das

Paapimaan's point is that - Explicit language does not mean that it is solely for "entertainment".
He is saying that there is explicit language in Gurbani yet the purpose is to explain something deeper.
And that this is also what Charitropakhyan is doing but instead of spiritual concepts, it covers wordly concepts.
Did I understand it correctly?
Indeed they won't so don't give them any attention. "What you resist persists"

Instead focus on discussion of material in Charitropakhyan and how it is relevant to  today's society.

Talk about the deeper meanings in Charitropakhyan and in what situations that story or message might be helpful.

Ps also that would create a space for people, who are not familiar with the material, to dig their hands into.

Does it mean that tenth Guru have established an institution which will give benefit to whosoever follows it (even on physical level) but will NOT give that kind of benefit to those who do not follow them?
Isn't this like Christianity who says that whosoever follows Jesus Christ won't have to go to Hell because Jesus have paid for their sins?
Actually, as per my understanding, there is some truth to what pappiman has mentioned.
e.g A person has taken Khanda Da Amrit and then did not follow anything Spititually and ended up doing lot of bad karams. Then the thing is that: His/Her Guru will not allow that person to go to Hell or will not allow the beating along the path to Dharamraj but he/she has to pay for his/her bad deeds via human birth in bad environment (but still human birth with possibility of Spiritual growth). Sometimes, Guru DOES allow that person to go to Hell or force them to take birth in animal world but Guru will always cut short his animal births because he was follower of his faith. Bottom line is: Guru will lend HIS helping hand to the SOUL who has gone astray. Persons without Guru won't have that kind of cushion.
There are various Sakhis portraying that:
Sakhi-1: There was a Sikh of tenth Guru who was performing the duty of Parshad distribution in the sangat. One day, another Sikh of high Spiritual came to the Sangat to get parshad; he requested parshad in hurry but the dutyman said harshly "Why you're jumping like bear?" To this the other person picked the parshad from the ground and left. Now, when the dutyman left the world, he was born as bear. But after some time, the bear's life was cut short by GuruJi; thus displaying the power of Guru.
Also, remember, each Avatar has its own Heaven and the persons worshiping Him as God cannot go beyond the realm of that demi-God.
But some people take it too strictly saying that as they have taken Amrit, so they won't suffer and they are bound to get benefits. It's not that simple. Mind has to be purified before one can be with HIM, but at the same time the path to real God goes via Guru (and nothing else) and if you follow Guru, then you DO have some cushion because of it.
Think it from another point of view: What's the use of Guru if HE cannot help the Soul who has done bad deeds under the effect of Maya. But at the same time, even Guru cannot go against the law of karma but HE knows how to go around the karma for the sake of his pupil's Soul. At last, it is not black and white and cannot be explained in words.

Does it mean that tenth Guru have established an institution which will give benefit to whosoever follows it (even on physical level) but will NOT give that kind of benefit to those who do not follow them?
Isn't this like Christianity who says that whosoever follows Jesus Christ won't have to go to Hell because Jesus have paid for their sins?
Actually, as per my understanding, there is some truth to what pappiman has mentioned.
e.g A person has taken Khanda Da Amrit and then did not follow anything Spititually and ended up doing lot of bad karams. Then the thing is that: His/Her Guru will not allow that person to go to Hell or will not allow the beating along the path to Dharamraj but he/she has to pay for his/her bad deeds via human birth in bad environment (but still human birth with possibility of Spiritual growth). Sometimes, Guru DOES allow that person to go to Hell or force them to take birth in animal world but Guru will always cut short his animal births because he was follower of his faith. Bottom line is: Guru will lend HIS helping hand to the SOUL who has gone astray. Persons without Guru won't have that kind of cushion.
There are various Sakhis portraying that:
Sakhi-1: There was a Sikh of tenth Guru who was performing the duty of Parshad distribution in the sangat. One day, another Sikh of high Spiritual came to the Sangat to get parshad; he requested parshad in hurry but the dutyman said harshly "Why you're jumping like bear?" To this the other person picked the parshad from the ground and left. Now, when the dutyman left the world, he was born as bear. But after some time, the bear's life was cut short by GuruJi; thus displaying the power of Guru.
Also, remember, each Avatar has its own Heaven and the persons worshiping Him as God cannot go beyond the realm of that demi-God.
But some people take it too strictly saying that as they have taken Amrit, so they won't suffer and they are bound to get benefits. It's not that simple. Mind has to be purified before one can be with HIM, but at the same time the path to real God goes via Guru (and nothing else) and if you follow Guru, then you DO have some cushion because of it.
Think it from another point of view: What's the use of Guru if HE cannot help the Soul who has done bad deeds under the effect of Maya. But at the same time, even Guru cannot go against the law of karma but HE knows how to go around the karma for the sake of his pupil's Soul. At last, it is not black and white and cannot be explained in words.

Does it mean that tenth Guru have established an institution which will give benefit to whosoever follows it (even on physical level) but will NOT give that kind of benefit to those who do not follow them?
Isn't this like Christianity who says that whosoever follows Jesus Christ won't have to go to Hell because Jesus have paid for their sins?
Actually, as per my understanding, there is some truth to what pappiman has mentioned.
e.g A person has taken Khanda Da Amrit and then did not follow anything Spititually and ended up doing lot of bad karams. Then the thing is that: His/Her Guru will not allow that person to go to Hell or will not allow the beating along the path to Dharamraj but he/she has to pay for his/her bad deeds via human birth in bad environment (but still human birth with possibility of Spiritual growth). Sometimes, Guru DOES allow that person to go to Hell or force them to take birth in animal world but Guru will always cut short his animal births because he was follower of his faith. Bottom line is: Guru will lend HIS helping hand to the SOUL who has gone astray. Persons without Guru won't have that kind of cushion.
There are various Sakhis portraying that:
Sakhi-1: There was a Sikh of tenth Guru who was performing the duty of Parshad distribution in the sangat. One day, another Sikh of high Spiritual came to the Sangat to get parshad; he requested parshad in hurry but the dutyman said harshly "Why you're jumping like bear?" To this the other person picked the parshad from the ground and left. Now, when the dutyman left the world, he was born as bear. But after some time, the bear's life was cut short by GuruJi; thus displaying the power of Guru.
Also, remember, each Avatar has its own Heaven and the persons worshiping Him as God cannot go beyond the realm of that demi-God.
But some people take it too strictly saying that as they have taken Amrit, so they won't suffer and they are bound to get benefits. It's not that simple. Mind has to be purified before one can be with HIM, but at the same time the path to real God goes via Guru (and nothing else) and if you follow Guru, then you DO have some cushion because of it.
Think it from another point of view: What's the use of Guru if HE cannot help the Soul who has done bad deeds under the effect of Maya. But at the same time, even Guru cannot go against the law of karma but HE knows how to go around the karma for the sake of his pupil's Soul. At last, it is not black and white and cannot be explained in words.

