Mistakes in Gutka and Gurbani Apps

[Trimandeep Singh]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Daas wants to forward some really useful information to sangat on this forum.

MISTAKES IN GUTKE AND GURBANI APPS:

Those people who listen to Nitnem Paath from different paathis on YouTube like Taksaal, Nanaksar, AKJ, or those who have read bani from different Pothis or Gurbani apps must have noted that there are some (sometimes many) differerences in their uchaaran (audio) and in spellings of different words and the position of mangals and sirlekhs.

Today,the reason for so many inaccuracies in gutke and Gurbani apps are the selfish motives of the Gurbani press and SGPC and ignorance of panthic jathebandis. To earn profits, they just keep on printing gutke and senchis without doing any research. 

Back then, a great Panthic Scholar Daarji Joginder Singh Talwara Ji was appointed by the panth to do research on puratan saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Pothi sahibs to reduce the differences in saroops. He researched for more than 3 decades and came up with his excellent works which were really ahead of his time.

Daas will give an example in the end.

SANTHIYA AND VICHAR:
Due to the request of UK Sangat, Ex Akaal Takht Jathedar Late Singh Sahib Joginder Singh Vedanti (who was a student of Taksaal and later Talwara Ji) started a Sangat Santhiya class to teach Santhiya and aware sangat of the correct spellings according to puratan handwritten saroops. Daas has joined the Santhiya classes and they are very useful. Currently, our teacher is Bhai Surjit Singh Sabhra, head Granthi of Gurudwara Ber Sahib and we are doing Santhiya of Sri Tav Prasad Saviyye. Very knowledgeable gursikhs also attend the class and come up with views of different scholars on uchaaran and spellings of words like Talwara Ji, Vedanti Ji, Taksaal, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha etc and with sangati vichar, we are able to make our uchaaran more shudh and read words according to Puratan Saroop spellings. If you wish to join, here is the link 

https://chat.whatsapp.com/GXRJKCmVfd23EfplJYM61d

Timings of the class:
Saturday and Sunday 
1:00-2:00 pm UK
5:30-6:30 pm India 
(You can convert the time according to your time zone) 

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EXAMPLE OF INACCURACY:

SRI JAAP SAHIB:
If we ask 3 people that how do they start Sri Jaap Sahib, one will say
1. ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥   ॥ ਜਾਪੁ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥
2. ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹਿ॥ ਜਾਪੁ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥

Which one is correct? 
According to the pictures of handwritten puratan saroops given below, the FIRST ONE is correct.

ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library)

ਸੰਨ 1755 ਈ. ਦੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਾਪੁ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਰਜ਼। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library)

ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੀ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਗੁਰਤੇਜ ਸਿੰਘ ਏ.ਐਸ.ਆਈ., Punjab Digital Library)

ਦਸਮ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਛੋਟੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪੋਥੀ।

ਸੰਨ 1831 ਈ. ਦੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਦਿੱਲੀ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਕਮੇਟੀ, Punjab Digital Library)

SRI ANAND SAHIB:
There's a prachalit version of Mangal of Anand Sahib.

‘ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears before ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’

However, according to puratan handwritten saroops, the manglacharan is 

‘ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears after ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’

HOWEVER, After 1735, the handwritten saroops didn't have ਰਾਗੁ in their manglacharan. Their manglacharan was reverse of current manglacharan- 

‘ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ’ appears after ‘ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ’

 

ਸ਼੍ਰੋਮਣੀ ਕਮੇਟੀ ਵਲੋਂ ਛਪਾਈਆਂ ਗਈਆਂ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਪੋਥੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਫੋਟੋਆਂ।
ਖੱਬੇ: ਸਤੰਬਰ ੧੯੫੮ ਦੀ ਛਪਾਈ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਪੋਥੀ। ਸੱਜੇ: ਸਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੦ ਦੀ ਛਪਾਈ ਪੰਜ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਪੋਥੀ।  

ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਪੋਥੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੋ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਛੇਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪੋਥੀ ਹੈ।

ਸੰਨ 1695 ਈ. ਦੀ ਰਾਮਰਾਇ ਵਾਲੀ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ। (ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library)

ਸੰਨ 1714 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ।
(ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library)

SAROOPS AFTER 1735 WITH DIFFERENT MANGLACHARAN (RAAG OMITTED IN RAAG RAMKALI ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਅਨੰਦੁ )

