chatanga1

It does seems like a lot of lies. I dont trust nayyar to write the truth.  Had a read of the first paragraph and can see it's just propoganda. It's designed to prevent the new generation of Sikhs from taking any inspiration from SJS Bhindranwale.

The summary provided by Sikhkhoj deliberately left out the important pieces of information. His post made it sound like the scholars were the writers of the text whereas they were only the narrators of the text in Sanskrit.
No wonder he wouldn't put the whole text up, even after you asked him Amardeep, and I'm glad I looked it up to see if I could find it on the net because sikhkhoj's post simply wasn't the whole truth.
This is the danger of having people with agendas on the forum. They deliberately misrepresent, and the onus falls on goats like me to bring the whole story. I wonder how his fanclub will take it. They loved every post of his. Like, like, like...
Dohra:
The merciful Guru spoke the words and everybodys minds felt blissful
As the Sikhs read all felt the gloom turned to joy all round.

Yes Paapiman.
yo dont need to bhul chuk maaf to ask that question.

The summary provided by Sikhkhoj deliberately left out the important pieces of information. His post made it sound like the scholars were the writers of the text whereas they were only the narrators of the text in Sanskrit.
No wonder he wouldn't put the whole text up, even after you asked him Amardeep, and I'm glad I looked it up to see if I could find it on the net because sikhkhoj's post simply wasn't the whole truth.
This is the danger of having people with agendas on the forum. They deliberately misrepresent, and the onus falls on goats like me to bring the whole story. I wonder how his fanclub will take it. They loved every post of his. Like, like, like...
Dohra:
The merciful Guru spoke the words and everybodys minds felt blissful
As the Sikhs read all felt the gloom turned to joy all round.

Bhai Mani Singh Ji set up his Taksal in Amritsar known today as Amritsar Taksal, but thats not the point I'm making. i was looking at the logic behind Professors assertion, and how other people with vested interests quote him as if it must be true, whilst ignoring his thoughts on other issues that they don't agree with.
 

It is written in Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama to do agan sanskar of old kes. I have only known a couple of people of do it. Can't remember reading a reason for it.

Bhai Mani Singh Ji set up his Taksal in Amritsar known today as Amritsar Taksal, but thats not the point I'm making. i was looking at the logic behind Professors assertion, and how other people with vested interests quote him as if it must be true, whilst ignoring his thoughts on other issues that they don't agree with.
 

Yes Paapiman.
yo dont need to bhul chuk maaf to ask that question.

This is a very good topic you have created paapiman, because it is very relevant when talking about how some people perceive the wording in CharitarPakhiyan and believe that the Gurus could never have used such words. It reminds me of a time, when I was doing the Sikhi to the max hukamnama on screen, and the word "prostitute" came up in the english translation. The granthi avoided using the word, but the president had a go at me afterwards for putting it on and said that I should skip that line in future.
 
There is a shabad in Guru Granth Sahib where the term "stiff nipples" are used. Its there as a metaphor for someone who is young and full of emotions and stuff (i think), but the thing is it's there to teach.
Just like in school, you cannot be taught about reproduction/human body without using certain words.
 
 
 
But it isn't for everyone to understand. Look at the reaction from admin cut. It's just so hollow, it sound like a admin cut woman scolding her child for something. "Really, I am appalled..." Dear oh dear.
 
 
And like some deranged inadequate the admin cut just keeps on and on.
 
What a hypocrit. She disgraced herself a long time ago on this forum, and still hung around to admin cut.
On the other hand, paapiman you have brought a good topic to the forum, and after some of your recent efforts, it certainly is something I hope we will see more of.
 
 

Chaupi sahib is a part of charitarpkhyian. Do you want to discard that as we'll cause of your feminist views. 