As per my belief (based upon Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's audio deewan), "Waheguru" mantar was first uttered as "Satnaam Waheguru" by Nirankar Himself when Guru Nanak Dev Ji requested Him to give Him updesh during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's visit to Nirankar (when Guru Ji went to Vae river for 3 days). Nirankar then uttered the Moolmantar.
Again, this is my belief and your belief might differ based upon the your choice of source. But in general, its best to believe that source which have actually travelled instead of the one who just visited the Map (via books, history, scriptures) and not the real thing.
If you want to hear the deewan, then here is the link: It starts from around: 30.00 till 48.00:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_(Rara_Sahib_wale)/051-100/070--Sant.Isher.Singh.(Rara.Sahib.wale)--Sri.Guru.Nanak.Dev.Ji.da.Sachkhand.Jana.mp3

As per my belief (based upon Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's audio deewan), "Waheguru" mantar was first uttered as "Satnaam Waheguru" by Nirankar Himself when Guru Nanak Dev Ji requested Him to give Him updesh during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's visit to Nirankar (when Guru Ji went to Vae river for 3 days). Nirankar then uttered the Moolmantar.
Again, this is my belief and your belief might differ based upon the your choice of source. But in general, its best to believe that source which have actually travelled instead of the one who just visited the Map (via books, history, scriptures) and not the real thing.
If you want to hear the deewan, then here is the link: It starts from around: 30.00 till 48.00:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_(Rara_Sahib_wale)/051-100/070--Sant.Isher.Singh.(Rara.Sahib.wale)--Sri.Guru.Nanak.Dev.Ji.da.Sachkhand.Jana.mp3

As per my belief (based upon Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's audio deewan), "Waheguru" mantar was first uttered as "Satnaam Waheguru" by Nirankar Himself when Guru Nanak Dev Ji requested Him to give Him updesh during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's visit to Nirankar (when Guru Ji went to Vae river for 3 days). Nirankar then uttered the Moolmantar.
Again, this is my belief and your belief might differ based upon the your choice of source. But in general, its best to believe that source which have actually travelled instead of the one who just visited the Map (via books, history, scriptures) and not the real thing.
If you want to hear the deewan, then here is the link: It starts from around: 30.00 till 48.00:
http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Ishar_Singh_(Rara_Sahib_wale)/051-100/070--Sant.Isher.Singh.(Rara.Sahib.wale)--Sri.Guru.Nanak.Dev.Ji.da.Sachkhand.Jana.mp3

I don't why you equate jantar, tantar, mantar with dark forces.

Jantar - instrument
Tantar - method
Mantar - incantation

There is nothing inherently dark about those.

Please allow me to ask everyone on this topic this question:
Have any of you has any direct experience of Negative entities? Don't offer me any theory, if you happen to have any practical experience then please post.
The powerful ghosts (negative entities) are not easy to get rid of. Some times, it is important to get the help of higher Spiritual beings (Brahmgyanis/Sants) because they really know the root cause (karma relationship with associated person) and at the same time know the formula to get rid of that. Don't expect Love is going to help; even Path done without the formula (technique) will help only to some extent. Sometimes doing Path alone would lead you to higher Spiritual being who could really sort out the problem. So, Path and Prayers are must. Negative entities are attracted (via subtle smell) to persons who consume meat, liquor, and/or visit prostitutes, bad intentions etc........The reason is negative entities are more attracted to lower vibrations (smell being the lowest related to Earth component). Meeting a lost soul in immediate Astral world is NOT equivalent to real Ghosts with real powers. Menstruation blood has real Life force along with Signature which could be used for Negative reason. In ancient times (even these days) menstruation blood is used in rituals for some specific purposes (not so for positive). And it is nothing to do with pure/impure; it's about the life force. Same goes for Hairs, Salvia, and nails etc......if one can acquire any of these for another person, then it's very easy to do Black Tantar........even Metaphysics does this via: Radionics, Bio-Photon analyzer and count less other techniques.  At last, Evil eye is NOT equivalent to Ghost, those are different things. Secondly, in our immediate environment, there are lot of Negative as well as Positive entities but Spritual Science Foundation has exaggerated this so much that you'll start thinking about them everyday, which will lead you to further attract negative forces because you're attracting them by thinking about them.
Best option is continue the Meditation path; there are lot of things in this world and it is NOT necessary for us to know everything about them. 

