breaking door rehit and shoelaces

[jsb]

yeah... sukhi..stick to the topic.... you too akalsharan..

(anyone remmeber what the topic is anymore?)

[Black Goddess]

Do people from tapoban read stuff on here? cos Im having visions of people fainting from shock..

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

lol xena I agree, Tapoban sangat on forum stress about such smal things in their attempt to become 'chardikala' Gursikhs.

I can imagine them getting angry or upset as we talk sarcastically and take the mick out of every sikh prayer and even the akhand path and bhog.

Them guys need to chill out and not take it to heart. Its only the Gurus akhand path and rehit maryada and those gursikhs that do paath to rid themselves of paap that we ridicule, they need to calm down.

I don't respect paath anymore than you people do and I don't know how much respect you people have but its definately more than me.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Beast]

i dun get it, was it poor sarcasm or a poor compliment?

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

a bit of both, tried my BEST not to sound sarcastic or rude so it turned out like this, I dont like to be sarcastic but i couldnt help it.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[sexy_singh]

Well the difference between them and me is that they pretend to take things seriously when in fact they are just hollow and empty and im openly admitive of not taking much seriously.

now as far as that seriousness goes there needs further qualification. I think i speak for the others when i say we have the utmost respect for Gurbani and the legacy of Baba Nanak.

Please dont think that because you fool yourself and others around you that you are "serious" and in "Chardikala" that you really are. There, free of sarcasm you have the truth veerji, bul chuk maf etc etc. <insert more bs here> (Btw using words like Panth, Akhand paat, Rehat doesnt make you anymore a sikh than playing the same words on a tape recorder makes the recorder a sikh)

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I don't know who is a chardikala Gursikh, I know it aint me thats 100% definate. I don't take much seriously, the open door thing was 'funny', but I think it went a bit far when you say this is a bujjer kureit and so we need to do so many Sukhmani Sahib Paaths, do bhog on whatever etc. Maybe I take things seriously.

Veerji, we do not know who is hollow inside, but the fact that one says he takes something seriously DOES NOT mean that he is pretending, veerji people on forums share views, they are not saying look at me I am so great. Because at the end of the say if I made myself to be some great sikh (if that is possible) then I wouldnt achieve much cos u dont know who i am so what would anyone achieve by ''pretending''?

Veerji, saying you have respect is great, but why laugh at those that are trying to make their sikh lives perfect in every way?

I agree sometimes people tend to ask the most ridicualous questions, or are they? Is it not better to clear something up rather than wander around making a mistake no matter how smal it may be?

Veerji, I don't fool people around me, I make it quite clear how serious I am and everyone is very aware of how serious I am: the fact that I still am in the process of convincing myelf to wear a dastar shows how 'serious' I am.

If you want me to post all my bad points, tell me but be ready for a long post. We are on a sikh forum, I'm not going to go around advertising my bad side now am I? Does anyone want to know what a bad sikh I am?

Its a shame that you thought that I was using the words: Akhand Path, Rehit, Panth to make myself a better sikh-- if that were possible I would type these words in every post from now.

I don't think we know enough about eachother to say who is a better sikh, and I don't intend to get into a competition (your photo shows you have the sikh look at least, I havent even got that). BTW u can call me bhenji if thats ok???

[Sukhi]

this is something that i had a conversation with someone else about.

if you can't understand the basic meaning of SGGSJ (which is embedded in the first few lines of SGGSJ), then what's the point in trying to perfect yourself in other ways? is perfection in finer details while the major details are flawed? or should you attempt to work on major details and work on the finer ones later on?

i believe it was drawrof who once said that doing nitnem should eventually be like having a conversation with Akaal Purakh at some point and time in your spiritual journey (please forgive me if i've misquoted you here).

i believe that doing nitnem is important. i don't know how important it is or if people should FORCE it on themselves when all they can think about doing is gettin some breakfast, or walkin the dog, or whatever else.

what i do know is that if you can't work on what Guru Sahib tells you to work on (ie haumai, ego, blah, blah, blah) then your bhagti isn't gonna be the same as if you were actively trying to make yourself a better person under the guidance of Guru Sahib.

