harsharan000

Yeah so true.
ha ha ha ha haaaah.
Well said Bro.

Verily true, well said.
Not only nirbhau and nirvair qualities of Waheguru can not  be perceived until one reaches that higher avastha, but also any of the other qulaities such as omnipresence, omnipotence or omniscience among others.
For though He is everything and everywhere, yet is of no use to us, for we have not realized or mnaifested Him within us.
Just as we know butter is in the milk and comes by churning it, yet we can not say as the butter is in the milk so I will have it applied it on the toast.
Radio waves/frecuencies  are present everywhere, yet if we do not have a tv receiver or a radio receiver, we can not listen the news or see the tv.
In a similar way, the Lord Waheguru is present everywhere, yet in spite of this fact, the evil doers incurr in their bad karam without shame. Neither does He do anything to stop not only this aspect, but as well as other happenings, for that purpose He made the law of Karam.
It is only when with bhakti we establish Him within our minds by His grace, it is then when He is our rakhanhaar, our protector, our benefactor, for we have given ourself to Him unconditionally.
So let us not say as seen and said by someone, that because He is everything and everywhere, all is good.
Nope, that is not correct, it is cheating ourselves and others with fragile mind.
Glad for you pen jee, you brought this positive point forward.
SSA.

Yeah so true.
ha ha ha ha haaaah.
Well said Bro.

I 2nd Ragmaala veers question.How to experience and accept He is all?There has to be steps towards that realization.What good is there in knowing it's all Him?Shouldn't we experience that it's all Him?
Yes fearlessness would go away as dead mauled bodies have no fear in them🤣

Good post Bro.
He is everywhere and everything, this is fine and there is no doubt about it, but at our present level we have not that avastha to say it convincingly. We are talking more like conceptuals than what it really is about.
And the fact is, He has created dualities, pair of opposites,  diversity, multiplicity, gyan agyan, truth-untruth, birth - death and so on .
And He wants us to discern and come out from all this paraphernalia, with the practical aid of Gurbani, and realize Him, not otherwise.
As I said in my post above, we all  know butter comes out from milk, but unless we apply a jugtee and bring out the butter from that milk, it would not be wise to say as butter is inthe milk, I will apply it on the toast and have, then this will only show our pettiness, for the slice bread will be drenched with milk, not butter for sure.
Or  as you said, He is everywhere and as He is good, so if I meet a tiger in the jungle, nothing will happen to me...what rubbish....looooollllll, that foolish person will be for sure a happy meal for the tiger... 😆😆😆😆😆
Please let us take care of what we say or express, and not just pour out our wild neurotical fancies, for with that attitude people can be drawn farther away from the Truth of Gurbani, except for a few who couragesly and politely see contacdictions and ask for clarifications.
Though, if the person by itself is confused and yet believes to be right, hardly can it add any clarity or light to the matter in question.
For god´s sake, He has given us some sense, let us make use of it, a bit though  if not much.
 

Waheguru ji, 
You are absolutely correct, I am not contradicting any thing you wrote nor m trying to argue. All I am saying is what I understand as per my experience. Being Nirbhau isn't easy. We all know Guru Nanak sahib told us that my waheguru ji has these amazing attributes. He's Nirbhau, Nirvair, Akaal moorat, KartaPurakh, ajoooni .... I would love to go on and on On this...  we all want to be like our supreme Dad of course. 
But it isn't easy. I have seen many abhiyaasis getting scared in their Abhyaas. I have felt a terror myself. Being Nirbhau is just isn't something you can do to yourself it's his grace- avastha that he himself imparts when and only when one Trust him- surrender to him completely. - hun Tu jaan Waheguru meri Dori haath tumhare. Tu farr mainu..  mai kujh nahi bass tu hi tu hai jo hai.. 
@harsharan000 one n first positive response from you. Made my day😊😊. 
 

Have you had the practical experience yourself that he's all ?
What do you mean by accepting he's all ? Do you mean believing he's all or do you mean reaching a state of mind or avastha after bandgi/simran where you experience Sab Gobind hai...Gobind bin nahi koe..
Just trying to understand your perspective.  If I give my own example. Let's say I am encountered by a wild tiger in a jungle. I have not reached the avastha where I have seen Gobind in all. But let's say if  I start believing/accepting that Gobind  is in Tiger. Will my fearlessness go away ?
or do you mean to say that keep practicing the jugti of trying to see God in all  and maybe one day it will manifest practically when you see that Hes all.  
In my limited understanding, I could be definitely wrong, but one has to attain this stage of seeing God in all and everywhere, basically having Darshan everywhere (like Bhagat Namdev ji who saw God in fire, dog etc) after Simran, Sewa and Bandgi.  Its not something one can imagine or believe or accept. Its something that practically manifests in one's life. Thats just my understanding. Because mostly all teachers/mahapurush start a person from Bhagti of Waheguru mantra/Sargun Upashna before a sadhaka is able to see Gobind in all.  As the sadhaka advances, he knows that All is Gobind and Gobind is all. 

