das

Or even do what he wants to do, maybe he wants to lift weights, train and wrestle.

There are movies like this on office space speaking to men to do that which they love. The guy has an epiphany and he leaves his job and does what he loves.

However for most men this is not possible because they have families. People depend on him to stick to a shitty job he hates so that they can eat. It's as simple as that.

Women today are working so that they can do just this. Cost of living keeps going up and women need to join the marketplace to earn a second income to support their families.

It's great for the government to be able to tax people and separate them from their kids. It's the system, it's not condusive to anyone's well-being.

Back then societies could focus on well-being of women and children at the expense of men. Nowadays, society focuses on the well-being of some systems at the expense of women and children, and especially men.

It's literally 'Matrix' out there.
----
Satkirin
You really ought to read beyond the words. In a job you are working under "someone else's kitchen", no matter what job you do. Whatever you do in the comfort of your own home is your own. Whatever you do at the job is on someone else's turf, under their terms and whims. You are gone if they want you gone, you slave if they want you to slave.

If it's not sales target it's some other job requirement. You are fulfilling someone else. Not your family, not yourself but someone company, some strangers or the government.

This is not power or freedom. Men do not consider this power or freedom, and those who do are deluded.

Most jobs are menial jobs. Most men and women out there are doing menial jobs. 90% of the population is doing shit they don't want to do anymore. 90% of the population wishes that they could do what they wanted for themselves.

I stopped reading at this point. I know you love the attention but this is not about you.

The reality is we have more freedom at home. I am happy if you want to go out an earn and pick up the load. But to pretend that it's all great and happy-go-tappy, la la land is bullshit.

I cannot believe some sikhs are criticizing him for committing beadhi for not wearing another dastar under neath for taking off his dastar..seriously? This is where you want to know the draw clear concise line between karam kaand/dogmatic mindset and real practical mindset of turning physical symbolism into serve help. Sikhi is practical religion.

If you say Guru Nanak patsah greater than SGGSJ or SGGSJ greater than Guru Nanak patsah or u say Guru Ramdass patsah greater than Guru Gobind singh JI maharaj and vice versa.Does that make sense???? When one jot(of any jeev atma) merges with true/greatest jot of akal purkh,then there remains no difference between two.
As garbage on dissolving in ocean ,remains with no existence ,same happens in case of brahmgyan.But still we can ONLY talk ,can't put the TRUTH in words.
So,it's quite better to ask waheguru Ji for any doubts rather than to blame this and that.
WJKKWJKF!!

Because becoming Brahamgyan isn't restricted to only Sikhs! Amrit is instruction for Sikhs. Becoming Brahamgyan (reaching that state) is not reserved for only Sikhs. And there is no rule God made saying that if you are a Sikh you can never reach that state without doing this rule or that rule etc. The term is being misused I think. You guys are trying to attach a label of someone who follows a set of rules, is learned in certain Sikh traditions, and calling THAT Brahamgyani. But the Brahamgyani is above all religions! They are people who have become spiritually realized. And yes even a Sikh who has not taken Amrit can become spiritually realized. We are told that the truth is within ourselves. So anyone can find this truth. Finding this divine truth is Brahamgyan. Not following RMs, how many rules you can follow, how many things you can lock yourself away from or deny, how much literature you can read. That does not make someone a Brahamgyani. Brahamgyani is someone who becomes one with God... and acts as God in everything they do, say, and think even. They treat ALL equally, do only good for others, charity, see all humans as one and dont think any evil in any way. They have realized the truth. Nowhere is there a requisite that to reach this state you have to believe in ANY specific book or granth, or even be Sikh. And if you are Sikh, you can STILL find this truth... having never read Dasam Granth or taken Amrit.

It's not a label given for 'most dedicated Sikh' it's a spiritual realized state where that person no longer sees themself separate from God. You are using wrong meaning of the term Brahamgyani!

How would nonsikhs be any different? Truth is truth. Becoming Brahamgyani is not a rule or mere label given for following a speciific set of rules. It's referring to the actual spiritual state itself.

When doing gurmantar jaap just make the mind listen to what is being said whether reciting verbally or mentally. It will slowly learn to sit still and listen.

I dont know why ,but that made me LOL.As I think,This is the True Maya/illusion.This is a Big trap of Kal to deciet a soul by creating doubts.When such question arises in anyone's mind,leads to doubting the stature of true Brahmgyani.Why the most of souls like me are still wandering in search of a true satpursh.? This is the main reason.Maya has created a such trap,a such network that we become so suspicious and our minds start doubting every object.Only, with grace of waheguru,this is understandable.When a TRUE BRAHMGYANI shows his mercy,then the lucky one is true winner of this game and then he can well understand the reality.But Then he becomes silent.Silent in name of God! And still it's a puzzle for others.