All of the above mentioned keywords are the names of the powers of Maya/Illusion. These powers are the sole reason for our sufferings.
Powers of Maya/Illusion
Mal/Filth: It's job is to show something different. Due to previous and this birth's bad deeds Mind gets attracted to bad deeds and questions the existence of GOD. It creates Rag-Dvesh (attachment, and hatred) towards certain things. In order words, when water is mixed with filth, we cannot see our face in water. i.e we cannot clearly see the reality. It is a power which introduces illusion. e.g this is world. Vikshape/Poison: It's responsibility is to create a change in the thing that Mal showed so that mind feels happiness or sadness. It is a power due to which different types of thoughts rise in Mind and gives sorrow. e.g Janam, maran, dukh, sukh etc. In other words, thoughts creates ripples in water and therefore, we cannot see ourselves in water. Because of these thoughts Mind never stay one-pointed. Avaran/Veil: It's responsibility is to hide the original thing. It is power which hides the original thing which is GOD. It does not allow us to see the reality.e.g- just like when someone puts a bucket upside down on lit candle, room which had light before is dark now because of bucket which is put upside down. In other words, when mirror is covered with curtain, then we cannot see ourselves. So, bottom line is: Avaran has hidden the truth (Atma/Soul) and Mal has showed this world and eventually Vikshape confirms this world is truth and creates happiness and sadness.
How to Get Rid of Mal/Vikshape/Avaran
Sants/Mahapurashs/Gurus have also shown us the way to get rid of these 3 powers: These are Karma, Upsana, and Gyan.
Karma (Purity of Mind): The first power of Maya i.e Mal/Filth could be removed by Karma/Actions. Purity of mind is achieved by staying away from filthy deeds like alcohol, meat, someone else's woman or man, gambling, stealing, lying, betraying, bribery, etc. and by investing in good, honest actions. Be charitable, take bath at ambrosial hours to keep body and mind clean and pure, do positive selfless service (sewa), practice restraint in sex. Upsana/Worship (Concentration of Mind): The second power of Maya i.e Vikshape/Poison could be removed by Upsana. When mind is purified, then the desire for concentration arises in mind. One-pointedness of Mind is achieved through worship with full concentration so that mind does not create ripples (thoughts) to disturb us. The concentration is achieved by devotion and worship. It could also be achieved through Meditation/Simran. One should always concentrate on his/her Guru and do meditation of Gur-Mantar. Gyan (Knowledge): The last power of Maya i.e Avaran/Veil could be removed by Gyan (NOT the normal knowledge obtained from reading Scriptures, books etc.). It is the Brahmgyan given by the Guru only. When the search of Self is done with purity and concentration of mind, one realises that the same God that once appeared as separate is one's own; in fact the entire universe appears to be one. The scene and the witness both appear to be one. Duality completely disappears and only One prevails. It is Not possible to gain Gyan/Knowledge without Guru. But we do Not have to search for Guru because as per God's Law, Guru will appear itself once we have removed the first two powers of Maya i.e once our mind is pure and steady (one-pointed). -------------------------------------------
If you need more information on these topics, you might find the following topics related to Mal/Vikshape/Avaran helpful and in more detailed with examples:
Why we cannot see God: http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/19
Maya/Illusions and its Powers: http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/20
Crux of All Religions:  http://satgur.net/Articles/Spiritual/35

The 3 types of bhuds mentioned here are given as examples. There are not name centric, they are based off the examples. Please read below for more information.
Sants/Mahapurashs always give examples so that a common man can understand.
Namda (Thick bhud): If a needle is inserted into a cotton ball (namda) then a hole will be created but as soon as the needle is taken out, the hole will be gone. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and during that time their Mind will have the effect but as soon as they leave the Spiritual discourse, they will revert back to their previous deeds forgetting what was taught to them in the Spiritual discourse. But they are still better than who never came to Spiritual discourses. They are just starters on Spiritual path. It could be understood as the "Dull headed". Chamra (Leather bhud): If a needle is inserted into leather (chamra), then a hole will be created and when the needle is taken out, the hole will still be present but it won't increase in size. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and then they just do what was taught to them in the discourse but they do NOT take it further. It could be understood as "Intelligent". Talika (Oil): If a drop of oil (tail) is thrown on the water, then that one drop will spread out on the very large area of water. In other words, people who attend Spiritual discourse and then that Spiritual discourse acts as a starter for them and they start on the Spiritual path; just like the oil drop spread on the water. It could be understood as "Extra Intelligent". Sants/Mahapurash also present the above mentioned Bhuds/Bhagats/Adekare/Jegasu in many different ways:
Kanist (Beginners) : Who is leaving bad karmas and moving into good karams. Madham (Medium): Who has moved further in Spiritual state and does Upasna/worship of God. Utam (Top level): Whose mind is one-pointed and only avaran dosh is left. Or
Stone bhudi: If stone is put into water, then it would be wet when it is imersed in water. If it is pulled out of water and placed in sun, then it would become dry soon. First type of bhud. Sponge bhudi: If sponge/foam is imersed in water and then taken out. Then this sponge will retain the water for much longer than the stone but eventually it will become dry in sun. Gur bhudi: If Gur/Jaggery/Suger is imersed in water, then after some time it will be dissolved in water and then no-longer it could be separated from the water. This is 3rd kind of bhud. Basically all the above mentioned examples represent the same concept of 3 different types of Spiritual people.
Similarly according to three types of bhuds, there are also 3 kinds of Bachan in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In other words, all 3 types of people would find the bachans as per their state:
Bhanak: For those (Namda bhud) who don't know about the reason for human birth and do bad deeds. Bhanak Bani instructs them to some to humanity. Roahak : For those (Chama bhud) who did path/worship, but still their mind does not become one-pointed. Rochak Bani defines the powers of Naam Simran, profits of doing Bhagati in order to uplift their curiosity. Yathrath: For those (Talika bhud) whose mind has become one-pointed. Yathrath Bani breaks the avaran dosh. i.e Yathrath Bani is the Brahmgyan but it could be perceived correctly only by Talika bhud people.  