Verily true, well said.
Not only nirbhau and nirvair qualities of Waheguru can not  be perceived until one reaches that higher avastha, but also any of the other qulaities such as omnipresence, omnipotence or omniscience among others.
For though He is everything and everywhere, yet is of no use to us, for we have not realized or mnaifested Him within us.
Just as we know butter is in the milk and comes by churning it, yet we can not say as the butter is in the milk so I will have it applied it on the toast.
Radio waves/frecuencies  are present everywhere, yet if we do not have a tv receiver or a radio receiver, we can not listen the news or see the tv.
In a similar way, the Lord Waheguru is present everywhere, yet in spite of this fact, the evil doers incurr in their bad karam without shame. Neither does He do anything to stop not only this aspect, but as well as other happenings, for that purpose He made the law of Karam.
It is only when with bhakti we establish Him within our minds by His grace, it is then when He is our rakhanhaar, our protector, our benefactor, for we have given ourself to Him unconditionally.
So let us not say as seen and said by someone, that because He is everything and everywhere, all is good.
Nope, that is not correct, it is cheating ourselves and others with fragile mind.
Glad for you pen jee, you brought this positive point forward.
SSA.

Glad to share bhen ji. Everywhere idiots exist and this guy is a biggest fool especially when these nastik people don't know anything about a puran mahapursh is really shocking. Dass has got a lot of prem and satkaar for Baba Nand Singh Ji so i avoid listening to type of bad words against any mahapursh.
 
Bhen ji here is the katha link of the 13th asatpadee by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawale which is really worth listening.
 
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Gurbachan_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/Guru_Granth_Sahib_Larivaar_Katha/Volume_04_Ang_0250-0346/27--Sant.Gurbachan.Singh.(Bhindran.wale)--Raag.Gourhi--Ang.279%2B280.(Sukhmani.Sahib).mp3

Verily true, well said.
Not only nirbhau and nirvair qualities of Waheguru can not  be perceived until one reaches that higher avastha, but also any of the other qulaities such as omnipresence, omnipotence or omniscience among others.
For though He is everything and everywhere, yet is of no use to us, for we have not realized or mnaifested Him within us.
Just as we know butter is in the milk and comes by churning it, yet we can not say as the butter is in the milk so I will have it applied it on the toast.
Radio waves/frecuencies  are present everywhere, yet if we do not have a tv receiver or a radio receiver, we can not listen the news or see the tv.
In a similar way, the Lord Waheguru is present everywhere, yet in spite of this fact, the evil doers incurr in their bad karam without shame. Neither does He do anything to stop not only this aspect, but as well as other happenings, for that purpose He made the law of Karam.
It is only when with bhakti we establish Him within our minds by His grace, it is then when He is our rakhanhaar, our protector, our benefactor, for we have given ourself to Him unconditionally.
So let us not say as seen and said by someone, that because He is everything and everywhere, all is good.
Nope, that is not correct, it is cheating ourselves and others with fragile mind.
Glad for you pen jee, you brought this positive point forward.
SSA.

I am sorry but i feel nirbhau and Nirvair are those distinctive qualities of Akal Purakh which can only be attained once a person reaches a certain Avastha. First step is to just walk towards this direction. Pray to waheguru ji that i want to walk on the path of 'liv' .. request him to pick his child or make him walk on his path. That's all one can do.. Rest is all in his hands. If he makes you do his Bhakti, Jap naam, enter sunn and imparts to different Avastha etc.  Haina?? 
At a time we start realising our faults and bads.. get to know the rights n wrongs... Somehow gets connected to sangat n so on... 

"I AM THE CREATOR OF MY SANSKARAS"
 
LETS REFLECT. 
QUESTION :IF MY QUALITY IS LOVE, WHY DOSENT THIS NATURAL PERFUME SUPRESS OTHER FRAGRANCES?
ANSWER :It is because the soul´s journey is much longer than one lifetime.
 
For example — I the soul playing the part wearing this bodily costume — develop a habit of self criticism. This sanskar leaves a deep imprint on me. Now when I leave this body and
take another one I will carry along this sanskar of self criticism with me.
No doubt others influence us, but we influence ourselves the most. That's why we cannot blame others for how we are feeling.
Whenever someone gives me 'criticism' or 'appreciation' I get a result only when I use it.
His role was only limited to giving me that 'gift'. The way the gift is used and the result it brings are not in his control. That power lies completely with me.
So let's put a full stop to whatever others have said in the past or are saying today.
My energy is my own creation and I have the power to create my thoughts irrespective of what I receive from outside.
The power lies only with ME. Always remember the thoughts I create are completely independent of the influence of the OUTER WORLD.
The remote control of my mind needs to be only in my hands. This is something that I need to remind myself each day, because it is very easy easy to succumb to BLAMING OTHERS.
Blaming others means holding people or situations responsible for how we are feeling.
COMPLAINING means means finding fault with everything and everyone.
We consider it normal and continue complaining without realizing the impact it is having on us.
There is a vast difference in COMPLAINING and having a CONCERN.
We need to understand this very clearly, COMPLAINING depletes our energy, and many of the times we are complaining about things that are not in our CONTROL.
COMPLAINING means focusing on the problem, and CONCERN is focusing on the solution.
We need to start RE-Programming our mind : AS ONLY , WE ARE RESPONSIBLE  FOR OUR LIFE 
Blaming makes no sense. 
Stay blessed. 
Best wishes 
💐🌷🌹
 

This is a excellent question that dass never has thought about before. One way method that could be be used is to spoil or encourage the child/kids with toys or sweet to do paath simran etc.  
Baba Fareed Ji’s mother, Bibi Mariam is the best example for which dass will add more info about their jeevan.
 
