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I heard the tape last night. I had listened to it a decade ago. But yesterday was different. It drove through some major points about our limited time on earth.
could not sleep for sure

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru.......

"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"

... Because this world is so convincing, and the ego identity so strong that we have become so immersed within this character we are playing. It's not just the illusion of the world around us.., it's the illusion of our own identity. It's hard to let go of the 'I' that we think we are. We are programmed to think that if the 'I' ceases to exist... That's it we die and there's nothing left. But it's not the 'I' that Is Experiencing... The doer the experiencer exists independent of the 'I' that we think is our identity. But out of fear, we just can't seem to let go of the 'I'

Beating or killing in the name of religion (blasphemy, insulting the Gurus, etc) is not the Sikh way. I used to be a supporter of these killings but have since changed my mind; people like Rulda should've been countered by parchaar not bullets. Same with most of the deradaars, with the exception of the ones who commited rapes, forced sterilizations and murders - they can be killed in Khalsa vigilante justice according to Sikh and Gur Ithaas.

Our Gur Ithaas is full of slanderers of the Guru and even ones who changed bani but the Gurus just told us not to mingle with them, not to kill them. Our Gurus took on the Mughal empire, and if they wanted they could've decimated all these sects.

From an ex-extremist.

After seeing some discussions on the other threads about atma, soul and God within us and God in Gurus, maybe some further discussion is helpful.

Kabirji says the same thing about how we rant on and on about our Mind and soul, whilst at the same time using this mind's intellect in doing so!

ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥
Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā.
There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies.

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥
Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36||
Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36||


Jio/atma/soul/ are the same thing.
These last pangtis (the jio ek ar sagal sareera) come after a number that are contemplating the MIND and questioning the mann.
they say........

ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਨਾਰਦ ਮੁਨਿ ਸੇਖਾ ॥
Sankāḏik nāraḏ mun sekẖā.
Even sages like Sanak and Naarad, and the thousand-headed serpent,

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੇਖਾ ॥੩॥
Ŧin bẖī ṯan mėh man nahī pekẖā. ||3||
did not see the mind within the body. ||3||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਕੋਈ ਖੋਜਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥
Is man ka▫o ko▫ī kẖojahu bẖā▫ī.
Anyone can search for this mind, O Siblings of Destiny.

ਤਨ ਛੂਟੇ ਮਨੁ ਕਹਾ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੪॥
Ŧan cẖẖūte man kahā samā▫ī. ||4||
When it escapes from the body, where does the mind go? ||4||

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਨਾਮਾਂ ॥
Gur parsādī jaiḏe▫o nāmāʼn.
By Guru's Grace, Jai Dayv and Naam Dayv

ਭਗਤਿ ਕੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਮਿ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੫॥
Bẖagaṯ kai parem in hī hai jānāʼn. ||5||
came to know this, through loving devotional worship of the Lord. ||5||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਨਹੀ ਆਵਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥
Is man ka▫o nahī āvan jānā.
This mind does not come or go.

ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਇਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੬॥
Jis kā bẖaram ga▫i▫ā ṯin sācẖ pacẖẖānā. ||6||
One whose doubt is dispelled, knows the Truth. ||6||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ਕਾਈ ॥
Is man ka▫o rūp na rekẖ▫i▫ā kā▫ī.
This mind has no form or outline.

ਹੁਕਮੇ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝਿ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੭॥
Hukme ho▫i▫ā hukam būjẖ samā▫ī. ||7||
By God's Command it was created; understanding God's Command, it will be absorbed into Him again. ||7||

ਇਸ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨੈ ਭੇਉ ॥
Is man kā ko▫ī jānai bẖe▫o.
Does anyone know the secret of this mind?

ਇਹ ਮਨਿ ਲੀਣ ਭਏ ਸੁਖਦੇਉ ॥੮॥
Ih man līṇ bẖa▫e sukẖ▫ḏe▫o. ||8||
This mind shall merge into the Lord, the Giver of peace and pleasure. ||8||
Kabirji is talking about the mind
He is saying "jio ek sagal sareera" because of what we do with our MIND....
You see we all say there is One God, Christians say it, jews say it, muslims say it....
The whole world around Kabirji is talking about the ONE God....just like they do today....but that's it...All talk , chatter,... discuss..but no real uddam or efforts to find Him.

