading, all-knowing, right here, right now. So Sachkhand is not some million miles away.
 
I can try explain in more depth and following the gurbani- tuks when I get more time......but in a nutshell,.... We start by taking path of DHARAM KHAND and working our KARAMS. Gurbani explains in many places after japji, that taking DHARAM and giving full devotion of self seva, self sacrificing Mat and haumai  to satguru.-->, can get you walking the mountain path in Hukam, as per gurmukh and being in 100% gurmat. This will start erasing all your karams one by one! .....  this is 1st DHARAMKHAND realm.
(Amerdeep ji  questioned of why khands are never mentioned again in bani?...and I would understand that all the bani that follows, expounds and opens up in depth of exactly how one is to transform their consciousness after taking birth on the Dharamsaal to get to Sachkhand).      Also, in another thread, I explained my understanding of the later jath pahara tirajh suniar/ Goldsmith verse as being a technique of helping you practice and realise yourself in this transforming process, by using technique of NAAM JAP. when one starts Dharam khand steps.
 
Second stage is GYAAN KHAND.  and this stage begins when Naad becomes manifest. (Gyan Khand meh gyan patchand, tithai NAAD binodh kod anand)...or should I say that Gyan begins at Naad. The gyaan is not just intuitive knowledge. But it is a continuous gyaan of increased awareness, consciousness expansion, ridd sidh- nau nidh and all the signals mentioned in prabh ka simran pauri of sukhmani sahib lets say... all the washing of dirt from mann, purification ,,gyaan to help power 5 dhuts   etc      Then is SARAM KHAND and KARAM KHAND, which are very close and describe the path/stage leading one up to "Sacha Darbar"  or the court of the lord. These are the heavens that are mentioned in many faiths and assumed to be final destinations,... but Guru Nanak Dev ji has given us the ultimate guide to beyond these angelic heavens and joys that sit outside the door of Waheguru's darbar. (I'm sure that heavens are not sachkhand). Saram Khand and Karam Khand  are described as being near impossible to depict or express,  but Dhan dhan Guru Nanak Dev ji sachey patshah has given the nishanees (insignias) with subtle hints in those pauris, so that they can be acknowledged and recognized to the seeker.
 

Thank you for creating this topic, To me they are spiritual, if I am on the same page. 
Dharam khand : First stage( realization) when we get into bhagti or start reading Gurbani. we start thinking about Salvation or Nirvana. Example: Reading Gurbani, doing any ritual to show devotion. For me, this stage was or is reading Sukhmani sahib ji. Just reading it to find peace, did not know the meaning, was not following it, merely reading it. some things I heard were oh by reading Gurbani, you won't gain anything but Maskeen ji said many people start here. They read Gurbani or do jaap to get their wishes fulfilled and eventually kundalini start rising up and they start developing love.
Gyan Khand: second stage ( practicing) , when we instead of just reading Gurbani, we start practicing it. We bring it into our Day to day lives. Example: becoming Sukhmani sahib ji, try to do what it says whether it's talking about Doing Naam Simran or meditation, getting rid of rajo, tamo, sato or not doing what to others which we don't want happen to us. Acknowledging our Ego and realizing how its trippin most of the time lol. Gaining humility, humbleness, letting go of selfish nature and other vices.
Saram Khand: Third stage( Effort),  we start working hard to achieve the main objective of life which is to get rid of this life/death cycle. We have love for Vaheguroo and guroo, regardless of whether we are in comfort or not, or whether our wishes are or will be fulfilled. I am listening to Maskeen ji ( brahmand di alolak katha) while typing this and he just said birds are returning home and they are chirping singing and are content, they don't care about whether they have food for tomorrow or not. This kinda resonate with this Khand, there is no worry about tomorrow, surrendering to creator and making an effort to merge with it.
Next two Khands are for advanced people. There are some people over here who know them or have glimpse of them. I am a bad candidate to even talk about them lol
Karam Khand: Our bajjar kapats( divine door) are opened,panj doots are controlled, maya is showing its full power to tackle seeker on this stage, dasam duar is opened, rom rom naam simran and connection to creator is created.
Sach Khand: Stage of Truth. Salvation. 

There's theological differences between various writings in Dasam Granth.
You have to have a keen eye to recognize these, be able to recognize the language and the use of such language in other scriptures and in Dasam Granth. Following from that it helps if you have studied Indian religions and how they are structured, and know a little bit about their scriptures as well.
So I'll give you one example -
In Chandi Di Var, Bhagawati is the supreme, everything is created by her, she is the source of all things. That's why this writing starts with - ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ
ਖੰਡਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੈ ਸਾਜ ਕੈ ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਸੈਸਾਰੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
Khanda prithme saaj kai jin sab sansaar upaya
First the divine feminine creates the masculine principle. First Bhagawati creates Khanda who is symbol of masculine force that is consciousness or spirit. Then with that she creates the entire world.
(In Indic thought, the universe is split into masculine (spirit) and feminine (matter and energy) forces.)
Now the next line splits the masculine force into three elements.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਦਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥
Three elements are - creative, preservative and destructive, and with these three elements this the play of nature was created.
Bhagawati creates the world, the mountains, skies, and populates with angels and demons.
ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
Bhagawati then creates Durga to wipe out the demons whenever they cause trouble.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ
Shri Ram and Krishan ji get their power from her. Many great sages even could not know her end.
 