I am going to make a deep metaphorical statement here borrowed from someone:
Husbands do bow down to their wives. ... in a different way....
Those who are married will understand that ^.

What does it matter who has more lust?
Real question is how much we have ,and what are we doing to get rid of it.

Satkirin,
if you follow SRM, obviosuly that does not make you a lesser sikh. you should choose whatever works for you, in the longer run these minor things wont make a big difference.

I am very open to letting individuals do their own thing. I really do believe that every Sikh Human Being is different. What works for one person might not work for another. So we should let people choose whatever minor path they like within the Core Sikhi. I believe in diversity in Sikhism.

I only hate those people who want to tamper around with the integrity of Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Granth and do nindya of Sants. These people I cannot tolerate. Everyone else if good.

Too right bro!
You have to practice and experience the Truth by practical approaches per self and per soul.
It's no good debating and arguing the truth if you've never even made the decent efforts to try and merge with Sat....to experience His presence....to feel his divine love...
When you do it with your truest intentions...you will automatically rise above these debates and arguments....you will rise above both Ustat and Nindya.......you will realize just how much life and breaths you have wasted arguing over what you thought was the truth.
You will realize just how clever those 'peredhaar'....the panj dhuts, kram, krodh, lobh, moh,and ahankar are in the trickery they use to fool you!

You can waste your whole life praising and debating over the glories of your jatha, but it won't take you anywhere near the Truth, unless you try and practice it.

Does the truth, the Sat...talk and justify itself ?
or do the 5 dhuts, the peredhaars of your mind... fool you so well into thinking that they are the truth?

You know guys..... sikhi is about finding this out for yourselves....per individual person...per soul.

Great, on track.

One should move towards the common higher goal and take what resonates with you and leave what doesn't; afterall in the beginning and at end it will only be ONE (the higher goal) and rest in between is all Illusion (with a Hint of Source in the middle to remind us about HIM).

A lot of this discussion lately has gotten me thinking... was Sikhi maybe meant to be adaptable? One faith for all time and all people? Guru Gobind Singh Ji even himself diverted to panthic decision on things. And authority was given to Panj Pyaras after creation of the Khalsa. Were they given authority so that rigid rules would be enforced through them, or perhaps that they were given the authority to interpret Gurbani and evolve Sikhi?

Up to the point of the creation of the Khalsa, Sikhi had already evolved for 200 years. It was not a religion founded in a day. Each Guru successively contributed to it over those two centuries. Then, something wonderful happened. Guru Gobind Singh Ji felt that Sikhs had established themselves enough to start thinking for themselves. All pertinent information was there, compiled in Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Guruship passed to SGGSJ. I don't think it coincidence that this is also the point in history when the Khalsa was created, and authority for decision being given to Panj Pyaras from that point onward.

1) Authorty for desicions given to Panj Pyaras
2) The tool for them to interpret decisions based on... SGGSJ

This highly suggests that Sikhi was purposely created to be adaptable, changeable... to truly be a religion for all time and all people. Certainly the core beliefs, the truth about Creator, reality, Maya, etc are unchangeable. But the interpretation of practice as it pertains to current social and cultural ideologies, is ever changing. (There is more than one way to arrive at the truth) And panthic decision can adapt Sikhi so that the core truth to reality remains unchanged, but so that Sikhi spreads instead of dies out, so that different cultures and societies can find themselves associating with it.

For this reason, it was inevitible that deifferent sects have sprung up over the years since. And we should repsect them all. No one sect should consider themselves as the 'original' or 'puratan' because Guru Ji did not create sects... he created the Khalsa only. Though there are minor differences in the Rehet Maryadas... Id say over 95% is the same. And the parts that are the same are what matters. And whoever you take Amrit from, you should abide by the authority given to the panj Pyaras. If they go by SRM and have women as Panj Pyaras, then you should not balk at them. If DDT interprets it as women being in subordination to men, then I will no longer question them. I will respect them as a different offshoot... but just as much Sikh as I am. I only hope they also respect me as such. Because I must abide by the Rehet Maryada passed to me when I take Amrit. The parts that matter... the core beliefs, we follow are the same. I must abide by the same bujjar kurehits as DDT. I must keep the same 5 kakkars, read my nitnem daily, do simran, do seva, refrain from useless ritual, etc. So we are all way more alike than we are different.