The 3 types of bhuds mentioned here are given as examples. There are not name centric, they are based off the examples. Please read below for more information.
Sants/Mahapurashs always give examples so that a common man can understand.
Namda (Thick bhud): If a needle is inserted into a cotton ball (namda) then a hole will be created but as soon as the needle is taken out, the hole will be gone. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and during that time their Mind will have the effect but as soon as they leave the Spiritual discourse, they will revert back to their previous deeds forgetting what was taught to them in the Spiritual discourse. But they are still better than who never came to Spiritual discourses. They are just starters on Spiritual path. It could be understood as the "Dull headed". Chamra (Leather bhud): If a needle is inserted into leather (chamra), then a hole will be created and when the needle is taken out, the hole will still be present but it won't increase in size. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and then they just do what was taught to them in the discourse but they do NOT take it further. It could be understood as "Intelligent". Talika (Oil): If a drop of oil (tail) is thrown on the water, then that one drop will spread out on the very large area of water. In other words, people who attend Spiritual discourse and then that Spiritual discourse acts as a starter for them and they start on the Spiritual path; just like the oil drop spread on the water. It could be understood as "Extra Intelligent". Sants/Mahapurash also present the above mentioned Bhuds/Bhagats/Adekare/Jegasu in many different ways:
Kanist (Beginners) : Who is leaving bad karmas and moving into good karams. Madham (Medium): Who has moved further in Spiritual state and does Upasna/worship of God. Utam (Top level): Whose mind is one-pointed and only avaran dosh is left. Or
Stone bhudi: If stone is put into water, then it would be wet when it is imersed in water. If it is pulled out of water and placed in sun, then it would become dry soon. First type of bhud. Sponge bhudi: If sponge/foam is imersed in water and then taken out. Then this sponge will retain the water for much longer than the stone but eventually it will become dry in sun. Gur bhudi: If Gur/Jaggery/Suger is imersed in water, then after some time it will be dissolved in water and then no-longer it could be separated from the water. This is 3rd kind of bhud. Basically all the above mentioned examples represent the same concept of 3 different types of Spiritual people.
Similarly according to three types of bhuds, there are also 3 kinds of Bachan in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In other words, all 3 types of people would find the bachans as per their state:
Bhanak: For those (Namda bhud) who don't know about the reason for human birth and do bad deeds. Bhanak Bani instructs them to some to humanity. Roahak : For those (Chama bhud) who did path/worship, but still their mind does not become one-pointed. Rochak Bani defines the powers of Naam Simran, profits of doing Bhagati in order to uplift their curiosity. Yathrath: For those (Talika bhud) whose mind has become one-pointed. Yathrath Bani breaks the avaran dosh. i.e Yathrath Bani is the Brahmgyan but it could be perceived correctly only by Talika bhud people.  

How many of us have studied this so-called Astrology?
In short:
- Astrology canNOT lead to higher Spiritual state.
- But higher Spiritual state would bring the knowledge of Astrology.
e.g My Mom has NOT studied a single line of astrology but with her Spiritual state, she sometimes could tell the other person's question by casually reading their hand or by merely looking into eyes. While I've studied many different so-called sciences including astrology but I usually checks those topics with her.
Whosoever is saying that Astrology has no place in Sikhism have NOT understood the working of this place/universe. At the same time who are saying that Astrology is very good and one should very actively pursue for it are also wrong. Lucky has mentioned correctly that finding a genuine astrologer is very hard; but it doesn't mean there is none or there is nothing in astrology.
Why Astrology is everywhere?
Everything in this whole universe is based of the planets.
1. Moon is the nearest planet (in astrology it is considered as planet by major systems) to Earth and one could easily see the effect of Moon on Sea levels during full moon. And our body is around 80% water. Then tell me if Moon could produce tides in the sea, then why it cannot produce effects on human body. Be practical.
2. Even the Ida and Pingala are governed by Solar and Lunar forces. How could you say that Sikhism is against astrology.
3. All the body organs are governed by various planets.
4. First study astrology in full details and then you'll be start connecting the dots that sometimes you're doing the things as suggested by the plantary forces but you do it unconsciously (or say that your Guru/God are making you do that).
5. In other to move up the Spiritual levels, there are 7/Seven steps/bomika and that reference to seven planets. Remember seven planets, seven chakra, seven, this whole play is: Seven planets handle 12 zodiac signs (3 principles * 4 elements).
Correct statement would be Sikhs do NOT pursue astrology for the selfish means. A real Sikh should be like "Bhana mitha mane (Whatever God wills is good and accepts it)". But keep in mind that all medicines (including homeopathic, accupressure, marma, allopathy, any other energtic medicines) are also going against HIS will (or say trying to fight against your own previous karma). Also, if someone is offering you the medicine, then by refusing the medicine you're also going against HIS will. It's not black and white, it is highly complex.
At last, paapiman, it's NOT that simple that astrology is good and one should look for good astrologers. Firstly, there are so many branches of this science: Laal/Red Kitab, Tantar/Black book, Vedic Astrology, Chaldean astrology, Palmistry, Yantars, Seals and countless other branches. On top of that it is business these days, it is very rare to find the good astrologer.
Also, keep in mind that if a astrologer is telling you any remedy involving any bad effect on anyone, then you'll be responsible for the associated karma. But certain things like: Bury coconut or some til/seasome seed with oil etc. are supposed to have good effect because basically you're providing the food to many insects etc.
Again, most of the time, you're bound to fail because these days most of the astrologers are into business or using some forceful black remedies; both of which will be bad for you.
Rest is upto you. There are some Shabads which could help you if you need some support: Sankat Mochan etc. The safest bet would be Prayer from Heart.

Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji knew about the massacre of partition that was going to happen. He asked God to delay it so that he did not have to witness it during his Earthly Period.The same story was cross-checked by Baba Harnam Singh Rampur Kheda who had a vision of Baba Nand Singh Ji delaying the events that were supposed to happen earlier than 1947. 
Baba Nand Singh Ji asked many devotees to move their lands from one area to current punjab or settle down somewhere else. Some of them listened and some of them did not. Sants never reveal the true plan of God. Even when they know the plan, they do not interfere a lot in the happenings. Guru ji was antaryami but he never revealed the incidents or changed the course of events.