This is the basic Shakat belief system, in a nutshell.  Shaktism, it's where the divine feminine is considered the source of everything. And that is the underlying belief system in Chandi di Var.
Contrast this with other parts of Dasam Granth where Mahakal/Kaal Purakh/Shri Kaal/Shri Kharag, the divine masculine is the source of everything.
Also contract this with Guru Granth Sahib, where Shri Ram and Krishan ji are the source of all beings and source of power itself. ਏਕ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨੰ ਤ ਸਰਬ ਦੇਵਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਤ ਆਤਮਹ ॥ ਆਤਮੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਾਸ੍ਵਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨਸਿ ਭੇਵ ॥
These kinds of theological differences are present within Dasam Granth, and these differences arise between Dasam Granth and Guru Granth Sahib.
And @amardeep you were asking before, why I thought Guru Sahib never added Dasam Granth to Guru Granth Sahib. This is a small taste of why he didn't mix them. The theology in all parts of Guru Granth Sahib is the same. The theology in Dasam Granth varies, party-by-part, and it is very different from Guru Granth Sahib. So if you mix them it will lead to a lot of confusion. Ideally you want to keep them separate.

@amardeep You also want to consider my response to your post about the parallels in Bachittar Natak Granth and Bhagawad Gita. It is a related post.
 

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

Do any of you guys view the charitars in deeper spiritual contexts?? ..or maybe I'm going loopy? ;)
Personally, I usually read and try to think of what quality or dhoot is being represented by characters. In most of them, and in this one, the woman could be maya. How maya can sometimes convince you of how loved and great you are and yet at the same time she's fooling you and having you play around in the drama of life. 
Most of dasam bani and Guruji's works are given for us to see the truth in them and NOT to judge them at surface levels on whether men do this, did that or did the story really happen or not. For example, the Ramayan recited in detail is not to endorse whether the myth of ram and sita is true or not, but it's the message.  .. If you look at the whole story carefully, you may see that Ram represents the True Lord in his purest form. When he is born of Das-rath (represents 10 indries), then he is bound in human kapra. Thus falls in love with physical roop/beauty of maya-Mann (when mind is drenched in maya) this is Sita. Remember that SIta is not born of human and comes and dies to the earth of Mother-maya-nature..............you see what I'm getting at?    ... Because I really don't think myths like that were reiterated by Guruji to prove whether the stories took place or not, but were given to knock some truthful messages into us moorakhs.

the act itself can become a form of worship..  That's how I see it :)  .........the experience of God in each other

the act itself can become a form of worship..  That's how I see it :)  .........the experience of God in each other

Don't get stuck on one end of the stick here!   You see, a spiritual experience actually occurs every time one sheds away a layer of ego. There are many layers of ego that have to go one by one as the transformation of a Sikh occurs. Yes, some can fall victim to shedding 2 layers and then gaining another 4, but this is the way 5 dhuts work. You may think you've achieved kaam or lobh but the haumai may end up quadrupling or moh may also double. We don't need to worry about the judging of others 5 dhuts. We need to worry about ourselves and our own Transformation which will only begin when one starts purifying and shedding their own layers.

A true gurmukh sees GOD in every one and every thing...........Sabh Gobind hai, Gobind bin na koyee
 

Don't get stuck on one end of the stick here!   You see, a spiritual experience actually occurs every time one sheds away a layer of ego. There are many layers of ego that have to go one by one as the transformation of a Sikh occurs. Yes, some can fall victim to shedding 2 layers and then gaining another 4, but this is the way 5 dhuts work. You may think you've achieved kaam or lobh but the haumai may end up quadrupling or moh may also double. We don't need to worry about the judging of others 5 dhuts. We need to worry about ourselves and our own Transformation which will only begin when one starts purifying and shedding their own layers.

Don't get stuck on one end of the stick here!   You see, a spiritual experience actually occurs every time one sheds away a layer of ego. There are many layers of ego that have to go one by one as the transformation of a Sikh occurs. Yes, some can fall victim to shedding 2 layers and then gaining another 4, but this is the way 5 dhuts work. You may think you've achieved kaam or lobh but the haumai may end up quadrupling or moh may also double. We don't need to worry about the judging of others 5 dhuts. We need to worry about ourselves and our own Transformation which will only begin when one starts purifying and shedding their own layers.