At some point, all the sects started as one. And at some point their interpretations have adapted to the times, the cultures, the society around them. But none really go against SGGSJ. And that authority to make the decisions to adapt was given to them by Guru JI himself. So it hurts me when I see that AKJ is called a cult because they treat women as equals and have them in Panj Pyaras. They are some of the most dedicated Sikhs I have seen when it comes to simran and nitnem and living in Sikhi saroop. I have seen many dedicated DDT Singhs too, though they disagree on the place of women in Sikhi, that works for them in their surroundings, and women have the choice to follow AKJ etc. Nobody is forcing anyone to take Amrit with a certain sect.

There seems to be so much emphasis on here of SInghs trying to emmulate the exact beginning or be the most 'puratan' etc. and then using that to degrade others who follow other sects. Mostly those who follow SRM are on the receiving end, but I digress... But maybe Guru Ji meant for us instead to continue growing and evolving Sikhi. Maybe instead of focusing on the past, focus on the here and now and practice Sikhi how best fits for you. I don't think the goal of Sikhi is to scour every document in history to find reasons to follow exactly evry rule or every interpretation of the very first. By their own example, the Gurus showed us Sikhi can continue to grow. Guru Ji would never have given authority for Panj Pyaras to make decisions if their goal was simply to enforce a strict set of rules that were to forever be written in stone. But he gave them the ability to think, and to make decisions. And he provided the tool for them to base their decisions on. By its very nature, Gurbani is able to be interpreted in many different ways (as we have seen). So it was inevitible for Sikhi to evolve, and it was inevitible for different sects to develop.

So... maybe this was his intention all along?

In conclusion, instead of attack each other for our differing views on the small minor things (do you really think Akal Purakh really cares how many nitnem banis we say each morning? I think God would care more about our dedication to reciting the ones that we do... quality over quantity... just as an example) But it doesnt mean its wrong to recite more or less of them... as long as the dedication is there. Remember there is not someone there counting every time you do nitnem... its actually done by YOU for YOUR OWN benefit, to awaken something within you...not to appease a personal diety (as in some other religions). So instead of arguing over the tiny differences like that, why can't we just agree to disagree on those things, recignize that decisions were made throughout Sikhi history which caused these minor differences but that neither are wrong in the end!

So after much deliberation, I have decided that my soul best ressonates with Sikh Rehet Maryada. So I will still take Amrit as I planned... in Kashmir, where SRM is followed universally. I have come to realize that SRM (like GRM etc) is not fake, or somehow un-authentic at all. Because it came into existence through panthic decision (even if not ALL members of the panth agree with it). Panj Pyaras who at some point made the decision to interpret Gurbani in the way that ultimately led to the Sikh Rehet Maryada, were actually in accordance with this authority given to them by Guru Ji. So this makes it valid. Yes, even the bits that state women can be Panj Pyaras, because this decision too was made ultimately at some point by Panj Pyaras who exercised this authority given by Guru Ji to make decisions. This doesn't make DDT's GRM invalid...they can co-exist as two differing interpretations but both are valid and correct, as long as the core beliefs and values remain the same. And the core beliefs and values are what are directly taught in SGGSJ.

So what is your opinion? And please keep comments about specific jathas or sects to yourself. This post is meant to be positive not negative. It's not to shoot down one or the other. It's to uplift ALL of them as being valid, just speaking to different groups of people. The purpose of this post was to discuss Sikhi as an adaptable and evolving faith and if it was possibly made this way on purpose by Guru Ji. The way it was done certainly suggests that it was done on purpose in my mind... how about you?

Satkiran,

Personally speaking if I were in your shoes I would be more concerned about what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says about who or where is God.

har santahu daykhhu nadar kar nikat vasai bharpoor.
O Saints, see clearly that the Lord is near at hand; He is pervading everywhere.

Ang 68

parabh nikat vasai sabhnaa ghat antar gurmukh virlai jaataa.
God is close at hand; He dwells deep within the hearts of all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, know Him.

165

aisaa mayraa raam rahi-aa bharpoor.
Such is my Lord, who is all-pervading everywhere.

nikat vasai naahee har door. ||1|| rahaa-o.
He dwells near at hand - the Lord is not far away. ||1||Pause||

Har aapay sabad surat dhun aapay.
The Lord Himself is the Word of the Shabad. He Himself is the awareness, attuned to its music.

Guys , please before we start claiming saints said this and that and claiming they are wrong.

Please try to understand the crowd which above discourse is addressed to and reason for saint discourse..It's from celibacy point of view for celibates and their life style. Thats a right discourse as its meant to be properly contextualized to only celibates.

Take on Kaam is quite different from gristhi (marriage house holder) life style.

