singh1800

Whole singh sabha thing is over-rated, whole samparda is over rated and whole sanatan thing is also over-rated. Regular sikhs who are initiated into khalsa, just need to be shown deep layers of gurmat thats all in direct experience which is profoundly liberating, resonating with all and thats all there is to it, all these sticking conceptual ism / labelling/beleif/concepts would fall away automatically. Thats' the power of Jot all in one, one in all-naam its consumes everything.
Caution needs to be paid, as one can fall into same pitfall one is trying to avoid when it comes traditional thought vs reformist thought..it all comes down to direct self discovery, self awareness and self realization.

Hold your horses a moment. You stated in an earlier post "Rituals and superstitions are not a part of Sikhi. Noone cares if theres a jug of water there or not and if someone does, theyre a fool."
To which i asked you "how is this pithcer of water defined as a ritual or superstition?"
 
You haven't answered the question unless your "Why would anyone care if theres water there or not? It doesn't matter. " qualifies as some sort of answer.
This is just giving your opinion without you explaining why you have come to this conclusion. So I would like to ask again why you feel this is a ritual or superstition.
 
 
Placing the water has no effect. It's the water that is itself affected.
 
 
Who are these anti-Panthic forces you talk of?
 
 
What about when the speakers are switched off during prayers ie Akhand Paath? How will it work having a tank full of water next to the speaker?

 
 
I was told that one of reasons that during amrit sinchaar that paath is done directly over the bata of water is because water absorbs sound. A quick search on the net has shown that a scientist did indeed look at this and has found it does. How does this make someone gullible?
 
 
There are some 13,000 villages in Panjab. Are you saying there are more than 13,000 ram rahim dera's in Panjab?
 
 
I hope that any followers of ram rahim who are here, are here to learn about Gurmat, and see where their "guru" gets all his knowledge from. But why can't we Sikhs here make the same claim against followers of dhadhri wala? That is also supporting beadbi of SGGS.
 
 

@Jageera  if you want to beleive that Guru Nanak spent 3 days hiding in the Bein Rivere contemplating his next course of action, or that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never took khande ki pahul then read dilgeers book. Anybody who has faith in Guru Sahib's would never waste their time or money on dilgeers books.

when i read the title, i though you meant what to do with kale as in african-americans lol 
then i realized.
some people put kale in saag as well, my family did it, it wasnt too bad.

A lot of what you are saying is not the belief of these sampradas. 
I have frequently seen that you deliberately misrepresent the views of others, you twist their views to make them look more extreme, then you try to defeat that made up exaggerated strawman that you created. People have corrected your erroneous views yet you persist in misrepresenting things that you clearly don't comprehend. 
Your willingness to lie so casually reflects poorly on you.

I wouldnt call the SGPC a sect even though they did deviate from the Panthic maryada when they installed the Sikh Rehat Maryada in Gurdwaras.
ie removing and ending Sri Dasam granth role in the Panth, allowing Sri Akhand Paath without Sri Raagmala.
 
He is just the mirror image of you. Only with a different axe to grind. I'm surprised you haven't seen it. Repetitive posts about the same bull.
see above. and again it was repetitive.
Absolutely. Didn't you insult Guru Gobind Singh's Granth? Sri Dasam Granth has been an integral part of Sikhi for centuries but yet you cast doubt on it and liking posts that cast doubt on it? Why would you even do that?

Satkiran calm the hell down.

Yes Maharaj said to keep them seperate as they deal with different topics. One is mainly on worldly affairs whereas the other is spiritual. It is like Miri and Piri - two seperate entities yet Sikhs respect and engage in both.
 
The problem here is that the "true genuine banis" (Jaap Sahib, Akal Ustat and others) came to us  THROUGH the Dasam Granth manuscripts. There are no seperate manuscripts that only contain these 3-4 writings. They have come Down to us through the Dasam Granth manuscripts which Again begs the question if these were the only true writings of the Guru, why were they ammeded to writings that were not of the Guru?
 