ਸੰਨ 1746 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਬੀੜ।
(ਹਵਾਲਾ: ਤਖਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕੇਸਗੜ੍ਹ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਨੰਦਪੁਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ)

ਸੰਨ 1749 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਬੀੜ।

ਸੰਨ 1801 ਈ. ਦੀ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਚੀਨ ਬੀੜ।
(ਹਵਾਲਾ: Punjab Digital Library)

 

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CONCLUSION:
 Many inaccuracies like these are discussed by sangat along with Santhiya vichar. Daas requests sangat here to take out just 2 hours of the week and contribute to the vichar in the class. This will benefit many. Yesterday, we pointed out 2 mistakes in SGPC Gutka and Head Granthi Sahib (Bhai Surjit Singh Sabhra) said that he will approach SGPC authorities today and make them aware of the mistakes. By contributing to the vichar, we can help ourselves as well as the concerned Sikhs.

Bhul chuk maaf 

Trimandeep Singh (INDIA) 

[Trimandeep Singh]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Daas also wants to request sangat on the forum that those who can't attend the classes or don't want to for any reason can post the inaccuracies you found while reading bani on this thread. You can also ask about the uchaaran of certain words. Sangat can do vichar on the basis of Gurbani grammar and knowledge and come up with a solution.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh (India)

 

[Ragmaala]

When you listen to santhiya by Damdami Taksal on Gurmatveechar.com you will realize that there are numerous mistakes in SGGS saroops by SGPC.  Hopefully, SGPC and Damdami Taksal can come together, and solve this issue. 

Also, I have heard in one of the kathas that when they do Akhand Path Sahib at Akal Takht sahib they don't read ragmala bani. Is that true ?

In the 1960s, there was a conspiracy to change the mangals in Gurbani as well as remove Bhagat bani. If it had been not for the great mahapurush of that time such as Sant Ishar Singh Ji Nanaksar kaleran vale, rara sahib vale, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa and many more, things would have been really bad for us. 

[Soulfinder]

VJKK VJKF Fellow veers. This is a really good thread and dass would like to add that in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji there so many mistakes printed also as no one is doing anything about it. As Dass was trying to do paath of certain banis from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji in Roman English and the words printed left me shocked so dass printed the banis and uses a pencil to mark where dass finds a mistake whilst listening to the aufio track of the banis that i am trying to do paath from.

https://www.searchgurbani.com/

 

This app is another example of how bad the mistakes are printed as dass used to use this app a lot whilst learning nitnem banis along with a few other paaths.

[Trimandeep Singh]

3 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

When you listen to santhiya by Damdami Taksal on Gurmatveechar.com you will realize that there are numerous mistakes in SGGS saroops by SGPC.  Hopefully, SGPC and Damdami Taksal can come together, and solve this issue. 

Also, I have heard in one of the kathas that when they do Akhand Path Sahib at Akal Takht sahib they don't read ragmala bani. Is that true ?

In the 1960s, there was a conspiracy to change the mangals in Gurbani as well as remove Bhagat bani. If it had been not for the great mahapurush of that time such as Sant Ishar Singh Ji Nanaksar kaleran vale, rara sahib vale, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa and many more, things would have been really bad for us. 

Bhai sahib please refrain from touching topics like Raagmaala. The whole Panth has come to a conclusion through advice by Panthic Scholars so let's not label it a conspiracy. Answering your question, it's not read at Akaal Takht Sahib but in Sri Darbar Sahib it is read.

Also, we can't rely on SGPC. SGPC is controlled by Malechhs. Initially Keski was a mandatory Rehat for bibis but sadly, just because the wife of a powerful SGPC leader refused to wear a keski, they didn't mention it in the Rehat Maryada. If we start pressurizing the SGPC to print only Larivaar Saroops, they would surely refuse. Their major revenue comes from 'selling' Guru Sahib Pad Ched Saroops to people (yes, selling because it is a business for them) and how would Badal read bani from Larivaar? (Maybe he doesn't even read any)

Anyways, it's also sad that despite having access to puratan handwritten saroops, Damdami Taksal Press has still adopted the current position of Manglacharans and taken only a few steps to correct spelling mistakes. It's in the hands of our generation now to do khoj and do research in puratan saroops like Talwara Ji and Vedanti Ji so that our Virsa can be preserved.