Yes, I agree that the neutral source is Gurbani. Gurbani is written so that we do understand what we really are and help us on our path to Source. IT is providing tips to recoginize how Maya is hindering our progress and yet we (including me) indugle in the same black and white world. IT is not written to prove something in this physical plane; IT is using examples from the physical plane to make a point so that we can understand. You might be aware that 10th Guru did not add His Bani to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

In other words (as per my understanding), Sikhism (via Guru Granth Sahib Ji) teaches a Bhagti movement which was even present in the past before Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The only difference is that time this time it is compiled in a more formal way and for the wider audience, for their betterment.

But anyway, you keep on saying women aren't allowed to this and that but let me tell you that my Mother (so does my cousin sisters, wife, and daughters) DOES participate (in Sikhi) each and every way they want. Noone is ever asked them not to do this and that. Yes, there are certain rigid people who does say that only Amritdhari people can do path of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but that does NOT change the inner path of my mother? No. She understands that even if someone would stop her from performing path seva, they cannot stop her from going higher in the Spiritual path. Doing Path seva is not the only way to go to God. She does understand this is the world with duality where everyone is illusioned with something.

In-fact it is my Mother who is leading me to the Spiritual path.

After seeing some discussions on the other threads about atma, soul and God within us and God in Gurus, maybe some further discussion is helpful.

Kabirji says the same thing about how we rant on and on about our Mind and soul, whilst at the same time using this mind's intellect in doing so!

ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥
Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā.
There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies.

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥
Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36||
Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36||


Jio/atma/soul/ are the same thing.
These last pangtis (the jio ek ar sagal sareera) come after a number that are contemplating the MIND and questioning the mann.
they say........

ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਨਾਰਦ ਮੁਨਿ ਸੇਖਾ ॥
Sankāḏik nāraḏ mun sekẖā.
Even sages like Sanak and Naarad, and the thousand-headed serpent,

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਪੇਖਾ ॥੩॥
Ŧin bẖī ṯan mėh man nahī pekẖā. ||3||
did not see the mind within the body. ||3||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਕੋਈ ਖੋਜਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥
Is man ka▫o ko▫ī kẖojahu bẖā▫ī.
Anyone can search for this mind, O Siblings of Destiny.

ਤਨ ਛੂਟੇ ਮਨੁ ਕਹਾ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੪॥
Ŧan cẖẖūte man kahā samā▫ī. ||4||
When it escapes from the body, where does the mind go? ||4||

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਨਾਮਾਂ ॥
Gur parsādī jaiḏe▫o nāmāʼn.
By Guru's Grace, Jai Dayv and Naam Dayv

ਭਗਤਿ ਕੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਮਿ ਇਨ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੫॥
Bẖagaṯ kai parem in hī hai jānāʼn. ||5||
came to know this, through loving devotional worship of the Lord. ||5||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਨਹੀ ਆਵਨ ਜਾਨਾ ॥
Is man ka▫o nahī āvan jānā.
This mind does not come or go.

ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਇਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥੬॥
Jis kā bẖaram ga▫i▫ā ṯin sācẖ pacẖẖānā. ||6||
One whose doubt is dispelled, knows the Truth. ||6||

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ਕਾਈ ॥
Is man ka▫o rūp na rekẖ▫i▫ā kā▫ī.
This mind has no form or outline.

ਹੁਕਮੇ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝਿ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੭॥
Hukme ho▫i▫ā hukam būjẖ samā▫ī. ||7||
By God's Command it was created; understanding God's Command, it will be absorbed into Him again. ||7||

ਇਸ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨੈ ਭੇਉ ॥
Is man kā ko▫ī jānai bẖe▫o.
Does anyone know the secret of this mind?

ਇਹ ਮਨਿ ਲੀਣ ਭਏ ਸੁਖਦੇਉ ॥੮॥
Ih man līṇ bẖa▫e sukẖ▫ḏe▫o. ||8||
This mind shall merge into the Lord, the Giver of peace and pleasure. ||8||
Kabirji is talking about the mind
He is saying "jio ek sagal sareera" because of what we do with our MIND....
You see we all say there is One God, Christians say it, jews say it, muslims say it....
The whole world around Kabirji is talking about the ONE God....just like they do today....but that's it...All talk , chatter,... discuss..but no real uddam or efforts to find Him.

All using their Mind's intellect to discuss the ONE parbrahm.......he is everywhere, in everything...but that's it !......how about experiencing ?

Remember that in gurbani it also mentions a few times....we are like different pots of clay with the same water inside.......just differently decorated on the outside but the inside has the same jal
....yet our mind's attach that same Water/Ji/ God/atma soul to the body and repeatedly discuss...discuss.... and wonder where is mind from, where does it go......etc...

In light of this, Kabirji is telling us 'WAKE UP'' because that same God-soul/water is right inside you.