Here is a quick search dass did on youtube by our late veer bhai jugraj singh ji 
 

Dear Paappi ji,
different people may give you different valid replies, but that much  in simple words I may tell you that there are 3 stages.
The first one is of realization.
Here one realizes the importance of this type of bhakti of meditating of which you are asking. 
We all agree, we are sinners, and our sins are the huge barrier between us and  our beloved Lord Waheguru. Therefore we want to get purified with His grace, in order to go there where He is and merge in Him.
In this respect the Bani tells us:  
ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥
Pathith Paavan Har Naamaa ||
The Lord's Name is the Purifier of sinners.
So firstly,  we realize that if there is any such thing which can purify us, is that one of  meditating on His holy Name only.
 
Then the second stage is the one of application.
Means, we have to apply to a practical method, a jugtee, or let us say  Bhakti, in order to reach our goal, of that which one,  that  we realized its supreme importance in the first stage, and as said, it was of getting purified.
Now here once again, different questions may arise  in different minds, some may ask,   how much time should one engage in this practice.... minutes? hours? days? timings?  Or some may even think of substituing it with other practices, for that is what they have mainly seen others doing...
But fortunately we have Guru Jee with us, to remind and correct us, and bring us back to the right path again and again, for as Guru Jee tells us :
gur satgur kaa jo sikh akhaa-ay so bhalkay uth har naam Dhi-aavai.
One who calls himself a Sikh of the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.
Not only that much, rather Guru goes a step further by telling us :
Kirapaa Keejai Saa Math Dheejai Aath Pehar Thudhh Dhhiaaee ||
Show Your Mercy, and bless me with such understanding, that I may meditate on You, twenty-four hours a day.
Some may protest and say, why 24 hours? 
This also has an explanation, Guru Jee never says anything without a solid reason.  Though it is clear, that in the early morning hours we should meditate on Him, but, when He says all the 24 hours, it means, all the maximun time possible should be done, while eating,  walking, waiting, jogging, bathing etc.... every step towards Him counts in our favor, for having kept His name the maximum time of the day in our minds, then the result is, that we are unconciouslly subduing the mind, so, when on the next day we sit to meditate in the early hours, our mind will be almost groggy and will not be able to play mischiefs with us, by distracting us with its countless thoughts being poured continously....
The the other reason for which Guru Jee tells us to meditate on Him, all the 24 hours, that is becuase He knows how stupid and weak we are, so in this way, we will focus only on what He wants us to do and not do any sort of manmat of our which we usually do....
 
And the last and third stage, is that of transformation.
In this respect the Bani says:
Jin Har japeeya se Har hoeeya.
He who repeats His Name, becomes Him.
Thus we are transformed by getting purified with His name, from an alone and a wandering soul in pain, caught in the net  of the ceaseless chaurasee ka chakar, into the Infinte and blissful Waheguru Akal Purukh.
This in short, is the mahima of  Waheguru and the bhakti of meditating upon His Nao, His Nam, Satnam...
 
Stay blessed.
SSA.

Brother, 
I do follow what you are trying to say.
And as you have asked for an opinion, I will give you mine.
Just imagine, a classroom with a teacher and his students.  To those who are a bit less intelligent or attentive, he makes them sit in the front line, so that they could be more attentive to the lessons taught by him, while to those who are more sharp intellectualy, he makes them sit in the back rows, for he knows wherver they sit, they can easily grasp the teachings, yet that does not mean that he cares less for them.
You see, a true Gurmukh is not something physical, he is more a spiritual being than what we can perceive. 
So, if he is a Gurmukh, and he has to give you something, he can give it to you even if we are 7 seas far away physically from him.
For example Prithi Chand, was a son and a  brother to 2 Guru sahiban, stayed under the same roof with them, had Their darshan most of the time, yet his wickedness had no limits.
And there were sikh disciples of both  4 th and  5th Patshaeeya, who were quite distant from them, yet they were blessed with such love and faith in Them, that They were considered Akal Purkh by those sikhs. Physical nearness or distance is irrelevant, when it comes in terms of these Holy people, for if they have to give you something, they will give it you wherever you are, on the contrary, one may be behind them as shadows, and if they have nothing to give, you will never get it by physical nearness.
So you see, we should not be much affected of how they deal with others, our main aim should be, that, if we have once identified Them as Gurmukhs by Their grace/kirpa, we should rather keep an eye ourselves  and see if our love, faith and affection for them has not suffered any decrease in quality.
That is it.
 
As a sample, the below 2 verses from the Bani, describe the reality of the spiritual heights of Gurmukhs, Sant Jan, Bhagat Jan:
 
ਮੋ ਕਉ ਦੀਜੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੰਤਨ ਪਗ ਰਾਲ ॥੨॥
Mo Ko Dheejai Dhaan Prabh Santhan Pag Raal ||2||
Bless me, O God, with the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||2||
ਜਗਤ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਸਾਧ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਲਾਗਹੁ ਪਾਲ ॥
Jagath Oudhhaaran Saadhh Prabh Thinh Laagahu Paal ||
God's Holy people are the saviors of the world; I grab hold of the hem of their robes.

Raag Bilaaval Guru Arjan Dev
 
SSA.