How many of us have studied this so-called Astrology?
In short:
- Astrology canNOT lead to higher Spiritual state.
- But higher Spiritual state would bring the knowledge of Astrology.
e.g My Mom has NOT studied a single line of astrology but with her Spiritual state, she sometimes could tell the other person's question by casually reading their hand or by merely looking into eyes. While I've studied many different so-called sciences including astrology but I usually checks those topics with her.
Whosoever is saying that Astrology has no place in Sikhism have NOT understood the working of this place/universe. At the same time who are saying that Astrology is very good and one should very actively pursue for it are also wrong. Lucky has mentioned correctly that finding a genuine astrologer is very hard; but it doesn't mean there is none or there is nothing in astrology.
Why Astrology is everywhere?
Everything in this whole universe is based of the planets.
1. Moon is the nearest planet (in astrology it is considered as planet by major systems) to Earth and one could easily see the effect of Moon on Sea levels during full moon. And our body is around 80% water. Then tell me if Moon could produce tides in the sea, then why it cannot produce effects on human body. Be practical.
2. Even the Ida and Pingala are governed by Solar and Lunar forces. How could you say that Sikhism is against astrology.
3. All the body organs are governed by various planets.
4. First study astrology in full details and then you'll be start connecting the dots that sometimes you're doing the things as suggested by the plantary forces but you do it unconsciously (or say that your Guru/God are making you do that).
5. In other to move up the Spiritual levels, there are 7/Seven steps/bomika and that reference to seven planets. Remember seven planets, seven chakra, seven, this whole play is: Seven planets handle 12 zodiac signs (3 principles * 4 elements).
Correct statement would be Sikhs do NOT pursue astrology for the selfish means. A real Sikh should be like "Bhana mitha mane (Whatever God wills is good and accepts it)". But keep in mind that all medicines (including homeopathic, accupressure, marma, allopathy, any other energtic medicines) are also going against HIS will (or say trying to fight against your own previous karma). Also, if someone is offering you the medicine, then by refusing the medicine you're also going against HIS will. It's not black and white, it is highly complex.
At last, paapiman, it's NOT that simple that astrology is good and one should look for good astrologers. Firstly, there are so many branches of this science: Laal/Red Kitab, Tantar/Black book, Vedic Astrology, Chaldean astrology, Palmistry, Yantars, Seals and countless other branches. On top of that it is business these days, it is very rare to find the good astrologer.
Also, keep in mind that if a astrologer is telling you any remedy involving any bad effect on anyone, then you'll be responsible for the associated karma. But certain things like: Bury coconut or some til/seasome seed with oil etc. are supposed to have good effect because basically you're providing the food to many insects etc.
Again, most of the time, you're bound to fail because these days most of the astrologers are into business or using some forceful black remedies; both of which will be bad for you.
Rest is upto you. There are some Shabads which could help you if you need some support: Sankat Mochan etc. The safest bet would be Prayer from Heart.

How many of us have studied this so-called Astrology?
In short:
- Astrology canNOT lead to higher Spiritual state.
- But higher Spiritual state would bring the knowledge of Astrology.
e.g My Mom has NOT studied a single line of astrology but with her Spiritual state, she sometimes could tell the other person's question by casually reading their hand or by merely looking into eyes. While I've studied many different so-called sciences including astrology but I usually checks those topics with her.
Whosoever is saying that Astrology has no place in Sikhism have NOT understood the working of this place/universe. At the same time who are saying that Astrology is very good and one should very actively pursue for it are also wrong. Lucky has mentioned correctly that finding a genuine astrologer is very hard; but it doesn't mean there is none or there is nothing in astrology.
Why Astrology is everywhere?
Everything in this whole universe is based of the planets.
1. Moon is the nearest planet (in astrology it is considered as planet by major systems) to Earth and one could easily see the effect of Moon on Sea levels during full moon. And our body is around 80% water. Then tell me if Moon could produce tides in the sea, then why it cannot produce effects on human body. Be practical.
2. Even the Ida and Pingala are governed by Solar and Lunar forces. How could you say that Sikhism is against astrology.
3. All the body organs are governed by various planets.
4. First study astrology in full details and then you'll be start connecting the dots that sometimes you're doing the things as suggested by the plantary forces but you do it unconsciously (or say that your Guru/God are making you do that).
5. In other to move up the Spiritual levels, there are 7/Seven steps/bomika and that reference to seven planets. Remember seven planets, seven chakra, seven, this whole play is: Seven planets handle 12 zodiac signs (3 principles * 4 elements).
Correct statement would be Sikhs do NOT pursue astrology for the selfish means. A real Sikh should be like "Bhana mitha mane (Whatever God wills is good and accepts it)". But keep in mind that all medicines (including homeopathic, accupressure, marma, allopathy, any other energtic medicines) are also going against HIS will (or say trying to fight against your own previous karma). Also, if someone is offering you the medicine, then by refusing the medicine you're also going against HIS will. It's not black and white, it is highly complex.
At last, paapiman, it's NOT that simple that astrology is good and one should look for good astrologers. Firstly, there are so many branches of this science: Laal/Red Kitab, Tantar/Black book, Vedic Astrology, Chaldean astrology, Palmistry, Yantars, Seals and countless other branches. On top of that it is business these days, it is very rare to find the good astrologer.
Also, keep in mind that if a astrologer is telling you any remedy involving any bad effect on anyone, then you'll be responsible for the associated karma. But certain things like: Bury coconut or some til/seasome seed with oil etc. are supposed to have good effect because basically you're providing the food to many insects etc.
Again, most of the time, you're bound to fail because these days most of the astrologers are into business or using some forceful black remedies; both of which will be bad for you.
Rest is upto you. There are some Shabads which could help you if you need some support: Sankat Mochan etc. The safest bet would be Prayer from Heart.