The doubt about the Charitropakhyan is fairly recent. During the pre-colonial times there are no evidence that anyone had doubts on the Dasam Granth. In fact, British writers of the early 1800s say that the Sikh political leaders kept both Granths on equal terms since they considered both to be Gurbani. The Jaap Sahib of Guru Gobind Singh is as holy and pure as the Japji Sahib of Guru Nanak.
That is not true. The early Sikhs had no problem with this bani, - most likely because they did not interpret it as bani that defames women but saw the higher morale/message of each story.
 
That guy you mention is an idiot. His idiocy can't be used as an argument against the Dasam Granth. He is an idiot on his own accord.
 
Your main problem is that you're mixing history with beliefs. Whether the Guru wrote the Dasam Granth or not - that is a question of HISTORY.. Its not about beliefs "Does one believe the Guru wrote it".  And a clear majority of historical evidence suggests that the Guru did in fact write the entire Dasam Granth and this was also the belief of the early Khalsa. See the video for the many evidence.

He doesn’t say that. You need to be very careful whenever you take secondhand opinions/interpretations of a controversial topic. People get emotional and accuracy goes out the window. There are also numerous groups with vested interests in deliberately misrepresenting what scholars from sampradas say b/c they are in a struggle to influence the mass numbers of Sikhs and don’t care to stick to Gurmat  (honesty in this case) to do it. 
 
Some background context for people, the idea of patti parmeshwar is basically that if the husband is like parmeshwar (i.e., not some drunk slob but actually walks the walk of Gurmat) then the wife should serve him with sharda and devotion as if he is parmeshwar. According to Baba Nand Singh ji and many others, she will then gain All the riddhi siddhis. 
 
There are actually universally accepted sakhian of people living by this principle, such as that of Bibi Rajni ji. 
 
Btw, Sants also say to try to serve all as if they are parmeshwer when we do seva as this will give us greater benefit.

That's exactly how I feel Sat1176. Moreover, I don't see any authentic leaders who can preside over the new supposed to be country. If it ever happened, then it won't be free of corruption, power as it is now in Punjab. In-fact if it happens it might become extremist country. See today's so-called protectors who are beating weak?
e.g I'm not happy with this life on earth as there is pain everywhere and everything is damn Fake. I wish to create new world without any problems, but I came to conclusion that it is fantasy to think about the world without problems. We need to fight while living in this world. So, may be this Khalis (pure country) is also fantasy.

Satkiran, the concept/angle of "punishment" simply does not exist in this context, so I don't think it can apply here.
Now consider the following:
Mata Gujri Ji, Mata Sundri Ji and Mata Jito Ji were all present at the amrit sanchar. Does anyone think why they did not give their heads? If we go by your logic, satkiran, in a previous post, where you mention that women of that time were still (to paraphrase) timid/held back etc., what would be the implication in the context of the 3 Mata Jis? Are you saying that they were timid/held back etc., or that they did not know or had any faith in what Guru Sahib Ji was doing? 

​You ave had your answers to this already. It's not my fault if you are deliberately overlooking them. Stop wasting our time. You are taking the role of Sher, who posts the same drivel over and over at any opportunity.
 
Maybe this really is the time for your last post. Make it a c and p of the message I sent you.

of the few taksalis whose houses i have been in, i have never seen any of these. Perhaps you would like to elaborate on where you have seen them? Not read about them but seen them. Thanks.
 
​You have already recieved answers to these numerous times. it's not our fault if you can't understand them. but why keep throwing up the same vomit here on the forum?
​At last!
 
This is the first time in weeks you have said anything useful on this forum. Women should be represented more in leadership positions, not only in religious but also political affairs. Jagir Kaur was the head of the SGPC recently and Kiran Deep Kaur is a life member of the SGPC working committee but it's still not enough. During the years of Bhai Amrik Singh's tenure as the head of the AISSF, there was a female wing of the AISSF headed by Bibi Upkar Kaur, the extremely talented wife of Bhai Harminder Singh Sandhu. Bibi Upkar Kaur also became shaheed in Op Bluestar.
 