All using their Mind's intellect to discuss the ONE parbrahm.......he is everywhere, in everything...but that's it !......how about experiencing ?

Remember that in gurbani it also mentions a few times....we are like different pots of clay with the same water inside.......just differently decorated on the outside but the inside has the same jal
....yet our mind's attach that same Water/Ji/ God/atma soul to the body and repeatedly discuss...discuss.... and wonder where is mind from, where does it go......etc...

In light of this, Kabirji is telling us 'WAKE UP'' because that same God-soul/water is right inside you.

No good just discussing....Do bhakti and GO WITHIN, find him right inside yourself.
We can carry on discussing until life end, but it is NO USE unless you make the effort to find that SAME God-soul that is INSIDE ALL of us.
God SOUL is very close and within us but by going around discussing and doing Mann vichaar of saying "Yes of course God is inside all of us" we are attaching and associating the Mind to the outer maya with discussions....which leads to EGO. ...We have to find ways of dissociating with this instead.
By associating we make a distinctive line showing MIND is separate from ATMA,,,and this makes the duality....the same Ego.

Simply put ,GOD + EGO= us individuals...manukhs,.. the pots with the water
If You go WITHIN and start doing bakti, then slowly you will start to merge bit by bit and in doing so, begin to shed that EGO, layer by layer..
then in simple math......... GOD - (minus) EGO = God, pure atma, sachkhand...where no ego or identity of mind remains. The mind is jyot saroop.
I said above that Kabirji's "Ji-o ek sagal sarira" is a WAKE-UP to us since, he is saying Kao-rav rahe..to dwell upon this Ji-o Ik in our body, rather than discussing the mind as in the prior pangtis.

ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥
Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā.
There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies.

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥
Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36||
Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36||


With regards to this wake up, he finishes the shabad on this line and continues with raag gwaarayree with...

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ॥
Gauree Gwaarayree:

ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਜੋ ਜਾਗੇ ॥
Ahinis ek nām jo jāge.
Those who are awake to the One Name, day and night -

ਕੇਤਕ ਸਿਧ ਭਏ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Keṯak siḏẖ bẖa▫e liv lāge. ||1|| rahā▫o.
many of them have become Siddhas - perfect spiritual beings - with their consciousness attuned to the Lord. ||1||Pause||

How are they awake ?? don't their bodies sleep ??..
Yes, the bodies sleep, but the water inside the pot is always jagat,
The Atma soul is untouchable and remains the active force of the universe, no matter what it is cased in.
They have merged their Mann Chit - mind consciousness with the EK Atma-soul inside them.
And How would they do that ?
answer - Bhakti, just like perfect siddhas.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਰਾਖੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ ਸਭ ਗੁਨ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਬਿਖਾਦੀ ਏਕੁ ਗਰੀਬਾ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ ॥ ਖੇਦੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਅਰੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸੰਤਾਵਹਿ ਆਇਓ ਸਰਨਿ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰਿਓ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਤੀ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਏਕ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਤਾਕੀ ਓਟਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਟਿ ਜਾਹੀ ॥੨॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸੰਤ ਮਿਲੇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੰਤੀ ਮੰਤੁ ਦੀਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ ਜੀਤਿ ਲਏ ਓਇ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖਾਦੀ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਹੇਲੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਭਇਆ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ਪਾਇਆ ਪਦੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ॥੪॥੪॥੧੨੫॥{ਪੰਨਾ 206}

Not sure why you guys complicate things and cause confusion.....

In the most simplest explanation that I can give -
First,..We ALL have a soul/atman, this is the pure God soul in all of us.,...it is the drop of the ocean...these same atmas, make up the complete paramatma.