We need our generation to produce more of Pinderpals, Nirmal Singhs, Talwaras, Vedantis and Inderjeets. We desperately need a leader like Sant Attar Singh, Sant Kartar Singh, Bhai sahib Randhir Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh Ji to start another Gurudwara Sudhaar Lehar and preserve our khazaana before the RSS or BJP govt start their Aurangzebi Raaj.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh India

[Trimandeep Singh]

Sangat Ji, today I attended the second last class of Tav Prasad Saviyye Santhiya and here I would like to aware you of popular mistakes in gutke and Gurbani apps.

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2nd  Saviyya

ਏਤੇ ਭਏ ਤੁ ਕਹਾ ਭਏ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਅੰਤ ਕੋ ਨਾਂਗੇ ਹੀ ਪਾਂਇ ਪਧਾਰੇ॥੨॥੨੨॥

In many gutke, ਭੂਪਤਿ is written as ਭੂਪਤ which is misprint.

3rd Saviyya 

ਗੁੰਜਤ ਗੂੜ ਗਜਾਨ ਕੇ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਹਿੰਸਤ ਹੈਂ ਹਯਰਾਜ ਹਜਾਰੇ॥ 

In many gutke, ਹੈਂ is written as ਹੀ which is misprint.

In 4th Saviyya 

ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਦਮ ਦਾਨ ਸੁ ਸੰਜਮ ਨੇਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਬਿਸੇਖੈ॥

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਜਮੀਨ ਜਮਾਨ ਸਬਾਨ ਕੇ ਪੇਖੈ॥

ਪਉਨ ਅਹਾਰ ਜਤੀ ਜਤ ਧਾਰ ਸਬੈ ਸੁ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਹਜਾਰਕ ਦੇਖੈ॥

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਭਜੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਏਕ ਰਤੀ ਬਿਨੁ ਏਕ ਨ ਲੇਖੈ॥੪॥੨੪॥

Notice the last word in all panktis have Dulaavan on ਖ, that is, ਖੈ. However, in first three panktis the correct spellings of the last words are ਬਿਸੇਖੇ, ਪੇਖੇ, ਦੇਖੇ and the ਲੇਖੈ in last pankti is to read as it is only. ਲੇਖੈ is already correct.

In 6th Saviyya 

ਗਾੜ੍ਹੇ ਗੜ੍ਹਾਨ ਕੇ ਤੋੜਨਹਾਰ ਸੁ ਬਾਤਨ ਹੀਂ ਚਕ ਚਾਰ ਲਵੱਯਾ॥

In many gutke, ਕੇ is written as ਕੋ which is misprint.

In 8th Saviyya 

ਕੋਟਿ ਇਸਨਾਨ ਗਜਾਦਿਕ ਦਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਸੁ ਅੰਬਰ ਸਾਜ ਬਰੈਂਗੇ॥

In many gutke, ਇਸਨਾਨ is written as ਸਨਾਨ which is misprint.

In 9th Saviyya 

ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੋਂ ਸੁਨ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਭੈ ਜਿਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਕੀਓ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਪਾਇਓ ॥੯॥੨੯॥

In many gutke, ਕਹੋਂ is written as ਕਹੌਂ which is misprint 

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Everything above is based on research of puratan handwritten saroops by Ex Akaal Takht Jathedar Late Singh Sahib Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti Ji. 

Daas will keep on posting on this thread as I come to know about these printing mistakes. I again request all sangat to contribute to this thread. You can write the panktis or words which you found differently written/printed in gutka sahib or Gurbani apps and sangat here can do vichar or I can ask Giani Jee. Daas is 100% sure that if sangat enthusiastically contributes to this thread, the benefit that the readers will get will be ਅਤੁਲ (immeasurable).

I expect @Soulfinder @Ragmaala @paapiman @sevak @chatanga1 @sarabatam@Samarbir Singh @Jageera @GurjantGnostic @WaheguruDaGulam  @ragnarok  @Noobhere @PCSJZ etc who read bani and who I have talked to on this forum to contribute in this thread.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh (INDIA) 

 

 

[Ragmaala]

@Trimandeep Singh I love your enthusiasm. You are energetic and using your time in a productive manner. Keep it up!