The 3 types of bhuds mentioned here are given as examples. There are not name centric, they are based off the examples. Please read below for more information.
Sants/Mahapurashs always give examples so that a common man can understand.
Namda (Thick bhud): If a needle is inserted into a cotton ball (namda) then a hole will be created but as soon as the needle is taken out, the hole will be gone. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and during that time their Mind will have the effect but as soon as they leave the Spiritual discourse, they will revert back to their previous deeds forgetting what was taught to them in the Spiritual discourse. But they are still better than who never came to Spiritual discourses. They are just starters on Spiritual path. It could be understood as the "Dull headed". Chamra (Leather bhud): If a needle is inserted into leather (chamra), then a hole will be created and when the needle is taken out, the hole will still be present but it won't increase in size. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and then they just do what was taught to them in the discourse but they do NOT take it further. It could be understood as "Intelligent". Talika (Oil): If a drop of oil (tail) is thrown on the water, then that one drop will spread out on the very large area of water. In other words, people who attend Spiritual discourse and then that Spiritual discourse acts as a starter for them and they start on the Spiritual path; just like the oil drop spread on the water. It could be understood as "Extra Intelligent". Sants/Mahapurash also present the above mentioned Bhuds/Bhagats/Adekare/Jegasu in many different ways:
Kanist (Beginners) : Who is leaving bad karmas and moving into good karams. Madham (Medium): Who has moved further in Spiritual state and does Upasna/worship of God. Utam (Top level): Whose mind is one-pointed and only avaran dosh is left. Or
Stone bhudi: If stone is put into water, then it would be wet when it is imersed in water. If it is pulled out of water and placed in sun, then it would become dry soon. First type of bhud. Sponge bhudi: If sponge/foam is imersed in water and then taken out. Then this sponge will retain the water for much longer than the stone but eventually it will become dry in sun. Gur bhudi: If Gur/Jaggery/Suger is imersed in water, then after some time it will be dissolved in water and then no-longer it could be separated from the water. This is 3rd kind of bhud. Basically all the above mentioned examples represent the same concept of 3 different types of Spiritual people.
Similarly according to three types of bhuds, there are also 3 kinds of Bachan in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In other words, all 3 types of people would find the bachans as per their state:
Bhanak: For those (Namda bhud) who don't know about the reason for human birth and do bad deeds. Bhanak Bani instructs them to some to humanity. Roahak : For those (Chama bhud) who did path/worship, but still their mind does not become one-pointed. Rochak Bani defines the powers of Naam Simran, profits of doing Bhagati in order to uplift their curiosity. Yathrath: For those (Talika bhud) whose mind has become one-pointed. Yathrath Bani breaks the avaran dosh. i.e Yathrath Bani is the Brahmgyan but it could be perceived correctly only by Talika bhud people.  

The 3 types of bhuds mentioned here are given as examples. There are not name centric, they are based off the examples. Please read below for more information.
Sants/Mahapurashs always give examples so that a common man can understand.
Namda (Thick bhud): If a needle is inserted into a cotton ball (namda) then a hole will be created but as soon as the needle is taken out, the hole will be gone. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and during that time their Mind will have the effect but as soon as they leave the Spiritual discourse, they will revert back to their previous deeds forgetting what was taught to them in the Spiritual discourse. But they are still better than who never came to Spiritual discourses. They are just starters on Spiritual path. It could be understood as the "Dull headed". Chamra (Leather bhud): If a needle is inserted into leather (chamra), then a hole will be created and when the needle is taken out, the hole will still be present but it won't increase in size. In other words, people who come to Spiritual discourses and then they just do what was taught to them in the discourse but they do NOT take it further. It could be understood as "Intelligent". Talika (Oil): If a drop of oil (tail) is thrown on the water, then that one drop will spread out on the very large area of water. In other words, people who attend Spiritual discourse and then that Spiritual discourse acts as a starter for them and they start on the Spiritual path; just like the oil drop spread on the water. It could be understood as "Extra Intelligent". Sants/Mahapurash also present the above mentioned Bhuds/Bhagats/Adekare/Jegasu in many different ways:
Kanist (Beginners) : Who is leaving bad karmas and moving into good karams. Madham (Medium): Who has moved further in Spiritual state and does Upasna/worship of God. Utam (Top level): Whose mind is one-pointed and only avaran dosh is left. Or
Stone bhudi: If stone is put into water, then it would be wet when it is imersed in water. If it is pulled out of water and placed in sun, then it would become dry soon. First type of bhud. Sponge bhudi: If sponge/foam is imersed in water and then taken out. Then this sponge will retain the water for much longer than the stone but eventually it will become dry in sun. Gur bhudi: If Gur/Jaggery/Suger is imersed in water, then after some time it will be dissolved in water and then no-longer it could be separated from the water. This is 3rd kind of bhud. Basically all the above mentioned examples represent the same concept of 3 different types of Spiritual people.
Similarly according to three types of bhuds, there are also 3 kinds of Bachan in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In other words, all 3 types of people would find the bachans as per their state:
Bhanak: For those (Namda bhud) who don't know about the reason for human birth and do bad deeds. Bhanak Bani instructs them to some to humanity. Roahak : For those (Chama bhud) who did path/worship, but still their mind does not become one-pointed. Rochak Bani defines the powers of Naam Simran, profits of doing Bhagati in order to uplift their curiosity. Yathrath: For those (Talika bhud) whose mind has become one-pointed. Yathrath Bani breaks the avaran dosh. i.e Yathrath Bani is the Brahmgyan but it could be perceived correctly only by Talika bhud people.  