No good just discussing....Do bhakti and GO WITHIN, find him right inside yourself.
We can carry on discussing until life end, but it is NO USE unless you make the effort to find that SAME God-soul that is INSIDE ALL of us.
God SOUL is very close and within us but by going around discussing and doing Mann vichaar of saying "Yes of course God is inside all of us" we are attaching and associating the Mind to the outer maya with discussions....which leads to EGO. ...We have to find ways of dissociating with this instead.
By associating we make a distinctive line showing MIND is separate from ATMA,,,and this makes the duality....the same Ego.

Simply put ,GOD + EGO= us individuals...manukhs,.. the pots with the water
If You go WITHIN and start doing bakti, then slowly you will start to merge bit by bit and in doing so, begin to shed that EGO, layer by layer..
then in simple math......... GOD - (minus) EGO = God, pure atma, sachkhand...where no ego or identity of mind remains. The mind is jyot saroop.
I said above that Kabirji's "Ji-o ek sagal sarira" is a WAKE-UP to us since, he is saying Kao-rav rahe..to dwell upon this Ji-o Ik in our body, rather than discussing the mind as in the prior pangtis.

ਜੀਉ ਏਕੁ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਸਰੀਰਾ ॥
Jī▫o ek ar sagal sarīrā.
There is One Soul, and it pervades all bodies.

ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੇ ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥੯॥੧॥੩੬॥
Is man ka▫o rav rahe kabīrā. ||9||1||36||
Kabeer dwells upon this Mind. ||9||1||36||


With regards to this wake up, he finishes the shabad on this line and continues with raag gwaarayree with...

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ॥
Gauree Gwaarayree:

ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਜੋ ਜਾਗੇ ॥
Ahinis ek nām jo jāge.
Those who are awake to the One Name, day and night -

ਕੇਤਕ ਸਿਧ ਭਏ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Keṯak siḏẖ bẖa▫e liv lāge. ||1|| rahā▫o.
many of them have become Siddhas - perfect spiritual beings - with their consciousness attuned to the Lord. ||1||Pause||

How are they awake ?? don't their bodies sleep ??..
Yes, the bodies sleep, but the water inside the pot is always jagat,
The Atma soul is untouchable and remains the active force of the universe, no matter what it is cased in.
They have merged their Mann Chit - mind consciousness with the EK Atma-soul inside them.
And How would they do that ?
answer - Bhakti, just like perfect siddhas.

No unless you are living in lala land they can't. Unless you died or were removed from your rank. They can't take your place.
What if they all worked just as hard as you, were just as skilled as you. You'd think they'd all be in your rank?

That's not how the world works. Hierarchy is the law. If everyone is a general, no one is a general. Differences in capability, ability, skill, responsibilities, obligations, interests, etc, make up a hierarchical world.

Das kept trying to tell you is just that, that the world operates on duality. There are always differences in people, in relationships and people often polarize further in relationships. Relationships are based on this polarity. Husband wife, elders children, general soldier, guru sikh etc. Each part in the relationship is polarized and each part has its own responsibilities and obligations.

You talk about wife considering husband as God. Everyone should consider everyone as God. That's what Namaskar means. This is the ideal that everyone should see divinity in everyone else and treat them fairly.

In Indian culture-
Children are to consider their parents as God.
Adults have to consider their elders as God.
Children have to look to their parents for nourishment. They have to listen to their parents, once they grow up in to adults they have to take care of their elderly parents.
It's the parents' responsibility to love and take care of their children, and prepare them for adulthood.

But why are children constantly reminded to view their parents as God?
Because usually children are focused on their own play on other children. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their parents.
Similarly in Indian culture-
A wife is to consider her husband as God.
A wife has to look to her husband for nourishment. She has to listen to her husband and create a nice environment in the house for her children and husband. She has to prepare her daughters for adulthood and marriage.
Who is providing for the wife when she is undergoing pregnancies?
It's the husband's responsibility to love and take care of his children and wife and bring in resources for them and to protect them even if it means putting himself in the harms way. He has to train his son for adulthood and marriage. And has to send his daughters away to another home, once they are mature.

But why is the wife constantly reminded to view her husband as God?
Because usually wives are focused on their children and the elders. This is why they must be reminded to pay attention towards their husbands.

Similarly in Indian culture-
A husband is to pay attention to God.
Why is Guru Sahib always reminding the men to pay attention to God, using metaphors of a Pati varta woman?
Because usually husbands are focused on their wives, children and elders. Thus why they must be reminded to pay attention towards God.

Tu data datar tera ditta khawna
You are the giver; whatever You give us, we eat.

This concept of paying attention to the one who is nourishing you, is huge!