​"The Sikh Religion" by the Sikh Missionary Center USA, quotes 50,000. No source given.
Hari Ram Gupta quotes Macgregor in the first battle of the Sikh army being 700 against 7000. IN the battle of Gurusar Gupta gives 1200 Sikhs dead.
Gupta then quotes Dabistan re the battle of Kartarpur of the Sikh army being 5000 strong.
I will look up more sources but feel 50,000 is looking excessive. Baba Banda Bahadurs' army in Sirhind Fateh is given as 30,000 strong.
 
 
​
I hear what you are saying but 10th Master rejected the Rajputs who were willing to take Amrit if their baata was seperate from the jats, gujars, jheevars etc. Guru Ji totally rejected them. Even in the face of hosiltities at that time, and considering the arsenal these hill chiefs were packing, they still could not have a seperate baata.
 

there you go with your 18th century again. the sources you mentioned. like they are spun gold or something.
your arguments are the same as what i would expect to find where my head is.
but you seem to want to cast things in stone over "extremely limited or not".
These oral sources are more dependable than the sources you depend on so much. No two written sources say the same thing, yet the Amrit Sinchar is identical in todays time. That would tell me that the process hasn't changed terribly over the 2 centuries.
what sources (eye-witness) do you have to say that Guru Ji gave gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib?

Neo the Khalistan movement brought out a lot of bravery and chivalry in many Sikhs. We have very good examples of Sukha/Jinda and their gang. Read about their exploits, you will be amazed. Then there were people like Avtar Singh Brahma, Toofan Singh and Arvinder Singh Goldy etc. I think the bravery and chivalry is still there in the Sikh psyche, but you have to take into account that wars are not fought aahmo-saamne anymore, and neither are the same weapons used.
If you look at the shaheedi of Bhai Avtar Singh Shattrana or Gurdev Singh Debu, you can see the spirit of the puratan Sikhs.

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.

Exactly. I mean why would people think Im a goat if my name is Chatanga.

Neo the Khalistan movement brought out a lot of bravery and chivalry in many Sikhs. We have very good examples of Sukha/Jinda and their gang. Read about their exploits, you will be amazed. Then there were people like Avtar Singh Brahma, Toofan Singh and Arvinder Singh Goldy etc. I think the bravery and chivalry is still there in the Sikh psyche, but you have to take into account that wars are not fought aahmo-saamne anymore, and neither are the same weapons used.
If you look at the shaheedi of Bhai Avtar Singh Shattrana or Gurdev Singh Debu, you can see the spirit of the puratan Sikhs.

Neo the Khalistan movement brought out a lot of bravery and chivalry in many Sikhs. We have very good examples of Sukha/Jinda and their gang. Read about their exploits, you will be amazed. Then there were people like Avtar Singh Brahma, Toofan Singh and Arvinder Singh Goldy etc. I think the bravery and chivalry is still there in the Sikh psyche, but you have to take into account that wars are not fought aahmo-saamne anymore, and neither are the same weapons used.
If you look at the shaheedi of Bhai Avtar Singh Shattrana or Gurdev Singh Debu, you can see the spirit of the puratan Sikhs.

The authencity of scripture does not rely on how people interpret and act upon it. Likewise the authencity of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not rely on whether Sikhs practice its teachings right or wrong.

Never thought if it that way Dally. Debates used to happen between Sikhs and others as we know from history.
Tark and Nijaj (debate and reasoning) are 2 of the fourteen gunn.

I have to add:
I think Guru ji actually created (or sanctioned - if you like) certain texts to stimulate debate and discussion - and the way certain DG compositions (most especially CP) do just this is a sign of their resounding success in this department. 

Also think that debates that raise controversy  or very strong feelings might need to be limited to registered members only. Reduces trolling

it wasn't even doen respectfully, sikhkhoj called Sant Gurbachan Singh "gurbachana"  a mockery of his name but that was allowed.

it wasn't even doen respectfully, sikhkhoj called Sant Gurbachan Singh "gurbachana"  a mockery of his name but that was allowed.

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.