With time, and more experience you will realize the uncertainties in life, the grey areas, and the more you experience, the more you will know that you don't know anything. Atleast that was the case for me. But Keep it up!

Now onto some points you made. 

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Bhai sahib please refrain from touching topics like Raagmaala. The whole Panth has come to a conclusion through advice by Panthic Scholars so let's not label it a conspiracy. Answering your question, it's not read at Akaal Takht Sahib but in Sri Darbar Sahib it is read.

This is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed first. If you don't read complete bani at Akal Takht , how does one expect a chardikala to happen? I hope the conclusion you are referring to is that Ragmala is Baani. 

 

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

We need our generation to produce more of Pinderpals, Nirmal Singhs, Talwaras, Vedantis and Inderjeets.

How do you propose to do that ? Let's say you want to become Bhai Pinderpal Singh. How would do you do that ? Let's not talk about producing others, let's talk about transforming ourselves. In order to do correct parchar, one needs to have practical experience of Gurbani.  Mahapurush who did great prachar were all great Naam Abhiyasis and Kamai vale. Naam Abhiyaas comes first, then parchar is a duty given by Akal Purakh Ji. If there is Kamai, only then the parchar will pierce into the hearts.  for example, the kathavachacks from Damdamil Taksal during Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's time were advised to have completed 36 Lakh mala of Moolmantra or 20-25000 Waheguru Japa everyday.

[Trimandeep Singh]

59 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

@Trimandeep Singh I love your enthusiasm. You are energetic and using your time in a productive manner. Keep it up!

With time, and more experience you will realize the uncertainties in life, the grey areas, and the more you experience, the more you will know that you don't know anything. Atleast that was the case for me. But Keep it up!

Thanks Bhai sahib for motivating me. I also heard from gursikhs that as we deep dive into understanding bani, the more we go in, the more we explore those never-heard-before areas. First, Gurbani is Agaadh Bodh. Second, bani also reduces our pride. As we read bani, we consider ourself more nikamma and moorakh and become more of a SIKH, that we don't know anything, it is only Satguru Ji who can bless us. Vaheguru!

 

59 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

This is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed first. If you don't read complete bani at Akal Takht , how does one expect a chardikala to happen? I hope the conclusion you are referring to is that Ragmala is Baani. 

Bhai sahib, this is not a new issue. Even Mahakavi Bhai Santokh Singh Ji talks about this. I respect your opinions that Raagmaala is bani. However, one is influenced a lot by sangat. I am very much influenced by Gurmat Bibek Gursikhs/Tapoban Sahib Gursikhs or you can say AKJ gursikhs. I have also done research on Raagmala to know the points of people against and in favour of Raagmala. As we are the one left with choice to read it or not, I don't read it. Somehow, I found AKJ opinion more logical and in line with Gurmat. Anyways, main point is that we can't conclude on an online platform if it's bani or not. We have Brahmgyani and Mahaan scholars on both sides. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji and all AKJ Mahapurakhs, Vidya Martand Pandit Kartar Singh Daakha, Joginder Singh Talwara Ji  were against it and Taksaal, Nanaksar and majority Panth is in favour. However, instead of looking at the difference in opinion we must also look at the love between puratan AKJ and Taksal gursikhs. Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji called Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji a Sant. Sant Kartar Singh Ji would himself serve Langar to Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji. Baba Harnaam Singh Ji Rampur Khera attended the bhog of sehaj Paath despite knowing bhog would be at mundawni. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji would shower love on Babbar Khalsa Jodhe and Shaheed Bhai Fauja Singh Ji. In 1978, gursikhs of both sides gave shaheedi to protect the honour of their guru.

It's better not to touch these sensitive topics or else we all will be labelling each other as Kurehtis and Tankhaiye. 

59 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

Let's say you want to become Bhai Pinderpal Singh. How would do you do that ? Let's not talk about producing others, let's talk about transforming ourselves. In order to do correct parchar, one needs to have practical experience of Gurbani.  Mahapurush who did great prachar were all great Naam Abhiyasis and Kamai vale. Naam Abhiyaas comes first, then parchar is a duty given by Akal Purakh Ji. If there is Kamai, only then the parchar will pierce into the hearts.  for example, the kathavachacks from Damdamil Taksal during Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's time were advised to have completed 36 Lakh mala of Moolmantra or 20-25000 Waheguru Japa everyday.