The fact that you equate God with something negative is your thinking alone. To see someone as God is the ideal in Indian culture. To see someone as God means to give them your attention. Especially when that someone is providing for you. Naturally if someone is sustaining you, you should give them lots of attention. It's the least you can do.

God nourishes us, that's why we pay Him with lots of attention. In child-parent relationship the parent provides for the child. In husband-wife relationship, the husband provides for the wife. Whoever is providing for you, you should give them attention.

If you don't, it's a lop-sided relationship. It's unfair for the person who is working hard to sustain you. Whoever they are.

Indian society is based on the concept of fairness and reciprocity, and it is the ideal. This where karma comes from. It all revolves around the concept of fairness and reciprocating when someone is providing for you.

Now there's always people who don't fit in. We have many examples of folks who didn't fit in, who just did their own thing. Who left societal norms and lived their own life.
Last time we spoke, I gave you the example of Mira Bai. She was deeply involved in Bhagti and wrote and sang lots of shabads. The life of the householder was not for her. She was devoted to God.

People who are not into society, they leave society and do their own thing.
E.g. Ascetics go off into the jungles, mountains and caves and do their own thing.

But men and women who are sitting in meditation in a cave somewhere cannot create a society. They must come together and take up certain responsibilities, to split up the labour amongst themselves.

Society cannot be built around men and women who do not create a family. So in order for society to go on, their members must have certain responsibilities and obligations. Otherwise it would die off.

This what Indian culture is based around, is creating a fair society, where it's members are treated fairly. Members like Paapiman who are posting here come from this Indian background. They are reciprocating within their society and describing ideal ways for others to reciprocate back.

Taking offense at their statements without understanding their frame of reference is a bad idea.

Your post begs to differ.
Sikhi is about learning to develop Bhagti through the guidance of a Guru. Bhagti is a tool for self-transcendence.

Bhagti becomes an advantage for those who do bhagti. You have an advantage when you do Bhagti.

That's all it is.

Now you don't stop there. You start bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with self-transcendence, bhagti etc, stuff that is not Sikhi specific.

Satkirin_Kaur,
You seem to be considering yourself seeing beyond the physical traits but you end up going deeper into physical aspect. Understand the play, the more you try to go beyond, the more you go deeper into the same which you fight against. It is bound to happen if we don't understand the things properly. So, you end up being on the other side of the argument and NOT going beyond it.

There is a triangle: Neutral (at top) from which comes the duality (Positive and Negative).

First of all, if you've choosen Sikhism just because of the equality concept then from my point of view, its really sad. You can follow any kind of equality by being an atheist; what's the harm in being an atheist? So, again, think about YOUR choice if you're attracted to Sikhism just because of some equality OR because of the Truth?

One should follow any religion (Sikhism being one of them) IFF he/she is looking for some disciple which would eventually lead one to God via some technique.

Now the question of gender equality: There are 2 different points of view. Read this carefully without any prejudice.
1. First point of view is from the Creator's view; i.e in order to reach the Source, gender/caste/creed/karma/good-vs-bad/any-other-duality does NOT matter. It is because all is Him and everyone has equal rights. This is what is taught in real Spiritual schools or in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Second point of view is from the Mind/Time/Kal's view; i.e the entity who is responsible for the working of this universe. He has created a set of rules: karma/duality in every aspect of life. From this point of view, it does matter if a person is born in a criminal enviornment vs the person born in Spiritual family. Now, as per the FIRST point of view, both persons does have equal rights to go the Source but because they are in duality and in the corrupt environment, the person born in Spiritual family DOES have some advantage over the other. Moreover, there are many many other complex patterns that would come into play e.g if the person born in criminal family is inclined towards Spiritualism etc and is attracted to some good person leading him/her to higher spiritual state etc etc.

It (Mind/Time) along with Maya is extremely complex system designed to keep the Souls in regions lower than the 3rd eye. Compare it with the movie "The Matrix 1999". Gender being the part of this system (duality) is bound to have some advantages and disadvantages, so does every man born in different environment. "The Laws of Manu" along with Vedas are part of this complex system; reading them would tell us the working (karma/gender etc.) using which one can go to many heavens but NOT beyond the Mind. Using this system one can understand the working of this universe and can manipulate the things in order to secure the place in some heaven (e.g being a Pativarta - i.e treating your husband as God; charity to poor etc. etc.) but keep in mind that these things might bring a good karma but NOT help you go beyong the entity (Mind) who designed this whole system. So, if your intention is to reside in 2nd point of view but keep on debating about the equality, then keep in mind that you're going even deeper into mind. Mind is at play. But if your intention is to go to Source, then as per Guru Nanak Dev Ji: "Man Jeetai Jagjeet". It is foolish to debate on something (be it gender, food etc.) which IS different but the difference is NOT binding you to go to the Source.

REMEMBER that we're here to make sure that we break this karma bond and go beyond the Mind; to the Source. This is the central theme of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where no matter what's your karma/caste/gender/criminal-vs-priest. ANyone can go beyond.

At last, it does NOT mean that one should not take are about the good deeds vs bad deeds because after all we ARE residing in this complex system of Time and Maya; and by using this system (Mind) wisely, one can go beyond. We don't have to fight with the system, just use it to go beyond. Don't indulge in good vs bad; man vs women. Just understand the system (Mind/Time and Maya/Matrix) and remember the Source (from which even the Mind/Time and Maya is created.)

Satkirin_Kaur,
You seem to be considering yourself seeing beyond the physical traits but you end up going deeper into physical aspect. Understand the play, the more you try to go beyond, the more you go deeper into the same which you fight against. It is bound to happen if we don't understand the things properly. So, you end up being on the other side of the argument and NOT going beyond it.

There is a triangle: Neutral (at top) from which comes the duality (Positive and Negative).

First of all, if you've choosen Sikhism just because of the equality concept then from my point of view, its really sad. You can follow any kind of equality by being an atheist; what's the harm in being an atheist? So, again, think about YOUR choice if you're attracted to Sikhism just because of some equality OR because of the Truth?

One should follow any religion (Sikhism being one of them) IFF he/she is looking for some disciple which would eventually lead one to God via some technique.

Now the question of gender equality: There are 2 different points of view. Read this carefully without any prejudice.
1. First point of view is from the Creator's view; i.e in order to reach the Source, gender/caste/creed/karma/good-vs-bad/any-other-duality does NOT matter. It is because all is Him and everyone has equal rights. This is what is taught in real Spiritual schools or in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Second point of view is from the Mind/Time/Kal's view; i.e the entity who is responsible for the working of this universe. He has created a set of rules: karma/duality in every aspect of life. From this point of view, it does matter if a person is born in a criminal enviornment vs the person born in Spiritual family. Now, as per the FIRST point of view, both persons does have equal rights to go the Source but because they are in duality and in the corrupt environment, the person born in Spiritual family DOES have some advantage over the other. Moreover, there are many many other complex patterns that would come into play e.g if the person born in criminal family is inclined towards Spiritualism etc and is attracted to some good person leading him/her to higher spiritual state etc etc.

It (Mind/Time) along with Maya is extremely complex system designed to keep the Souls in regions lower than the 3rd eye. Compare it with the movie "The Matrix 1999". Gender being the part of this system (duality) is bound to have some advantages and disadvantages, so does every man born in different environment. "The Laws of Manu" along with Vedas are part of this complex system; reading them would tell us the working (karma/gender etc.) using which one can go to many heavens but NOT beyond the Mind. Using this system one can understand the working of this universe and can manipulate the things in order to secure the place in some heaven (e.g being a Pativarta - i.e treating your husband as God; charity to poor etc. etc.) but keep in mind that these things might bring a good karma but NOT help you go beyong the entity (Mind) who designed this whole system. So, if your intention is to reside in 2nd point of view but keep on debating about the equality, then keep in mind that you're going even deeper into mind. Mind is at play. But if your intention is to go to Source, then as per Guru Nanak Dev Ji: "Man Jeetai Jagjeet". It is foolish to debate on something (be it gender, food etc.) which IS different but the difference is NOT binding you to go to the Source.

REMEMBER that we're here to make sure that we break this karma bond and go beyond the Mind; to the Source. This is the central theme of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where no matter what's your karma/caste/gender/criminal-vs-priest. ANyone can go beyond.

At last, it does NOT mean that one should not take are about the good deeds vs bad deeds because after all we ARE residing in this complex system of Time and Maya; and by using this system (Mind) wisely, one can go beyond. We don't have to fight with the system, just use it to go beyond. Don't indulge in good vs bad; man vs women. Just understand the system (Mind/Time and Maya/Matrix) and remember the Source (from which even the Mind/Time and Maya is created.)

Here is the digital copy of Handwritten Diary of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib (written in Punjabi and Shahmukhi). THANKS VERY MUCH Matheen for lending your copy to me.

It is scanned from the photocopy of original diary. I've uploaded this file at the following links. I don't know how could I attach a file in Sikhawareness, kindly save this file somewhere on sikhawareness so that everyone could have access to it.
Diary_Original.pdf
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/597068/Spiritual-----Sant-Baba-Isher-Singh-Ji-----Diary-Original-pdf.html

I tried to write some practical things which might help my children in this world. So, I thought, may be someone might want the same. Here is the link to download the file. The file is of 7 pages; each page has an image and self-explanatory; and the topics included are: Setup of this universe; Problems, Solutions, Happiness, Dos, Don'ts etc.