Where is Nij Pad explained.
https://www.facebook.com/100003234266996/videos/3451293338321774/
 
Ang 1159
I focus my meditation on my inner self, deep within. 
nij pad (behind between the eyes) oopar laago Dhi-aan.
The Name of the Sovereign Lord is my spiritual wisdom. Pause
raajaa raam naam moraa barahm gi-aan. rahaa-o.
In the first chakra, the root chakra, I have grasped the reins and tied them.
mool du-aarai banDhi-aa banDh.
I have firmly placed the moon above the sun.
rav oopar geh raakhi-aa chand.
The sun blazes forth at the western gate.
pachham du-aarai sooraj tapai.
Through the central channel of the Shushmanaa, it rises up above my head.
mayr dand sir oopar basai.
There is a stone at that western gate,
pascham du-aaray kee sil orh.
and above that stone, is another window.
tih sil oopar khirhkee a-or.
Above that window is the Tenth Gate.
khirhkee oopar dasvaa du-aar.
Says Kabeer, it has no end or limitation.
kahi kabeer taa kaa ant na paar.

Brother, 
if it could be helpful somehow, following is some information which I found on the net and would like to share with the sangat here.
 
Different words for the same and different ideas. Ekankar is a simplified version of other
words which can also have slightly different meanings and across different teachings.
This post is a bit rough and covers a lot of ground. However given the refs and the subject matter I think it's still worth posting. Someone might find it just the ticket one day for their own research.
I suppose and title could be "don;t make rash assumptions. Ideas come from Knowledge, both inner and outer imho, in balance. Helps to get the basic knowledge accurate first, as hard as that can be sometimes. Wrong information leads to premature and incorrect conclusions.
During the time of Nanak and the establishment of Sikhism various languages and semantics
developed for the symbol ? , pronounced Ek Onkar, is the symbol that is used to represents the
"One Supreme Reality" or "One God."
Ik Onkar (Gurmukhi: ?, ??? ??????; Ikk Oankar Punjabi pronunciation: [?k? o??ka?]) is the
symbol that represents the One Supreme Reality and is a central tenet of Sikh religious
philosophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ik_Onkar
It has been represented as, or confused with, variant phrases such as:
Ik Onkar,
Ik Ong Kar,
Ik Oankaar,
Ek Oankar,
Ek Oankaar,
Ek Aumkaar,
Ek Onkar,
Ek Ong Kar,
Ek Om Kar,
EK-ANKAR,
Ekankar,
Ekankaar,
Ekangkar,
Ekanakar and others.
These words don't necessarily mean the same thing, and can vary in meaning in different contexts.
But Marman suggests in his book:
"Sukhmani should be of particular interest to modern day followers of Eckankar, Sant Mat, and
Radhasoami. The connection with Eckankar is especially strong. The Sukhmani opens with this
line: "Ek Onkar Sat Guru Prasad."
This means: "The One Reality - realized through the grace of the True Guru."
Some translations spell it this way: "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad."
http://spiritualdialogues.com/books/sukhmani-the-secret-of-inner-peace/
I can't see other translations spelling it that way. Though sometimes 'Ek Onkar' could be
spelled 'Ekankar' they don't use the latter in this mantra. However no one else except Marman seems to spell it that way, so it's probably not correct.
Search for this Marman phrase of "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad" (placing the "exact phrase" in
quotes) Google search which gives the following 6 results:
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q="Ekankar+Sat+Guru+Prasad"
See? No one except for Marman spells the phrase Ik Ong Kar or Ek Onkar as "Ekankar" in
the Sihk term:  "Ik Ong Kar Sat Gur Prasad" or "Ek Onkar Sat Guru Prasad"!!!
In fact the more common spelling today seems to be "Ek Ong Kar Sat Gur Prasad"
In Google it brings about 27,600 results
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q="Ek+Ong+Kar+Sat+Gur+Prasad"
Unless one has a good knowledge of various languages and faiths, it's best not to rush to fast
ahead. Many things that 'sound' similar may not be the very same thing, and so inaccurate
connections can be made where none exists.
---
The following may help to show how complex these words and meanings can be.
Another translation for 'Ek Onkar Sat Gur Prasad' goes:
"There is one Creator of all Creation.  All is a blessing of the One Creator.  This realization comes through Guru's Grace."
http://www.spiritvoyage.com/mantra/Ek-Ong-Kar-Sat-Gur-Prasad/MAN-000028.aspx
Guru Nanak spread a simple message of "Ek Ong Kar": we are all one, created by the "One
Creator of all Creation." This was at a time when India was being torn apart by castes,
sectarianism, religious factions, and fanaticism.
He aligned with no religion, and respected all religions. He expressed the reality that there
is one God and many paths, and the Name of God is Truth, "Sat Nam".
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gurudwara_Dashmesh_Darbar_Sahib#About_Sikhism
This symbol ? pronounced Ek Onkar is the symbol that is used to represent the "One Supreme
Reality" or "One God."
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Ek_Onkar
"Ek Oankaar" |? means There is only One God
Ek = One
There is but one God, the Sole Supreme Being, the Ultimate Reality.
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mool_Mantar
So in this primary sense Ik Ong Kar / Ek Onkar typically means: the Sole Supreme Being, or One
Supreme Reality, or One God, or the One Reality, or the Ultimate Reality, and One Creator of
all Creation.
So, basically this idea by Marman of "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad" isn't really correct at all.
Plus when Marman suggests: "The resemblance to Eckankar is no accident. Paul Twitchell derived the name for  his modern teaching from this phrase."
That claim too doesn't appear to stand up to investigation.
On Sikhnet they suggest Ekankar can mean something different:
"In this state He was Nirgun (without any attributes) or Nirankar (without any dimensional
manifestations).
"There is another representation of God in Nirgun state mentioned as Ekankar where singularity
of God is emphasised in mathematical sense. The numeral one or 1 or Ek Ank (eyk AMk) is used
as a representation of the oneness of God by calling transcendent God as Ekankar (eykMkwr).
"The numeral one or Ik signifies the formless (Nirankar) as Ekankar immediately prior to
ordering (Kawaao) or just before willing the creation of the physical universes.  
Bhai Gurdas elaborates this process of creation (Vaar 26.2)
"From the Nirankar (formless) state (He) moved towards the infinite Ekankar state.
 From this Ekankaar the Oankar syllable sound helped create shapes."
http://fateh.sikhnet.com//Sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/E7A41A235FC1861D87256BA10061A53E!
OpenDocument

Ek Oankar cosists of two components:
Numeral One (refered to as Ekankar in SGGS) e.g.
Prabh bhave ta kre visthar, Prabh bhave ta Ekankar.(Gauri Sukhmani)
Oora charachter with open top and hora attached (referred to as Oankar) as in the composition
Oankar in Ramkali Dakhani Rag.
The two components joined together in the Ek Oankar or Beej Mantar as it is called does not
simply mean God is one. This is too simplistic.
http://fateh.sikhnet.com//sikhnet/discussion.nsf/78f5a2ff8906d1788725657c00732d6c/E9F19F0D0D81E07587256CBD005A70AD!OpenDocument
---
One of Marman's sources for translations and Sikhism beliefs is
Prof Devinder Singh Chahal, PhD, Institute for Understanding Sikhism who says:
The symbol ?  it is pronounced by many Sikh theologians as 'Ek Oankaar' or 'Ek Aumkaar'
because they consider the open 'Oora' is the abbreviation of 'Oankaar' used in Gurbani.
Many Sikh scholars relate 'Oankaar' to 'Aum' according to Vedic and Vedantic philosophy.
This paper presents the findings of our continuous research into the meanings of the logo,
< , coined by Guru Nanak.
Here it has been fully documented that < stands for:
 'Ek Oh Beant' (One and Only, Oh, Infinite).
The first part # is generally pronounced by many Sikh
theologians and scholars as eyku EAMkwru (Ek Oankaar) or
eyku Emkwr (Ek Aumkaar).
To pronounce / as eyku EAMkwru or eykMkwru (Ek Oankaar
or Ekankaar) cannot be justified based on the fact that a
Bani at pages 929-938 in AGGS is entitled as EAMkwru
(Oankaar). If Guru Nanak can use EAMkwru in this Bani
then he would have used it also in the Commencing
Verse in place of / . Or # (Open Oora) could have
been used in place of EAMkwru in rest of the Bani, but it is
not so. Therefore, # (Open Oora) is entirely different
than EAMkwru (Oankaar) or EMmkwru (Aumkaar) in meaning
as well as in pronunciation. Besides / cannot be
pronounced as eyku EAMkwru or eykMkwru (Ek Oankaar or
Ekankaar) under any circumstances.
 
If anybody needs more information, this is the link :
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/8dhAk9F6-II
 
* The above presentation on the net is quite acceptable, yet if you ask my opinion, I would say, that Ikoankar means the one Creator Satnam, and while in Ikangkar, could very well be, The One, with one part /organ/limb, which is the Naad, the Shabad, the Nam, the Amrit Bani resounding throughout the creation, so the one with that Oneness, is none other than Waheguru Akal Purukh, so necessarily, it refers to that Primal Truth, the source of everything that exists throughout all the gross, subtle and spiritual realms, which is Satnam, as seen in the very begining in the Bani:
Ik Oankar Satnam.
 
SSA.

Brother, 
if it could be helpful somehow, following is some information which I found on the net and would like to share with the sangat here.
 