Bhai Sahib, when did I say I want to become Bhai Pinderpal Singh Ji? Only virle gursikhs can have so much dedication and knowledge about Gurmat. It's my bad that I didn't elaborate. I didn't mean that everyone should leave their work and start doing khoj. I meant to say that we need to do research on Gurbani. We need to inspire others to make efforts to understand bani. Those people who actually have the chaah to become kirtanis and parcharaks and do panthic Sewa, the panth will take care of their household needs through Daswandh. And we should also start with our own family and inspire them to explore this anmol khazaana. Only if we encourage our friends and family to do gurmat deeds, even then it is great panthic Sewa. Main Point is naam japna, Kamaayi karni and doing Sewa of Panth as much as we can. Starting online Santhiya and gurmat vichar classes and using technology to reach mass sangat will also benefit a lot. Contributing to the vichar in this thread will also be a great Sewa by gursikhs.

May Guru sahib do kirpa and bless his beloved gursikhs to do Sewa and Simran and do mass parchaar of Sikhi.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh (India)

[Soulfinder]

Here are mistakes that dass found with Shastar Naam Mala

[Trimandeep Singh]

@Soulfinderji, I think sangat here (including me) can't do much about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Baani. You can post mistakes in Aad Bani in Gutke and apps. I think sangat will be able to give more input on that.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Trimandeep Singh]

19 minutes ago, Soulfinder said:

Here are mistakes that dass found with Shastar Naam Mala

One thing I can say for sure that in the first pic, there's a bindi under ਸ in ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ which is wrong. In whole Dasam Granth Sahib, Dashmesh Pita hasn't placed any bindi under ਸ.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Trimandeep Singh]

Daas is pasting links of blogs by Bhai Manvir Singh UK who has done research on Mangals of bani. These blogs are related to the position of mangals in Gurbani, the mistakes which I highlighted in my first post under 'Example of Inaccuracy'.

Sri Anand Sahib

http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2021/04/sri-anand-sahib.html?m=1

Sri Jaap Sahib 

http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2021/04/historical-references-for-mangal.html?m=1

Sri Sukhmani sahib 

http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2021/02/beautifully-handwritten-sukhmani-sahib.html?m=1

[Trimandeep Singh]

Here are the PDFs of Larivaar Pothi and Larivaar Santhiya Pothi published by World Sikh Parliament. Research done by Bhai Amanjot Singh UK on handwritten puratan saroops of Guru Sahib. These were published on the occasion of 400th Gurupurab of Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur sahib ji.

These contain all the baani of 9th Guru Sahib with correct spellings of Gurbani words according to puratan saroops.

Bani Mahala 9 - Santhiya Pothi V2.pdf

Bani Mahala 9 - Larivaar V2.pdf

Daas

Trimandeep Singh (INDIA) 

[WaheguruDaGulam]

This santhya recording by bhagat jaswant singh ji is amazing.

As every matra is given full pronunciation.

https://www.damdamitaksal.com/audio/listen/J/754-bhagat-jaswant-singh/728-nitnem-santhiya

[Trimandeep Singh]

Were these Santhiya tracks recorded after Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji went for Sachkhand? Because Daas has heard from many gursikhs that after Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, the adding of bindi (when necessary to get correct meanings) was greatly reduced by paathis of Jatha Bhindran. 

Bhul chuk maaf 

Trimandeep Singh 

[WaheguruDaGulam]

Yes I suppose but they are great vidarthi of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa

They studied along with Sant Kartar Singh ji.

They probably have the most shudh uchaaran of bani in the whole world.

[Trimandeep Singh]

I have heard that uchaaran and putting of bindis has been changed in many words by paathis of Jatha Bhindran after Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's achkhand gaman. 

One example is Sant Giani Mohan Singh Ji Bhindranwaale pronounced ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ as ਤੁਐਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ whereas traditionally in all sampradas, ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ was pronounced as ਤੁਅਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[WaheguruDaGulam]

I think your right because bhagat ji also says ਤੁਅਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ in the recording.

 

[paapiman]

On 5/23/2021 at 2:52 PM, Trimandeep Singh said:

I think sangat here (including me) can't do much about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Baani. You can post mistakes in Aad Bani in Gutke and apps. I think sangat will be able to give more input on that.

IMHO, let's keep the topic open to ALL Gurbani (Sri Aad - including Sri Raagmala Sahib, Sri Dasam and Sri Sarabloh).