THAT is why i feel the need to bring sarcasm to these pathetic rituals that people do each day.

the Gurus were trying to lead us away from becoming ritualistic and NOT to do paath and puja unthinkingly like parrots.

anyone can learn to read gurmukhi and do paath each day.

but who here can really understand the underlying meaning of what is being said and apply it to their life?

i don't pretend to be at the stage. i don't know if i'll ever be at that stage. (i'm keepin my fingers crossed though).

what i do know is that people who force a strict, nun/priest-like existence upon themselves aren't doing themselves any favours because this probably won't help them out.

on the other hand, mebbe i'm a raving lunatic who doesn't know anything and is seeing all of this the wrong way.

maybe this WILL help them in their path. mebbe this WILL bring them closer to their goal.

but will it do them any benefit if they're forcing their views on others?

will it do them any good to look down upon others and focus on us "lowly, fake" sikhs?

i doubt it.

[tSingh]

The above couple of posts is what I was hoping would arise out of the original post - my opening slap was not meant to turn into a beating! Yes, there is a danger of nihilism in any form of critique, but in all honesty my point was the lack of consciousness on some people's part in their practice.

If you don't know or think independtly about the reason why you are not eating certain things, not doing certain things, then really you are living in blind faith, which for our particular marg is not helpful at all. However, as Sukhi begins to hint at...perhaps this blindness is an necessary precursor to seeing. Once you understand that rehit/maryada is yam and niyam, then you acquire some autonomy and self-consciousness. From this state of watchfulness may arise the nadar of increased bhakti/jnaan.

This is the danger of 'not thinking', something I saw actively preached to the youth on the tapoban forum once. Once you have lost your vivek, then you are as prone to haumai as any other mindless ritualist. Yet, attributing the most simple acts with divine symbolism (as Guru ji does to Aarti for example) elevates everything to a form of bhakti.

[Narsingha]

Interesting concepts...

....what is more important...speaking/believing/living truthfully, or doing Nitnem and 'thinking'?

Even before considering Nitnem, one shud become honest with themselves...easier said than done. Not much point in putting truth in a vessel thats dirty and filthy. It has come to a point were speaking the truth has become politically incorrect, and where speaking about others practicing "ritualistic Sikhism" is "cool". Whatever the beliefs of people who post on tapoban.org, they are still human beings - prone to the same narrow-mindedness that we are all guilty of at some time or another.

Its always easier to work on concepts 'outside' the body (nitnem, kakkars, etc.), harder to work within.

[tableji]

Its always easier to work on concepts 'outside' the body (nitnem, kakkars, etc.), harder to work within.

I totally agree....the whole point in reading gurbani is so that u understand it....understanding it means applyin to ur life as best as u can....

[jsb]

what i do know is that people who force a strict, nun/priest-like existence upon themselves aren't doing themselves any favours because this probably won't help them out.

Maybe, but at the same time, by forcing this type of action upon themselves might also be doing good...... i mean if they're telling everyone else to be ridiculously strict, and they themselves are also practisingwhat they preach, there's a good chance that they might only be preaching from experience....

on the other hand, mebbe i'm a raving lunatic who doesn't know anything and is seeing all of this the wrong way.

can't it be both

[Sukhi]

no it can't be both.

secondly, take a look at the rest of my post... lol... you'll see that i said something similar to your first comment.

Narsingha, expand on your comment about how speaking the truth has become politically incorrect.

[sexy_singh]

I know exactly what hes talking about. See sukhi, people like me arent very religious. But the people on the other side, the ijiots who talk the talk, look the look and say they walk the walk - they give people like me reason for having a religious meaning.

I can be religious simply by noting their hypocrisy and saying "well im not like them, i dont do what they do" - so im more truthful than the religious.

you see how that works? In reality im not religious - i have no meaning - and they are full of crap. But i have truth on my side, even though that im not actually doing anything special.

The problem is with them. Opinions like mine are only cool because they suck, and not because we are cool. We're just normal. It actually has little to do with political correctness. It has more to do with truth than anything else.

How? Well show me a religious person whos truthful and honest. Who doesnt pretend to be something hes not. Show me such a person and i'll not ridicule him, i'll not make PC points against him because i hold such a person in great esteem.

[Morpheous]

I still am in the process of convincing myelf to wear a dastar

why ?

[Narsingha]

Narsingha, expand on your comment about how speaking the truth has become politically incorrect.

no

[Sukhi]

sexy, thanks. that makes a little sense. (this is me talkin after reading it twice).

Narsingha... fine.

[Dynamic_Banda]

Subscribe to any religion and any ism (that includes sanatanism) and screw your spirituality man. you wont find it in any 'ism' you'll just find good actors and thieves

[guv]

twin half/cousin.... you're implying that you're an inbred.

damn u & ur irrefutable logic!

where do u draw the line on what is blind ritual & what is tradition?

[Sukhi]

doesn't tradition become a blind ritual when the meaning behind it is lost?