Different words for the same and different ideas. Ekankar is a simplified version of other
words which can also have slightly different meanings and across different teachings.
This post is a bit rough and covers a lot of ground. However given the refs and the subject matter I think it's still worth posting. Someone might find it just the ticket one day for their own research.
I suppose and title could be "don;t make rash assumptions. Ideas come from Knowledge, both inner and outer imho, in balance. Helps to get the basic knowledge accurate first, as hard as that can be sometimes. Wrong information leads to premature and incorrect conclusions.
During the time of Nanak and the establishment of Sikhism various languages and semantics
developed for the symbol ? , pronounced Ek Onkar, is the symbol that is used to represents the
"One Supreme Reality" or "One God."
Ik Onkar (Gurmukhi: ?, ??? ??????; Ikk Oankar Punjabi pronunciation: [?k? o??ka?]) is the
symbol that represents the One Supreme Reality and is a central tenet of Sikh religious
philosophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ik_Onkar
It has been represented as, or confused with, variant phrases such as:
Ik Onkar,
Ik Ong Kar,
Ik Oankaar,
Ek Oankar,
Ek Oankaar,
Ek Aumkaar,
Ek Onkar,
Ek Ong Kar,
Ek Om Kar,
EK-ANKAR,
Ekankar,
Ekankaar,
Ekangkar,
Ekanakar and others.
These words don't necessarily mean the same thing, and can vary in meaning in different contexts.
But Marman suggests in his book:
"Sukhmani should be of particular interest to modern day followers of Eckankar, Sant Mat, and
Radhasoami. The connection with Eckankar is especially strong. The Sukhmani opens with this
line: "Ek Onkar Sat Guru Prasad."
This means: "The One Reality - realized through the grace of the True Guru."
Some translations spell it this way: "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad."
http://spiritualdialogues.com/books/sukhmani-the-secret-of-inner-peace/
I can't see other translations spelling it that way. Though sometimes 'Ek Onkar' could be
spelled 'Ekankar' they don't use the latter in this mantra. However no one else except Marman seems to spell it that way, so it's probably not correct.
Search for this Marman phrase of "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad" (placing the "exact phrase" in
quotes) Google search which gives the following 6 results:
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q="Ekankar+Sat+Guru+Prasad"
See? No one except for Marman spells the phrase Ik Ong Kar or Ek Onkar as "Ekankar" in
the Sihk term:  "Ik Ong Kar Sat Gur Prasad" or "Ek Onkar Sat Guru Prasad"!!!
In fact the more common spelling today seems to be "Ek Ong Kar Sat Gur Prasad"
In Google it brings about 27,600 results
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q="Ek+Ong+Kar+Sat+Gur+Prasad"
Unless one has a good knowledge of various languages and faiths, it's best not to rush to fast
ahead. Many things that 'sound' similar may not be the very same thing, and so inaccurate
connections can be made where none exists.
---
The following may help to show how complex these words and meanings can be.
Another translation for 'Ek Onkar Sat Gur Prasad' goes:
"There is one Creator of all Creation.  All is a blessing of the One Creator.  This realization comes through Guru's Grace."
http://www.spiritvoyage.com/mantra/Ek-Ong-Kar-Sat-Gur-Prasad/MAN-000028.aspx
Guru Nanak spread a simple message of "Ek Ong Kar": we are all one, created by the "One
Creator of all Creation." This was at a time when India was being torn apart by castes,
sectarianism, religious factions, and fanaticism.
He aligned with no religion, and respected all religions. He expressed the reality that there
is one God and many paths, and the Name of God is Truth, "Sat Nam".
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Gurudwara_Dashmesh_Darbar_Sahib#About_Sikhism
This symbol ? pronounced Ek Onkar is the symbol that is used to represent the "One Supreme
Reality" or "One God."
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Ek_Onkar
"Ek Oankaar" |? means There is only One God
Ek = One
There is but one God, the Sole Supreme Being, the Ultimate Reality.
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mool_Mantar
So in this primary sense Ik Ong Kar / Ek Onkar typically means: the Sole Supreme Being, or One
Supreme Reality, or One God, or the One Reality, or the Ultimate Reality, and One Creator of
all Creation.
So, basically this idea by Marman of "Ekankar Sat Guru Prasad" isn't really correct at all.
Plus when Marman suggests: "The resemblance to Eckankar is no accident. Paul Twitchell derived the name for  his modern teaching from this phrase."
That claim too doesn't appear to stand up to investigation.
On Sikhnet they suggest Ekankar can mean something different:
"In this state He was Nirgun (without any attributes) or Nirankar (without any dimensional
manifestations).
"There is another representation of God in Nirgun state mentioned as Ekankar where singularity
of God is emphasised in mathematical sense. The numeral one or 1 or Ek Ank (eyk AMk) is used
as a representation of the oneness of God by calling transcendent God as Ekankar (eykMkwr).
"The numeral one or Ik signifies the formless (Nirankar) as Ekankar immediately prior to
ordering (Kawaao) or just before willing the creation of the physical universes.  
Bhai Gurdas elaborates this process of creation (Vaar 26.2)
"From the Nirankar (formless) state (He) moved towards the infinite Ekankar state.
 From this Ekankaar the Oankar syllable sound helped create shapes."
http://fateh.sikhnet.com//Sikhnet/discussion.nsf/SearchView/E7A41A235FC1861D87256BA10061A53E!
OpenDocument

Ek Oankar cosists of two components:
Numeral One (refered to as Ekankar in SGGS) e.g.
Prabh bhave ta kre visthar, Prabh bhave ta Ekankar.(Gauri Sukhmani)
Oora charachter with open top and hora attached (referred to as Oankar) as in the composition
Oankar in Ramkali Dakhani Rag.
The two components joined together in the Ek Oankar or Beej Mantar as it is called does not
simply mean God is one. This is too simplistic.
http://fateh.sikhnet.com//sikhnet/discussion.nsf/78f5a2ff8906d1788725657c00732d6c/E9F19F0D0D81E07587256CBD005A70AD!OpenDocument
---
One of Marman's sources for translations and Sikhism beliefs is
Prof Devinder Singh Chahal, PhD, Institute for Understanding Sikhism who says:
The symbol ?  it is pronounced by many Sikh theologians as 'Ek Oankaar' or 'Ek Aumkaar'
because they consider the open 'Oora' is the abbreviation of 'Oankaar' used in Gurbani.
Many Sikh scholars relate 'Oankaar' to 'Aum' according to Vedic and Vedantic philosophy.
This paper presents the findings of our continuous research into the meanings of the logo,
< , coined by Guru Nanak.
Here it has been fully documented that < stands for:
 'Ek Oh Beant' (One and Only, Oh, Infinite).
The first part # is generally pronounced by many Sikh
theologians and scholars as eyku EAMkwru (Ek Oankaar) or
eyku Emkwr (Ek Aumkaar).
To pronounce / as eyku EAMkwru or eykMkwru (Ek Oankaar
or Ekankaar) cannot be justified based on the fact that a
Bani at pages 929-938 in AGGS is entitled as EAMkwru
(Oankaar). If Guru Nanak can use EAMkwru in this Bani
then he would have used it also in the Commencing
Verse in place of / . Or # (Open Oora) could have
been used in place of EAMkwru in rest of the Bani, but it is
not so. Therefore, # (Open Oora) is entirely different
than EAMkwru (Oankaar) or EMmkwru (Aumkaar) in meaning
as well as in pronunciation. Besides / cannot be
pronounced as eyku EAMkwru or eykMkwru (Ek Oankaar or
Ekankaar) under any circumstances.
 
If anybody needs more information, this is the link :
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/8dhAk9F6-II
 
* The above presentation on the net is quite acceptable, yet if you ask my opinion, I would say, that Ikoankar means the one Creator Satnam, and while in Ikangkar, could very well be, The One, with one part /organ/limb, which is the Naad, the Shabad, the Nam, the Amrit Bani resounding throughout the creation, so the one with that Oneness, is none other than Waheguru Akal Purukh, so necessarily, it refers to that Primal Truth, the source of everything that exists throughout all the gross, subtle and spiritual realms, which is Satnam, as seen in the very begining in the Bani:
Ik Oankar Satnam.
 
SSA.

@zereraz Veer ji dass is really happy and proud to have you as a fellow member on this great site for which i would like to welcome you.
 
Here is a thread dass made in connection to the thread you made
 

Dass is really happy to see you as a member on here as this website is like a second home for me. Dass is glad to share as there not many people who want to learn about simran and the stages linked with it. 
 
Its really good veer ji that this site helped build up your simran and concentration as its really hard to find the right sangat especially on the message boards like this site.
 
Dass will also liked to recommend a few books on bhagati and simran by Bhai Ragbir Singh Ji Bir such as Bandgi Nama they have written a lot about this subject.
 
Here is a few more links with good book lists
 
 

Thank you so much for the beautiful message filled with blessings, love and gyaan. You are absolutely correct in every line that you said. May we all keep getting more Naam daan.
You are exactly right about deep love, may it keep growing and we jaap naam with more and more love. As you said he is more eager, Bhai Gurdas Ji had these beautiful lines
 
 
Akal Sahai
 
Thank you so much for welcoming me here on this great site and linking the thread, will go over all the gyaan. Will keep adding more info as I learn.
 
This forum helped me since past many months when I was beginning my practical journey, many of this Sangat's past posts helped me in the journey and will remain ever grateful.
Guru Ki Saji Nivaji Guru Khalsa Roop Pyaari Sadh Sangat Ji Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

zereraz Bro,
your post above is amazing, you have proven that with enthusiasm, determination and persistance , the highest of goals can be achieved, the thing is in doing it.
Well, I am very much glad for you, may Waheguru bless you and you go still further and farther, until merging in Him.
You see, when I said deep love for Him, i did not meant to understimate you in any way, but I meant wanting Hm alone above and before anything, that is it.
Do not worry nor be in a haste for any visible progress, but just pray to Him to guide you towards Him, and bless you stay in His bhaana at all times.
I have herad, that He is more eager to give Himself to us, than we wanting Him, so just trust Him, and remain as a kookar at His door with your love and devotion, without expecting anything, for He knows best what, when and whom to give, our main preocupation is to keep checking ourselves that we have not got derailed from the path of bhakti.
As it is said, if we believe He has the power to give, that it is also true, He also knows whta and when to give, it is only we have to remain receptive to His grace.
So, what is to remain receptive to His grace or kirpa?
It is in trying to please Him with that what He most likes.
So what is that He likes most?
As per Bani, it is to constantly remember Him through His simran,  apart from doing daily meditative practices of His simran.
You are right, Gurbani is a practical manual of instructions so to say, for efficiently loving Him and reuniting our surtees with Him.
Any praises of Gurbani are just limited and poor expressions, the beauty of Gurbani can only be felt, when we devoutly workout as per its pure and undiluted teachings,  as seen in the following verse
"JIN HAR JAPEEYA SE HAR HOEEYA"
Stay blessed.
SSA.
 