How many of us have studied this so-called Astrology?
In short:
- Astrology canNOT lead to higher Spiritual state.
- But higher Spiritual state would bring the knowledge of Astrology.
e.g My Mom has NOT studied a single line of astrology but with her Spiritual state, she sometimes could tell the other person's question by casually reading their hand or by merely looking into eyes. While I've studied many different so-called sciences including astrology but I usually checks those topics with her.
Whosoever is saying that Astrology has no place in Sikhism have NOT understood the working of this place/universe. At the same time who are saying that Astrology is very good and one should very actively pursue for it are also wrong. Lucky has mentioned correctly that finding a genuine astrologer is very hard; but it doesn't mean there is none or there is nothing in astrology.
Why Astrology is everywhere?
Everything in this whole universe is based of the planets.
1. Moon is the nearest planet (in astrology it is considered as planet by major systems) to Earth and one could easily see the effect of Moon on Sea levels during full moon. And our body is around 80% water. Then tell me if Moon could produce tides in the sea, then why it cannot produce effects on human body. Be practical.
2. Even the Ida and Pingala are governed by Solar and Lunar forces. How could you say that Sikhism is against astrology.
3. All the body organs are governed by various planets.
4. First study astrology in full details and then you'll be start connecting the dots that sometimes you're doing the things as suggested by the plantary forces but you do it unconsciously (or say that your Guru/God are making you do that).
5. In other to move up the Spiritual levels, there are 7/Seven steps/bomika and that reference to seven planets. Remember seven planets, seven chakra, seven, this whole play is: Seven planets handle 12 zodiac signs (3 principles * 4 elements).
Correct statement would be Sikhs do NOT pursue astrology for the selfish means. A real Sikh should be like "Bhana mitha mane (Whatever God wills is good and accepts it)". But keep in mind that all medicines (including homeopathic, accupressure, marma, allopathy, any other energtic medicines) are also going against HIS will (or say trying to fight against your own previous karma). Also, if someone is offering you the medicine, then by refusing the medicine you're also going against HIS will. It's not black and white, it is highly complex.
At last, paapiman, it's NOT that simple that astrology is good and one should look for good astrologers. Firstly, there are so many branches of this science: Laal/Red Kitab, Tantar/Black book, Vedic Astrology, Chaldean astrology, Palmistry, Yantars, Seals and countless other branches. On top of that it is business these days, it is very rare to find the good astrologer.
Also, keep in mind that if a astrologer is telling you any remedy involving any bad effect on anyone, then you'll be responsible for the associated karma. But certain things like: Bury coconut or some til/seasome seed with oil etc. are supposed to have good effect because basically you're providing the food to many insects etc.
Again, most of the time, you're bound to fail because these days most of the astrologers are into business or using some forceful black remedies; both of which will be bad for you.
Rest is upto you. There are some Shabads which could help you if you need some support: Sankat Mochan etc. The safest bet would be Prayer from Heart.

How many of us have studied this so-called Astrology?
In short:
- Astrology canNOT lead to higher Spiritual state.
- But higher Spiritual state would bring the knowledge of Astrology.
e.g My Mom has NOT studied a single line of astrology but with her Spiritual state, she sometimes could tell the other person's question by casually reading their hand or by merely looking into eyes. While I've studied many different so-called sciences including astrology but I usually checks those topics with her.
Whosoever is saying that Astrology has no place in Sikhism have NOT understood the working of this place/universe. At the same time who are saying that Astrology is very good and one should very actively pursue for it are also wrong. Lucky has mentioned correctly that finding a genuine astrologer is very hard; but it doesn't mean there is none or there is nothing in astrology.
Why Astrology is everywhere?
Everything in this whole universe is based of the planets.
1. Moon is the nearest planet (in astrology it is considered as planet by major systems) to Earth and one could easily see the effect of Moon on Sea levels during full moon. And our body is around 80% water. Then tell me if Moon could produce tides in the sea, then why it cannot produce effects on human body. Be practical.
2. Even the Ida and Pingala are governed by Solar and Lunar forces. How could you say that Sikhism is against astrology.
3. All the body organs are governed by various planets.
4. First study astrology in full details and then you'll be start connecting the dots that sometimes you're doing the things as suggested by the plantary forces but you do it unconsciously (or say that your Guru/God are making you do that).
5. In other to move up the Spiritual levels, there are 7/Seven steps/bomika and that reference to seven planets. Remember seven planets, seven chakra, seven, this whole play is: Seven planets handle 12 zodiac signs (3 principles * 4 elements).
Correct statement would be Sikhs do NOT pursue astrology for the selfish means. A real Sikh should be like "Bhana mitha mane (Whatever God wills is good and accepts it)". But keep in mind that all medicines (including homeopathic, accupressure, marma, allopathy, any other energtic medicines) are also going against HIS will (or say trying to fight against your own previous karma). Also, if someone is offering you the medicine, then by refusing the medicine you're also going against HIS will. It's not black and white, it is highly complex.
At last, paapiman, it's NOT that simple that astrology is good and one should look for good astrologers. Firstly, there are so many branches of this science: Laal/Red Kitab, Tantar/Black book, Vedic Astrology, Chaldean astrology, Palmistry, Yantars, Seals and countless other branches. On top of that it is business these days, it is very rare to find the good astrologer.
Also, keep in mind that if a astrologer is telling you any remedy involving any bad effect on anyone, then you'll be responsible for the associated karma. But certain things like: Bury coconut or some til/seasome seed with oil etc. are supposed to have good effect because basically you're providing the food to many insects etc.
Again, most of the time, you're bound to fail because these days most of the astrologers are into business or using some forceful black remedies; both of which will be bad for you.
Rest is upto you. There are some Shabads which could help you if you need some support: Sankat Mochan etc. The safest bet would be Prayer from Heart.

I found this article (http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html) , it's really very interesting but long; and I know there are some people on this forum you would like to read such stuff even if it's long. So, just sharing. This article has loads of information on Guru, Mantra, Students etc.
I really like this:
"God Consciousness vs. Society Consciousness:
Progress means elimination and new acceptance. So, when there is a clash between the relative and the absolute standpoint, the relative must be left aside, and the absolute accepted. The example is given of a socialist in a country of capitalists. When there is a clash, one will not express their creed for the sake of peace. But to maintain the purity of their faith for the socialists they will try to leave and join the socialists."
 
 

Isn't this because we've tried to trap Sikhi in a box and not understood the real thing? Haven't we reduced Sikhi to grow hair and Amrit (sanskar)? or may be it's just the effect of Mind/Kaal because it is said in Bhagat Kabir's Anurag Sagar that whenever any Saint/Guru will come to earth for the betterment of mankind, then Kaal will try everything to derail that stream....
 