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Harpreet, the reason I'm still trying to convince myself to wear a dastar is because I'm not sure I can live upto it. If I walk down the street no one knows who I am. I'm not a bad example if u get wot I mean. And my parents are freaked out everytime I suggest it.

I will cover my head some day, just don't know when.

My dad will think the world ahs ended but with Waheguru Ji's kirpa I think I will do it one day no matter what, but only when I think I am to some extent worthy of it.

ie.when I have to some extent at least controlled kaam krodh etc etc.

In my opinion, if you pray, even if you force yourself to, it does help.

Ofcoure thats if you are not thinking about walking the dog at the same time.

Most ppl I know who would do so many Sukhmani Sahib Paath WILL actually concentrate on the paath and not walking the dog. It is clear from the way they have changed that doing these paaths has helped them. How do I know?Because they seem to be less egotistical by the day and they claim that their mind wanders less (how true that is I do not know).

Sometimes I do Mool Mantar on the train and its wid concentration and other times my mind wanders but its better than not doing it at all because hopefully one day I can control my mind and some days I can so its all worthwhile in my opinion.

Some ppl don't do paath like PARROTS but they understand it and the more u drill it in the more it gets into their heads (IMO). I know some ppl who do 5 Sukhmani Sahib Paaths a day and they do their best to try to follow it. Then there are those that do so many paaths and think everyone else is low.

There are those like me that do Japji Sahib Paath in morning and think I have acheived so much.

Baba Nand Singh Sahib Ji told Sikhs to do 10 Japji Sahib Paaths a day for 25 days or somthing similar so is that wrong of them?

Ofcourse if you can pray from the bottom of ur heart thats good but if u cant then is it not better to just pray that u can one day pray with complete concentration? Is that a ritual? Is praying to God and showing ur devotion eventhough ur mind is wandering a waste of time or does it have at least some benefit?I don't know.

Sexy_singh

Baba Nand Singh JI said to the sangat to do so and so many paaths and he was a true Sikh in my opinion, yet he encouraged paath so much.

In fact I was reading that Sant Baba Harnam Singh JI told him to do 125,000 Mool Mantar paath so he sat there and did that for ages. Is that dum?

I don't understand Sexy_singh wot u mean by them being full of crap. Is that me?Is that the Tapoban Sangat? Is that religious ppl in general?

There are many religious ppl out there. I don't know where you live but come to the UK, London, Southall and go to Park Avenue Gurdwara and meet (Head)Granthi Shamsher Singh JI. In my opinion, he talks, walks and dresses like a Gursikh and in my opinion he is one. In my opinion he is not only truthful but also religious. In my opinion u can be both and if u went out and looked u would find that there are MANY MANY great Sikhs out there. I'm not one of them but I certainly know then exist cos I have met them or heard abt them.

Is it better to be religious? Is it better to be truthful?

I thought truth was part of being religious?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Morpheous]

Why do you want people to know who you are when you walk down the street ?

What is the significance of covering your head at all times ?

What worked for certain mahapurshs may not work for you..everyone is different .... hunna ?

As to controlling your mind..... i think Pheena can help with that. .....

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

lol Harpreet I said I didn't want ppl to know I am Sikh as I walk down the street as I would hardly be giving Sikhi a good name. IE. In my opinion one should be folllowing Sikhi sort of well b4 they wear a dastar cos lse ur saying ur something that u aint.

Well what is the significance of covering ur head infront of Guru Granth Sahib Ji???

Well ofcourse evryone is different but I don't agree that when it comes to paath what works for one cannot work for the other.

I reckon Baba Nand Singh Ji knew what they were talking about and I think what any Mahapursh says to the whole sangat is meant for the sangat and can work for eberyone of them if they try.

Yesterday in between the kirtan the person was saying that Baba Nand Singh Ji said that even if u drink sharaab or do anything else that is wrong then u should also pray more because its like a weighing scale, the more ppap u do the more u should pray to keep ur karam a bit balanced. I don't know if thats exactly how BabaJi said it but I think it works for everyone. They do something bad, they pray. But eventually they will fall into paath so much that they will leave alcohol themselves. I don't know if that made sense(soz).

I think I got most of it improved but the greed needs to be cured lol.Anger comes second. pride is mainly in Sikhi so thats ok right?

Pheena???

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

[Pheena]

im not sure what is it that you are asking of me? Perhaps you can put it more directly. Are you asking how to control your mind from wandering?

[Har Naal Pyar]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Pheena Harpreet was saying that u could give advice on controlling the 5 vices .

I just thought u pray more and all that and eventually its a job done.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh