BhagatSingh

Some tips I found very helpful in eating and drink with a long moustache and open beard! Anyone who is having trouble, ie getting their darhi covered with food and drinks, this video is for you! A lot of the tips can apply to Indian food too e.g. smaller burki size.

So rumours. Thanks. If you think SGGS is a person, that's your opinion. No need to keep repeating, I heard you the first time.


To everybody else,
Tell me if i am wrong. I think this whole masand incident was built on rumours or is a rumour itself. Are there any more pieces to this story that I am missing? pieces that are recorded and NOT just heard from a "famous gurmukh"?

​You mean criminalization of white race?
Btw isn't this what happened to Jews and Gypsies in Nazi Germany?
For those wondering what this has to do with feminism, it was a group of feminists that started this unfounded hate campaign.
 

Have you thought about making more videos on this topic?

Here Bhagat Kabir ji is describing a Samadhi specifically.

Sehaj avastha is the state of flow. Where you are focused on the task at hand. It does not have to be a Samadhi, although it can develop into Samadhi if there are no objects in consciousness.

A samadhi is focused solely on God, there are no objects in the consciousness. As Bhagat kabir ji describes - No seasons, no life, no death, no pleasure, no pain, no wind, no water, ... ie no objects, only God. If there are objects in consciousness, then it's not a state of samadhi but it can be a state of sehaj.
(God is not an object.)


I wouldn't say so. I am definintely not in sehaj most of the time because I am constantly making mental effort.
Sehaj is a state of mental effortlessness. Sometimes I am in state, at other times I am not.

And you can definitely be the subject of Sehaj, that is what Samadhi is. That is true subjectiveness.
If you are in a state of Sehaj, immersed in some sort of task, then that is true objectiveness.

I would say true objectiveness is where you are one with the object, one with every-thing.
True subjectiveness is where you are one with yourself, one with no-thing. As you said "state of being it as direct seer/experiencer/perceiver".

Or even do what he wants to do, maybe he wants to lift weights, train and wrestle.

There are movies like this on office space speaking to men to do that which they love. The guy has an epiphany and he leaves his job and does what he loves.

However for most men this is not possible because they have families. People depend on him to stick to a shitty job he hates so that they can eat. It's as simple as that.

Women today are working so that they can do just this. Cost of living keeps going up and women need to join the marketplace to earn a second income to support their families.

It's great for the government to be able to tax people and separate them from their kids. It's the system, it's not condusive to anyone's well-being.

Back then societies could focus on well-being of women and children at the expense of men. Nowadays, society focuses on the well-being of some systems at the expense of women and children, and especially men.

It's literally 'Matrix' out there.
----
Satkirin
You really ought to read beyond the words. In a job you are working under "someone else's kitchen", no matter what job you do. Whatever you do in the comfort of your own home is your own. Whatever you do at the job is on someone else's turf, under their terms and whims. You are gone if they want you gone, you slave if they want you to slave.

If it's not sales target it's some other job requirement. You are fulfilling someone else. Not your family, not yourself but someone company, some strangers or the government.

This is not power or freedom. Men do not consider this power or freedom, and those who do are deluded.

Most jobs are menial jobs. Most men and women out there are doing menial jobs. 90% of the population is doing shit they don't want to do anymore. 90% of the population wishes that they could do what they wanted for themselves.

I stopped reading at this point. I know you love the attention but this is not about you.

The reality is we have more freedom at home. I am happy if you want to go out an earn and pick up the load. But to pretend that it's all great and happy-go-tappy, la la land is bullshit.

Or even do what he wants to do, maybe he wants to lift weights, train and wrestle.

There are movies like this on office space speaking to men to do that which they love. The guy has an epiphany and he leaves his job and does what he loves.

However for most men this is not possible because they have families. People depend on him to stick to a shitty job he hates so that they can eat. It's as simple as that.

Women today are working so that they can do just this. Cost of living keeps going up and women need to join the marketplace to earn a second income to support their families.

It's great for the government to be able to tax people and separate them from their kids. It's the system, it's not condusive to anyone's well-being.

Back then societies could focus on well-being of women and children at the expense of men. Nowadays, society focuses on the well-being of some systems at the expense of women and children, and especially men.

It's literally 'Matrix' out there.
----
Satkirin
You really ought to read beyond the words. In a job you are working under "someone else's kitchen", no matter what job you do. Whatever you do in the comfort of your own home is your own. Whatever you do at the job is on someone else's turf, under their terms and whims. You are gone if they want you gone, you slave if they want you to slave.

If it's not sales target it's some other job requirement. You are fulfilling someone else. Not your family, not yourself but someone company, some strangers or the government.

This is not power or freedom. Men do not consider this power or freedom, and those who do are deluded.

Most jobs are menial jobs. Most men and women out there are doing menial jobs. 90% of the population is doing shit they don't want to do anymore. 90% of the population wishes that they could do what they wanted for themselves.

I stopped reading at this point. I know you love the attention but this is not about you.

The reality is we have more freedom at home. I am happy if you want to go out an earn and pick up the load. But to pretend that it's all great and happy-go-tappy, la la land is bullshit.

Dude don't you know? every Sikh is supposed to be a magician.
We should all be able to do this at any given time.

It's only available to Brahmgyanis.

Totally

That's perhaps the biggest hurdle in the spiritual quest!

That is interesting.
In SGGS, replace Womb-Mother with Maya. There would be another character the Father, Hari, who inseminates the mother, Maya, so that it gives birth to conscious creatures.

The mother, Maya, you can physically see. But the father, Hari, that one is much harder to figure out.

No unless you are living in lala land they can't. Unless you died or were removed from your rank. They can't take your place.
What if they all worked just as hard as you, were just as skilled as you. You'd think they'd all be in your rank?

That's not how the world works. Hierarchy is the law. If everyone is a general, no one is a general. Differences in capability, ability, skill, responsibilities, obligations, interests, etc, make up a hierarchical world.

Das kept trying to tell you is just that, that the world operates on duality. There are always differences in people, in relationships and people often polarize further in relationships. Relationships are based on this polarity. Husband wife, elders children, general soldier, guru sikh etc. Each part in the relationship is polarized and each part has its own responsibilities and obligations.

You talk about wife considering husband as God. Everyone should consider everyone as God. That's what Namaskar means. This is the ideal that everyone should see divinity in everyone else and treat them fairly.

In Indian culture-
Children are to consider their parents as God.
Adults have to consider their elders as God.
Children have to look to their parents for nourishment. They have to listen to their parents, once they grow up in to adults they have to take care of their elderly parents.
It's the parents' responsibility to love and take care of their children, and prepare them for adulthood.

But why are children constantly reminded to view their parents as God?
Because usually children are focused on their own play on other children. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their parents.
Similarly in Indian culture-
A wife is to consider her husband as God.
A wife has to look to her husband for nourishment. She has to listen to her husband and create a nice environment in the house for her children and husband. She has to prepare her daughters for adulthood and marriage.
Who is providing for the wife when she is undergoing pregnancies?
It's the husband's responsibility to love and take care of his children and wife and bring in resources for them and to protect them even if it means putting himself in the harms way. He has to train his son for adulthood and marriage. And has to send his daughters away to another home, once they are mature.

But why is the wife constantly reminded to view her husband as God?
Because usually wives are focused on their children and the elders. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their husbands.

Similarly in Indian culture-
A husband is to pay attention to God.
Why is Guru Sahib always reminding the men to pay attention to God, using metaphors of a Pati varta woman?
Because usually husbands are focused on their wives, children and elders. Thus why they must be reminded to pay attention towards God.

Tu data datar tera ditta khawna
You are the giver; whatever You give us, we eat.

This concept of paying attention to the one who is nourishing you, is huge!