Isn't this because we've tried to trap Sikhi in a box and not understood the real thing? Haven't we reduced Sikhi to grow hair and Amrit (sanskar)? or may be it's just the effect of Mind/Kaal because it is said in Bhagat Kabir's Anurag Sagar that whenever any Saint/Guru will come to earth for the betterment of mankind, then Kaal will try everything to derail that stream....
 

Firstly, we need to understand what is Maya.
GOD decides to transform itself into many roops WITH Maya. Maya gives birth to 3 gunas - rajo, tamo, sato guna; From Maya sky is born; From sky air is born; From air fire is born; From fire water is born; From water earth is born. This series is exactly the opposite during destruction (maha-parlo).

Any being with pure sato gun is GOD himself.

Everthing (including humans, Avatars, Deities, top deities like: Brahama, Shiv, Vishnu) is this universe is made up of 5 elements (sky/ether, air, fire, water, earth/mud). And everything is under Kaal/Time, even Maya is under Kaal.............so it means that all Avatars, deities, Sants are under Kaal. All avtars were born and then gone to merge with GOD, so it's obvious that they in human form were within kal.

There is only One GOD who is NOT within Kaal.

The avatars were NOT God. GOD do NOT take birth. The avtars were sent by GOD himself to propagate the name of GOD. Avtars were one with GOD, like: the avtars does merge with GOD after their human form, but we can NOT say that avtars were GOD. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is one with GOD, but Guruji ordered us NOT to call him GOD.

"Everyone is caught in the noose of Death, no Rama or prophet can escape from it. All of them who made grand claims of being Avtars of God died repentant. Why doest not thou, O, hapless being seek the shelter of the One Lord. (15th swayya)"

Even the Indra (king of heaven) is under the chakar of Kal. Maya ties to effect everything, but the persons taking shelter of One Waheguru are saved from maya, infact maya does salute them (whom she tried to effect, but they didn't get affected).

There are 4 yugs (Sat Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, ThrethaYuga, and the Kali Yuga) and in each yug there are 84 avatars who take birth on this earth. Every avatar is NOT the exact image of GOD......I mean to say that they are NOT GOD.......the different kind of avatars are as follows during each yug:

There are different types of avatars:

Ansa Avtar
Aveshya Avtar
Kala Avtar
Nit Avtar
Namit Avtar
Pooran Avtar
Guru Avtar

The above mentioned avatars have different levels of powers and Guru Avatar does have almost all powers.

Those who merges with GOD tells us that after Brahamgyan everything looks like the part of Waheguru and it's just maya who is NOT allowing us (kalyugi jevs) to see Waheguru in every being.

Bhul chuk de maffi
das

Thanks Neo veerji,

I came to know the following techniques by Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji. Could you please guide me to source (Devan OR Atmik Bachan OR Diary)? I know the source of 1, 2 techniques......1st is from Baba Ji's diary and 2nd is from Babaji Atmik Bachan...................but I do NOT know about 3rd and 4th technique..................moreover is there any comparison for these techniques by Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji:

- Techniques given by sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib waley (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda)

Jap(meditation) is also done by: SOURCE By Atmik Bachan


1. Baikri Bani- When one recites naam with javan(tongue), hout(lips), khaieyal(thoughts) that is called Baikari Bani.

2. Madhma Bani- When one recites naam in Kant(throat) without moving lips...just with the thoughts is called Madhma Bani.

3. Pasanti Bani- When one recites naam in hirda(heart).

4. Para Bani- When one recites naam in Nabhi(Navel) without moving tongue and with the thoughts. In this stage vahiguroo naam gets infused in rom rom of the body. Meditation goes in automatic mode. There is no need for concentration.

Gurmukh Rom Rom Har Dhavaie ||

After 4th stage, one gets to very high stage. Where one can hear(jap-resonance,dhuni) with their surati in pretty much everything in this creation ie- walls, birds, leafs, animals, human being, even from realms (bhramands).

Dharat Patal Akash Hai Meri Jindaeriye
Sab Har Har Naam Dhavaiya Ram ||

2nd technique: SOURCE By Babaji's Diary


Va Va Da Abhyaas Nabhi Ch Karo
(Doing Simran of Va Va on Nabhi/Navel )

Hi Hi Di Awaaz Hiradaie Ch
(Doing Simran of hi hi on the heart)


Gu Gu Kant ch Karo
(Doing Simran Gu on the kant/near throat)

And

Ru Ru Di Awaaz Mastaak mai Ratan Kartaie Hoye Birti Kou Nirgun Atma Mein Lin Kar Duo

(Doing Simran Ru Ru on the Mastaak/third eye)

So its a cycle - Va ( on Nabhi) Hi(on heart) Gu (on Kant) Ru(On Mastak/third eye).

Thats one cycle....I dont know...this cycle or stage explained in the book is the first intial stage to the simran or second last stage in simran....

3rd technique: SOURCE By Sant Baba Isher Singh JI ?????


This is also included in Soraj Parkash Granth.

According to a prasang(divan) on chapter of mata ajeeto kaur reaching enlightment. Mata ajeto kaur was under guidance of siri guroo gobind singh where she was taught all the "YOG SADHNA/Shabad Surat Marg where chakras are used", when mata ji did yog sadhna, when her birthi(dhyaan) reached - Trikurti/3rd eye..she started seeing the future e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

Mata jee then told guru jee that she could not see all this pain happen and would rather die/ leave for Sachkand and asked permission to leave her body. Guru Sahib jee granted her permission and subsequently she did ishnaan, a Sukhmani Sahib da Paath and then left her body by reciting the mantar and with that mantar taking her prana on top and realising it via bhram randar nari( subtle vein) through dasam dwara.

4th technique: SOURCE By Sant Baba Isher Singh JI ?????

First concentrate on Sargun saroop of Vahiguroo while reciting shabad ie- Gur Ki Morat Man mein dhyaan Guru Ka shabad mantar man maan

then after mind becomes subtle, that shabad will automatically take you upper realms and that shabad will infuse in your surat


Thanks in advance
Das