During a recent update to our local gurdwaras constitution I argued successfully that the constitution should be amended to allow females to take up any committee position. I have also encouraged females to consider joining the future committee and hope that some do.
​You have had your answers to these. It's not our fault if you cannot or will not understand them. It is a false statement to say that DT oppose this. If the Taksal had this kind of clout they would have reintroduced Raagmala and Sri Dasam Granth into Sri Akal Takht maryada by now. Not to mention the full reading of Sri Rehras Sahib.
 
Stop telling lies.

This discussion should be framed in the overall context that to do seva is a privilege, and not a right. 
Too many make everything into a right these days.
 
If either a man or woman go # 2 they have to wash before sitting in tabiya. If somehow, someway, it was only women that had to go #2, then the feminists would say that it is wrong to force women to wash before sitting at tabiya. Why? Truth is modern feminism has twisted peoples minds so that if some kind of gandhgi happens only to a woman, it is all of a sudden paviter in their minds! But if this same gandhgi happened to both genders, then they would accept that it is in fact apavitter. Why are women so special that their gandghi is pavitter, but a males is not?
 
2nd point, All sorts of gandhgi come from the body, but I think we can accept that some kinds are worse than others. 
 
3rd, Even with sanitary pads etc, it still is coming out of the body. Similarly, if a man has to wear an adult diaper for incontinence etc, then he is also not able to sit in tabiya. 
 
No double standard here. Just double minded thinking that elevates the female form higher than the male form.

I have some questions on the concept of reincarnation. My knowledge on reincarnation is mainly from Buddhism and Hinduism, this may not be accurate when it comes to Sikhism, so I'll ask some questions that I found to be problematic with the aforementioned religions and maybe with Sikhism.

1) If one does not remember his/her past life, then how is reincarnation fair/just as a system of purification of the soul. A person does not know what mistakes they made so they can correct them.

2) Animals (maybe natural objects ie. rocks???) have souls that move up to higher forms, ending up as human beings. How do these animals become "good" in order to move up this hierarchy? What makes a good/bad rock, or a whale worthy so it deserves to become human.

2b) And also can animals/inanimate objects make concious decisions that justify them being human?

3) If all souls were created at the beginning, some ended up as animals, some as humans ? on what criteria were some given a head start by being the higher form?

4) It's a scientific fact that the human race is increasing in size due to modern medicines, and governance. The human population has gone from less then 200 million to over 7 billion in the last 2 centuries alone. Does this mean Sikhs believe a lot of animals suddenly became good and turned to human beings?

4b) Also as human beings progress to higher forms, shouldn't that mean the human population should be getting less? not increasing? If you say well most humans are not achieving a higher form, then surely the animal kingdom should be drastically increasing, but more and more animals are becoming extict, there numbers are decreasing also, over fishing, global warming, poaching etc.

5) once a human being is "good" enough to move to a higher form, then what happens to his/her soul in Sikhism?

6) Is it only via Sikki that a soul can reach the higher form? or can someone following a different religion achieve this? If a good Muslim, Hindu, Christian can achieve this higher form of the soul, then whats the point of Sikki? If they can't then what about all those people that were there before Guru Nanak. After all Sikhism has only been around for about 700 years, humans existence is over thousands of years old.

That's all for now. Thanks

In my opinion when the nihangs had to escape persecution and gave the gurdwaras to the Hindu mahants that is when the malicious things crept into the panth cause there were no real chardi kala gursikhs left to implement Sikhism to its fullest. In my opinion that is why our grandmothers where not asked to take Amrit cause the British and Hindus wanted to weaken the panth. My great grandmother had taken Amrit. This was before the Singh sabhia's I believe. Also my grandmother took khanda da Amrit at hazur sahib in 1980 not Kirpan the Amrit. My brother in law's cousin sister took khandey da Amrit from hazur sahib last year. They did not take Kirpan da Amrit.

In my opinion guru Ji 100% guarantee that he gave his wives, mothers etc Amrit. I guarantee it. If I get far sham of guru Ji I will ask him and I guarantee he would say yes. Why do I have such firm belief? Because my guru was an equal fair guru who did not discriminate.

In the end you have your opinions and I have mine but we are still brothers