The fact that you equate God with something negative is your thinking alone. To see someone as God is the ideal in Indian culture. To see someone as God means to give them your attention. Especially when that someone is providing for you. Naturally if someone is sustaining you, you should give them lots of attention. It's the least you can do.

God nourishes us, that's why we pay Him with lots of attention. In child-parent relationship the parent provides for the child. In husband-wife relationship, the husband provides for the wife. Whoever is providing for you, you should give them attention.

If you don't, it's a lop-sided relationship. It's unfair for the person who is working hard to sustain you. Whoever they are.

Indian society is based on the concept of fairness and reciprocity, and it is the ideal. This where karma comes from. It all revolves around the concept of fairness and reciprocating when someone is providing for you.

Now there's always people who don't fit in. We have many examples of folks who didn't fit in, who just did their own thing. Who left societal norms and lived their own life.
Last time we spoke, I gave you the example of Mira Bai. She was deeply involved in Bhagti and wrote and sang lots of shabads. The life of the householder was not for her. She was devoted to God.

People who are not into society, they leave society and do their own thing.
E.g. Ascetics go off into the jungles, mountains and caves and do their own thing.

But men and women who are sitting in meditation in a cave somewhere cannot create a society. They must come together and take up certain responsibilities, to split up the labour amongst themselves.

Society cannot be built around men and women who do not create a family. So in order for society to go on, their members must have certain responsibilities and obligations. Otherwise it would die off.

This what Indian culture is based around, is creating a fair society, where it's members are treated fairly. Members like Paapiman who are posting here come from this Indian background. They are reciprocating within their society and describing ideal ways for others to reciprocate back.

Taking offense at their statements without understanding their frame of reference is a bad idea.

No unless you are living in lala land they can't. Unless you died or were removed from your rank. They can't take your place.
What if they all worked just as hard as you, were just as skilled as you. You'd think they'd all be in your rank?

That's not how the world works. Hierarchy is the law. If everyone is a general, no one is a general. Differences in capability, ability, skill, responsibilities, obligations, interests, etc, make up a hierarchical world.

Das kept trying to tell you is just that, that the world operates on duality. There are always differences in people, in relationships and people often polarize further in relationships. Relationships are based on this polarity. Husband wife, elders children, general soldier, guru sikh etc. Each part in the relationship is polarized and each part has its own responsibilities and obligations.

You talk about wife considering husband as God. Everyone should consider everyone as God. That's what Namaskar means. This is the ideal that everyone should see divinity in everyone else and treat them fairly.

In Indian culture-
Children are to consider their parents as God.
Adults have to consider their elders as God.
Children have to look to their parents for nourishment. They have to listen to their parents, once they grow up in to adults they have to take care of their elderly parents.
It's the parents' responsibility to love and take care of their children, and prepare them for adulthood.

But why are children constantly reminded to view their parents as God?
Because usually children are focused on their own play on other children. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their parents.
Similarly in Indian culture-
A wife is to consider her husband as God.
A wife has to look to her husband for nourishment. She has to listen to her husband and create a nice environment in the house for her children and husband. She has to prepare her daughters for adulthood and marriage.
Who is providing for the wife when she is undergoing pregnancies?
It's the husband's responsibility to love and take care of his children and wife and bring in resources for them and to protect them even if it means putting himself in the harms way. He has to train his son for adulthood and marriage. And has to send his daughters away to another home, once they are mature.

But why is the wife constantly reminded to view her husband as God?
Because usually wives are focused on their children and the elders. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their husbands.

Similarly in Indian culture-
A husband is to pay attention to God.
Why is Guru Sahib always reminding the men to pay attention to God, using metaphors of a Pati varta woman?
Because usually husbands are focused on their wives, children and elders. Thus why they must be reminded to pay attention towards God.

Tu data datar tera ditta khawna
You are the giver; whatever You give us, we eat.

This concept of paying attention to the one who is nourishing you, is huge!