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

15 hours ago, paapiman said:

IMHO, let's keep the topic open to ALL Gurbani (Sri Aad - including Sri Raagmala Sahib, Sri Dasam and Sri Sarabloh).

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Bhai sahib I have no problem in discussing about Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib or Raagmaala. I said that because people can do more vichar and give more inputs for doubts in uchaaran or vishraam of Aad Bani. This is because we all are comparitively more familiar with the vishraams and Gurbani grammar applied in Guru Granth Sahib and it is easier to do arth vichar. Dasam Granth Sahib has more mehnge shabd from various languages. Eg: Shastar naam maala question of Soulfinder ji. If you can answer his query, then it would be great!

Doubts from banis of all granths are welcomed.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Trimandeep Singh]

Another great video of Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti Ji in which he tells about the negligence showed by SGPC towards spelling mistakes in SGPC published Gutka.

[chatanga1]

On 5/24/2021 at 3:23 PM, Trimandeep Singh said:

One example is Sant Giani Mohan Singh Ji Bhindranwaale pronounced ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ as ਤੁਐਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ whereas traditionally in all sampradas, ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ was pronounced as ਤੁਅਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ.

The nitnem i use to help shudh ucharni is from Dal Panth and Giani Rann Singh says "ਤੁਐਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ" as well.

 

On 5/23/2021 at 7:08 PM, Trimandeep Singh said:

It's better not to touch these sensitive topics or else we all will be labelling each other as Kurehtis and Tankhaiye.

It's ok to discuss sensitive topics as long as we do it with respect and have the strength to acknowledge that others may not feel the same. I personally read Raagmala but have no problems with any Sikh who doesn't.

 

On 5/23/2021 at 5:32 PM, Trimandeep Singh said:

Daas will keep on posting on this thread as I come to know about these printing mistakes.

 

Brother, when the SGPC began the process of studying the saroops of SGGS to begin the standardisation, from which to print from, they found that between the saroops they studied there were 570 differences. They did this exercise in the 1930/40s and arrived at the one they use today. So since that decade long study into SGGS, they came to what we have as the standard printed version. Now these mistakes were spelling mistakes from scribes which got repeated and repeated as these older saroops were copied from and so on. The SGPC studied these differences and came up with a common census on how the word should be spelled.

 

So today if you compare the standard printed version to older saroops you are bound to find differences. 

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Now these mistakes were spelling mistakes from scribes which got repeated and repeated as these older saroops were copied from and so on.

Were they all spelling mistakes or were any other major differences also noted by the scholars?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

20 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

The nitnem i use to help shudh ucharni is from Dal Panth and Giani Rann Singh says "ਤੁਐਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ" as well.

It's okay Bhai sahib. But from what Daas has heard, traditionally the uchaaran is ਤੁਅਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ only. Also, as WaheguruDaGulam Ji said, Bhagat Ji who was a student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa also says ਤੁਅਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ.

20 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

It's ok to discuss sensitive topics as long as we do it with respect and have the strength to acknowledge that others may not feel the same. I personally read Raagmala but have no problems with any Sikh who doesn't.

I have no problem in discussing these topics while being respectful to each other. However my thinking is that we are no scholars who can decide on an Online platform if it's bani or not. You will give me names of various Mahapurakhs and scholars and state their opinion and I'll do the same.

When the Rehat Maryada says bhog can be done at Mundawni or Raagmaala, it's over. Guru Khalsa Panth has decided this. However, your concerns about a uniform Rehat Maryada also can't be just ignored. We need to accept this. Even various mahapurush had certain differences in interpreting important updesh of guru sahib. But, ultimately we all are under an umbrella of Khalsa Panth.

20 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

So today if you compare the standard printed version to older saroops you are bound to find differences.

I understand this but atleast we can point out obvious mistakes and current gutke sahib. And the changing of position of manglacharan is a really big thing. Atleast, the position was same in all puratan saroops. So, let's not be discouraged and help each other : )

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[chatanga1]

19 hours ago, paapiman said:

Were they all spelling mistakes or were any other major differences also noted by the scholars?

 

The essay I read said "differences" but I think these were mainly scribal errors.

 

34 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

When the Rehat Maryada says bhog can be done at Mundawni or Raagmaala, it's over.

 

I agree with this 100%. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that either is done, although I do read raagmala myself.