HOWEVER, we are here because it is all the game of the MIND..(the mann)

Our mind's are engrossed in maya,...controlled by 5 dhut......not listening to the Atma.
You see, we have a choice whereby we can let the MIND be the master of the soul and let it run free and run the conduct...which makes us manmukh and in complete man-mat.
OR We can make effort to still that running Mind and try to 'merge' it with the ATMA.
This is when the ATMA/PARAMATMA becomes the master of the Mind instead. It then runs all the conduct and one is in gur-mat.

So, the goal for conducting ourselves is to always keep trying to let the Atma/Soul be the master of the mind. But we have to make this same decision using the maya enveloped mind ......so, the REAL IDEA is to.............

.. keep trying to merge and merge this Mind with Atma ..so that it all becomes ONE and the SAME.
This is the 'merging' gurbani talks about.
This is how the MIND recognizes it' origin(mool) and becomes Jyot Saroop...(Mann tu Jyot Saroop hai, apna mool pehchaan)

To conclude,.. understand that YES, we all have the same ATMA-God soul within us.
BUT the GURUS had their MIND'S that COMPLETELY merged in their ATMA,
Their Minds did not have a single ounce of influence from Maya or worldly body.... which is why they could just sit and smile on a hot plate because their ATMA was untouchable.

When Mind is in Maya, that is when it feels pain,joy,sadness, anxiety, worry.....
When Mind is One and the Same merged with Atma,, then it feels none of these, because it is dissociated from body and it's maya surroundings.. Sitting on a hot plate is no pain or torture whatsoever because the atma is unharmed.

We have our Mind's slightly merged here and there, or just a little divine feeling of oneness now and again because our Minds are under heavy influences of 5 dhut and maya.
So, we understand nowhere near about the Atma inside us as the Gurus and some bhagats whose Minds were absorbed in completeness.

quite simply....
GURU= ATMA+MIND are all MERGED into ONE and the same.
Me and You= ATMA + MIND are separate....hence the duality and the ego..

Lucky you said the same thing as I did, just in different words!




I don't know why people find this so hard to grasp???

I have had similar experience at sikhphilosophy.net. Most of the regulars over there are not worried about bhagti at all. They are not concerned with the spiritual world at all. In fact as you said most of them are atheist. They seek to interpret Sikhism according to their own modern ways and dismiss everything that is deep or mystical. They have different interpretations about what Sikhi is and none of it includes naam jaap or even baani jaap. For them baani is just meant to be understood. If you point out that bani incessantly tells us recite naam and baani they don't care. Most of the time they make jokes of these things.

Excellent !!!! Very balanced and rational answers..might impressed with this Babaji

All the gurus in my humble opinion is god...

It is engrained more in some than others.

My mrs and I are from different backgrounds. We chose to ignore caste and thought being Sikh was enough. But deep down now I realise she has a lot of pride regarding her own and it was deeply engrained in her from childhood. Their community looks down on others groups and does have a superiority complex. They prohibited their children for socialising with other castes children to safe guard them from a negative influences. That's how paranoid some groups are.

That's a cool new idea. I'll give that a try next time I am pissed.

This question always get me in my own way.

For example, Gurbani say Kare re mann chitve udam... O Mind! Why are you thinking about making effort ?
And another instance, it says Udam Karendya... Make effort to get comfort...
So maybe the updesh is different for different people.

What I have understood is that we need to talk from where we are in our current experience of reality?
For me , makin effort is required, or Personal Will is more important in current experience of reality.
If I think there is divine will , I will not be able to make any effort.

In reality from Gurbani's perspective, everything is divine will. Which may become a current experience for me if Guru Ji wills. But for now, personal will is necessary to make the necessary effort for reaching that point where Grace takes us further into realizing that everywhere is God, and no one else or everything is divine will.

I think it all boils down to an individuals current experience of situation. For a Brahmgyani everything is Divine Willl, for a commoner like me a majority of life is personal will, rest is divine will.

What this pankti means to me : hukam rajaa-ee chalnaa naanak likhi-aa naal ?

I should be following the hukam of Guru Granth Sahib which is in the form of simple instructions, one of the major instruction being Naam Japna. And doing that I should strive for a stage where everything He does , I should be able to accept with bowed down head.