The fact that you equate God with something negative is your thinking alone. To see someone as God is the ideal in Indian culture. To see someone as God means to give them your attention. Especially when that someone is providing for you. Naturally if someone is sustaining you, you should give them lots of attention. It's the least you can do.

God nourishes us, that's why we pay Him with lots of attention. In child-parent relationship the parent provides for the child. In husband-wife relationship, the husband provides for the wife. Whoever is providing for you, you should give them attention.

If you don't, it's a lop-sided relationship. It's unfair for the person who is working hard to sustain you. Whoever they are.

Indian society is based on the concept of fairness and reciprocity, and it is the ideal. This where karma comes from. It all revolves around the concept of fairness and reciprocating when someone is providing for you.

Now there's always people who don't fit in. We have many examples of folks who didn't fit in, who just did their own thing. Who left societal norms and lived their own life.
Last time we spoke, I gave you the example of Mira Bai. She was deeply involved in Bhagti and wrote and sang lots of shabads. The life of the householder was not for her. She was devoted to God.

People who are not into society, they leave society and do their own thing.
E.g. Ascetics go off into the jungles, mountains and caves and do their own thing.

But men and women who are sitting in meditation in a cave somewhere cannot create a society. They must come together and take up certain responsibilities, to split up the labour amongst themselves.

Society cannot be built around men and women who do not create a family. So in order for society to go on, their members must have certain responsibilities and obligations. Otherwise it would die off.

This what Indian culture is based around, is creating a fair society, where it's members are treated fairly. Members like Paapiman who are posting here come from this Indian background. They are reciprocating within their society and describing ideal ways for others to reciprocate back.

Taking offense at their statements without understanding their frame of reference is a bad idea.

Your post begs to differ.
Sikhi is about learning to develop Bhagti through the guidance of a Guru. Bhagti is a tool for self-transcendence.

Bhagti becomes an advantage for those who do bhagti. You have an advantage when you do Bhagti.

That's all it is.

Now you don't stop there. You start bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with self-transcendence, bhagti etc, stuff that is not Sikhi specific.

Be honest. Your are not just concerned with Sikhi specifically.

Your post begs to differ.
Sikhi is about learning to develop Bhagti through the guidance of a Guru. Bhagti is a tool for self-transcendence.

Bhagti becomes an advantage for those who do bhagti. You have an advantage when you do Bhagti.

That's all it is.

Now you don't stop there. You start bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with self-transcendence, bhagti etc, stuff that is not Sikhi specific.

That's a cool new idea. I'll give that a try next time I am pissed.

N3O have you ever had the desire to capture a e.g. beautiful sunset with a cell-phone?

N3O you left out the part where the guys says - ਚੌਪਈ : ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹੁਕਮ ਖਾਲਸੈ ਭਯੋ । ਮਸੰਦ ਭੇਟ ਚੰਡੀ ਕਰ ਦਯੋ । Satiguru ordered the Khalsa, to sacrifice all masands to Chandi.

ਕਈ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਈ ਨੀਹ ਚਣਾਇ । ਕਈ ਘਸੀਟ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਈ ਤੇਲ ਤਲਾਇ ।੧੬। Some were killed by weapons, others were bricked alive. Some were dragged by horses and killed, others were tortured in boiling oil.

What I find interesting here is that that this guy claims that Guru Gobind Singh ji used the same methods of execution that the Mughals used on Sikhs. I don't know what to make of that. I find that a bit hard to believe to be honest.

Did Guru Gobind Singh ji really tell these guys to torture masands? Or did these gus just do that shit all by themselves and lied that Guru Gobind Singh ji told them to do it?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter.

I having a hard time making sense of this.

N3O you left out the part where the guys says - ਚੌਪਈ : ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹੁਕਮ ਖਾਲਸੈ ਭਯੋ । ਮਸੰਦ ਭੇਟ ਚੰਡੀ ਕਰ ਦਯੋ । Satiguru ordered the Khalsa, to sacrifice all masands to Chandi.