 
 

zereraz Bro,
your post above is amazing, you have proven that with enthusiasm, determination and persistance , the highest of goals can be achieved, the thing is in doing it.
Well, I am very much glad for you, may Waheguru bless you and you go still further and farther, until merging in Him.
You see, when I said deep love for Him, i did not meant to understimate you in any way, but I meant wanting Hm alone above and before anything, that is it.
Do not worry nor be in a haste for any visible progress, but just pray to Him to guide you towards Him, and bless you stay in His bhaana at all times.
I have herad, that He is more eager to give Himself to us, than we wanting Him, so just trust Him, and remain as a kookar at His door with your love and devotion, without expecting anything, for He knows best what, when and whom to give, our main preocupation is to keep checking ourselves that we have not got derailed from the path of bhakti.
As it is said, if we believe He has the power to give, that it is also true, He also knows whta and when to give, it is only we have to remain receptive to His grace.
So, what is to remain receptive to His grace or kirpa?
It is in trying to please Him with that what He most likes.
So what is that He likes most?
As per Bani, it is to constantly remember Him through His simran,  apart from doing daily meditative practices of His simran.
You are right, Gurbani is a practical manual of instructions so to say, for efficiently loving Him and reuniting our surtees with Him.
Any praises of Gurbani are just limited and poor expressions, the beauty of Gurbani can only be felt, when we devoutly workout as per its pure and undiluted teachings,  as seen in the following verse
"JIN HAR JAPEEYA SE HAR HOEEYA"
Stay blessed.
SSA.
 
 
 

I agree with blind faith, simply loving and doing naam simran is best and supreme but don't just assume I'm talking about simply dreaming and astral world.
I'm trying to follow Gurbani but using the interesting interpretation or khulasa done by Bhai Sewa Singh, I hear what he says, he quotes Bani and he is not talking about dreams and visions, that is all. 
There is only Truth, only Oneness, only Akal Purakh, yes all is within Hukum, high lows all him, even you writing and me writing all comes from+within+by Waheguru.
Many people with blind faith may have incorrect idea about Akal Purakh, when Gurus and Gursikhs were literally able to see him Hadra Hadoor(nirakar, not saying some image here), all around and do Bhakti there what is even blind faith when one can see, hear nothing but Waheguru and I do not believe Sikhi talks about just blind faith but talks about experiencing Waheguru while alive and get out of reincarnation(equivalent to merging with Akal Purakh), but I'm new to most of this so can be wrong. I do believe Sikhi is practical, experiential and not only does one know by "Gyaan" and bhakti that this is illusion but also experientially.
 
SSA
 

So I'm practicing daily, made early gains in terms of various experiences in meditation, even if one thinks they are far away I believe most just haven't tried it properly, so I'd recommend daily before sleep(or power nap) just trying to relax body(like really do it, little by little keep relaxing), dhyan state can only come from doing naam simran(breath + chanting) and listening to yourself(like minds ears, eventually some of the 5 shabads come here) otherwise there is no dhyan, beat the stage of thoughts, it maybe your breathing itself that might distract you, do it per breath with concentration and as you keep relaxing your body will fall asleep(it is astonishing and various Anand's can be felt which will feel unreal and amazing). Also I didn't read about this on the internet or from anyone this was an awakening experiences where I randomly meditated for 6+ hours(without simran, didn't know much about it) where I learnt that this was real and then saw 7-8 months later Bhai Simranjeet Singh talking about this as the right thing to do(a vidhi, technique), to me it is like Akaal Purakh waking me up from deep manmukh slumber, I was also able to sleep like 2 hours and wake up refreshed but eventually due to no naam simran I lost the avastha.
I've experienced and witnessed my own body fixing itself(rare times painful to watch it stitch parts damaged in gym), quite blissful experience overall and makes it easy to do naam simran even at night(and now understand how 8 pehar is actually possible but so hard and intense, only in deep true love will one do it like that).
 
I'm sorry but I do not agree here, I'm not trying to get Riddhi, Siddhi here, from what I have understood what Bhai Sewa Singh has disclosed using only gurbani is that we daily leave our bodies(I'm sure everyone here knows about Dasam Dwaar), and we may even get instructions there, drink amrit(hence mind wakes up refreshed), even rehras can be looked at finding the path back to where our mind enters body every day. So if you daily leave your body and daily come back only issue here is bhakti is low so we forget or drown in thoughts. The path here is to do 8 pehar naam simran or however max and this itself will take the mind to the gate of dasam dwaar and eventually there is prakash, none of this is outside hukum and I'd even argue this is the best karam, to wait outside the dasam dwaar outside thoughts, vichaar(given by 5 thieves), dhyaan always at feet of waheguru doing naam simran until there is prakash. Humai is significantly reduced so you do not want Riddhi Siddhi, there is barely you, like water in milk your mind slowly instead of feeling like a point in our head feels like immersed in something and can't point where it is/you are.
I just haven't reached the prakash stage, real hukum according to me is to not forget what happened when your mind left and came back, what was the dhyan related experience of begumpura and not to go into random dreams by kaal(thanks to 5 thieves).
Of course I'm new to all this, 1-2 years max, been researching many religions(left atheism and to spirituality) until realized what Sikhi itself was actually talking about, all practical from my current understanding and love it.
 
Only bhakti, only purify mind, remove humai as that itself is false hood, agreed about deep love for lotus feet, I've not reached deep love state but I've been able to reach sehaj and do naam simran with some love as of now, I want the love to increase, even fear to be remembered. All that can and does happen is within Hukum and up to Waheguru.
 
Yes I agree with what you said, I do not want astral projection as well just to not get caught up in dreams of kaal, agreed about messages in dreams want to retain it more due to naam simran one is ever present and aware, to actually remember where the mind went while doing naam simran and if possible take it to the right path while doing bhagti not having desires for any supernatural or cool experience, no haumai, vichaar. Yes craving experiences is bad and I did learn it the hard way but listening to shabads during meditation did enhance my experience, my aim is to only follow Gurbani nothing else.
Thank you all for responding 🙏

Sat Sri Akal