Thank god that they got the police involved...

i agree ji,

from my experience of Simran and meditation, wonderful things occur when i am not looking for something, when i am not desiring for anything...as soon as i 'want' something...or 'expect' something, the meditation is lost...

one needs to surrender to His will...all is in His hands only...i/we cannot acheive anything...complete surrender...then unlimited possibilities open up on their own accord.

God Bless Ji

Brother N30 Singh,
indeed this is a very good topic, but for me personally, all of the Bani, is weet. It is like one´s child, whever you kiss him, you get that taste of his sweetness.

In a simlar way, the Bani from the very begining, the middle, or the end, it is all sweetness,

it is all beauty, it is all wisdom .....

I would like to have it all within me, even then, it would not be sufficient...such is the magnificence of the Bani.

But if anything had to be said, I would quote this:

Ik Oankar, Satnam,
Satgur Parsad.

There is only one Lord, He is Satnam
and He is realized by His grace alone.

Sat Sree Akal.

Here is the digital copy of Handwritten Diary of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib (written in Punjabi and Shahmukhi). THANKS VERY MUCH Matheen for lending your copy to me.

It is scanned from the photocopy of original diary. I've uploaded this file at the following links. I don't know how could I attach a file in Sikhawareness, kindly save this file somewhere on sikhawareness so that everyone could have access to it.
Diary_Original.pdf
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/597068/Spiritual-----Sant-Baba-Isher-Singh-Ji-----Diary-Original-pdf.html

Chit Charan Kamal Sang Jodiye...

Interesting topic. Since N30ji's article on Nisargadatta, I have been reading the latter's books on "I am" .

In this article, Al Hallaj's "Ana al Haqq" is similar to Nisargadatta's " I am that"( "So Hum") which similar to Moses's " I am that I am" ( ie I am God) to Sikhee's "So hung".( I am that).

Conclusion: at the end of the day, we all return to Him/God=Oneness,Ek Ong kar that is within us.

Stand to be corrected.

Based on the footage its very bad indeed , but my views on this is that

1. Both parties need to be present and questioned
2. These Singhs , if they have not done anything wrong , knock on Sri Harimandir Sahibs door , keep chasing the jatedar for an answer
as 2 of the guys he knows , find out their background , get an independent investigation ( saying that , I dont see it happening as its India , theres no justice system in India , and if these Singhs start prodding further , may be threatened further )
3. Taking Amrit is not a small thing , it takes oneself to be strong , have piare for Guru ji , and i dont agree with the sings handing over their kakars , they should become stronger , infact put their faith in Guru ji asking to help them stop such attrocites happening rather than giving up.

I think its good video footage has been made , but the issue is how many people in India actually see it or are aware of it as i believe if they all get together and seek action for such atrocities will make it better for the wider community.

But as mentioned before the downside is these Singhs could become worse off if they start prodding further , be falsely framed , beaten up , and who would know .

Speaking of Landscape... this is one of my fav shots I ever took. It's in Kashmir, India (somewhere in Ladakh region). I didn't want to bring the SLR so I picked up a Fuji HS50 EXR which operates and feels exactly like an SLR (even has phase detect combo with contrast for autofocus), but the lens is fixed but it covers effective 24-1000 mm range! It's a great cam for travelling with. Obviously not as clear and crisp as dedicated lenses, but I didn't want to carry 20 Lbs of gear everywhere plus if I happened to lose or break this cam the total loss would only been ~ 450 CDN.

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:
There is a garden, in which so many plants have grown.
They bear the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam as their fruit. ||1||
Consider this, O wise one,
by which you may attain the state of Nirvaanaa.
All around this garden are pools of poison, but within it is the Ambrosial Nectar, O Siblings of Destiny.
There is only one gardener who tends it.
He takes care of every leaf and branch. ||2||
He brings all sorts of plants and plants them there.
They all bear fruit - none is without fruit. ||3||
One who receives the Ambrosial Fruit of the Naam from the Guru -
O Nanak, such a servant crosses over the ocean of Maya. ||4||5||56||

http://froknowsphoto.com/nikon-vs-canon/