ਕਈ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਈ ਨੀਹ ਚਣਾਇ । ਕਈ ਘਸੀਟ ਮਾਰੇ ਕਈ ਤੇਲ ਤਲਾਇ ।੧੬। Some were killed by weapons, others were bricked alive. Some were dragged by horses and killed, others were tortured in boiling oil.

What I find interesting here is that that this guy claims that Guru Gobind Singh ji used the same methods of execution that the Mughals used on Sikhs. I don't know what to make of that. I find that a bit hard to believe to be honest.

Yes this can't be turned into a belief. That's not good enough. It has to be experienced. It has to be something you come to know.

Well that's the word that Guru Sahibs love.
Creation and creator are separate because that is how He created us.
Sanjog (merging) Vijog (separting) duay kaar chalavai (He operates them both)

It is a reality that we are separate from HIm but we can merge with him.

You are making an error in that you think Gurus are pure advaitists, they are not. They are vishisht-advaitists, thus "Merging back" is the perfect phrase.

If by 'freefall' you mean, falling deeper and deeper into a concentrated state, into the darkness of the void. Then 'freefall' is spot on.

Good luck in your endeavour!


If you are looking for a bigger reply. I wrote this one a different thread a while back. It maybe useful.

It don't get any clearer than this -

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
In Satyug, You enjoyed deceiving and liberating King Bali in the Vaman avtar.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
In Treta, You loved being called King Ram, of the Raghu Dynasty.
ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
In Dwapar, You, Krishan Murara, killed Kans and saved everyone.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
You granted Kingship to Ugrasain and elevated your devotees.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
In Kaliyug, You came as Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amardas.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥
The rule of Guru Sahibs is unchanging, unmovable, by His very command.

Guru Granth Sahib, 1390

I'll keep it brief.

Gurbani says Gurus are avtaars of God.

Start with this post -

-----
Done reading?

These are good questions -
1. Why Mool Mantra says God does not take birth or death (formless) and that all forms occur within God?

Ajuni means not limited to birth and death. He is not bound to Joon, any life form. He is beyond birth and death meaning He transcends life forms!

Bhagat Namdev ji says
ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਤੂ ਮਾਤਾ ਦੇਵਕੀ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਰਮਈਆ ਕਵਲਾਪਤੀ ॥੨॥
Blessed are you (Krishan ji's) Mother Devaki, in your home the all-pervading Lord of Maya was born.

He still takes avtaars. He is not the physical shell of the Avtaar, He is the Avtaar Himself.

The Bhatts say
ਸਦ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਅਰਜੁਨੁ ਅਮੋਲੁ ਆਜੋਨੀ ਸੰਭਉ ॥
Guru Arjun you are All Life-forms, yet you trancend life forms (Ajuni), you are invaluable and self-existent.

(The Ajuni takes birth? Most sikhs gona have a heartattack at this point lol)

2. Why did Guru Nanak Dev Ji disappear for three days at the river where he was said to be in 'presence of' that divine and had the revelation revealed to him about reality... Of Which he wrote down as Mool Mantra?

Well the brain has to learn at some point for what purpose it was created. Even Ram Chandar ji learned he was God through a guru. The guru had to remind Him!

(That's why gurbani places so much stress on listening to the guru!)
3. Why he would claim that he is but a servant of God?

He said it
1. because he wants you to say it! Sikhs sing his shabads and repeat his words. Guru sahib wants to embed his teachings inside you.

2. because at that time, perhaps due to Muslim presence, it would have been problematic to say "I am God".
Saying "I am god" was largely misunderstood by most. People take it as a sign of hankar, rather than pure humility. So Guru Sahibs and other saints avoided that route.

Back then Krishan ji was able to tell Arjun that because Arjun was receptive to that idea. Arjun didn't misunderstand it and he was enlightened thereafter, when Krishan ji shows him what He looks like.