Kids_Education.pdf

I tried to write some practical things which might help my children in this world. So, I thought, may be someone might want the same. Here is the link to download the file. The file is of 7 pages; each page has an image and self-explanatory; and the topics included are: Setup of this universe; Problems, Solutions, Happiness, Dos, Don'ts etc.


Kids_Education.pdf

I tried to write some practical things which might help my children in this world. So, I thought, may be someone might want the same. Here is the link to download the file. The file is of 7 pages; each page has an image and self-explanatory; and the topics included are: Setup of this universe; Problems, Solutions, Happiness, Dos, Don'ts etc.


Kids_Education.pdf

Truthseeker546, first and foremost, if you're really looking for answers then I'm sorry that you came to wrong location.

e.g

A old lady was looking on the road. A passerby thought to help this women, so he offered his help to the women. Both started to search for the "key" that the women has lost. Eventually, one wise man came and asked what's the problem. To which the women replied that she has lost her key inside the room which is dark. So, she came outside in the light to search for it. Wise man replied that if the key was lost inside, then go inside and turn on the light to search within the room.

e.g

Once a bird picked queen's very expensive necklace and flew away and obviously queen became sad. King ordered his servants to follow the bird and bring back the necklace but servants could not found the necklace. King made an announcement that whosoever will find the queen's necklace will be rewarded. After few days, a person reported that queen's necklace was seen in a pond. King immediately left for that pond along with his servants. When the king and his servants reached pond, they could clearly see the necklace at the bottom of the pond because the water in pond was clear and calm. King ordered his servants to dive into pond and bring back the necklace; the servants followed the order and searched for necklace in the pond but could not find it, king also joined them. The water in the pond gets muddy and ripples were created because of the king and its servants activity in the pond. After searching in vain, they came out of pond and tried to see the necklace but as water was full of mud and ripples they can no longer see the necklace in the pond. They waited for some time to get the mud settle at the bottom and water be clear of ripples. Once water is calm and clear again, they can again see the necklace at the bottom. They again dived into water to get the necklace but could not find one. They repeated the above procedure for a full day. Finally, a wise man was passing by and he asked why King and his servants are spoiling their clothes in pond. He was told the whole story. The wise man asks them to show him the necklace in pond to which he was shown the necklace in the pond. The wise man after seeing the necklace in pond immidiately responded that King and his servants are looking at the image of necklace and the real necklace is hanging at the tree at the banks of that pond. Same way, we are looking for God and searching for happiness in the external world (which is the image/creation of God) and eventually getting pains, but the real place of God's abode is within everyone and outside.

Bottom line is if you're really after the answers, then please search within and you'll find out the truth.

Now, as far the questions are concerned, let's start the argument. Here are MY (egotistical I) Right answers;


CENTER path leads to Source/Truthful home.
RIGHT side leads to Higher planes but ends in blind-ally.
LEFT side leads to many Powers (Ridhi-Sidhis).

SOURCE
-- ------------------| |---------------------------
--------------------| |---------------------------
--------------------| |---------------------------
MANY OTHER SPIRITUAL PLANES
--------------------| |---------------------------
SPIRITUAL PLANES (i.e Trikuti: the planes from which one does not need to incarnate into physical body.)
--------------------| |---------------------------
CAUSAL
--------------------| |---------------------------
ASTRAL
--------------------| |---------------------------
PHYSICAL
--------------------| |---------------------------


First of all, reincarnation is NOT a system of purification of the Soul. But at the same time if one's Soul is under the guidance of enlightened being (or say in the middle pipe as shown in the figure), then the next reincarnations in the form of human could be utilized as a system of purification.
Only if Soul is in middle pipe, then the reincarnation in human form is a chance to purify the Soul. But otherwise if the Soul is not in the middle pipe, the reincarnation is only the result of his/her deeds/desires. But also remember that anyone can be part of that middle pipe while in the human incarnation as only Humans can consciously progress.
So, it means that reincarnation was NEVER meant for purification, it was purely a devised system to keep running this whole universe (cycle after cycle) but at the same time there exists a chance in human incarnation to become part of middle pipe. In other words, Human Birth is a golden chance to cut short this reincarnation of 84 million species.
Now, the question is if one could remember the past lives living in poor conditions (physical/mental/emotional) as human beings or as animals; then the person can do something to progress on the path of spirituality. But the problem is that nobody remembers the past lives. It is because of the 3 boons given to Time entity. Time (or say the entity responsible for Time/Creation) has requested the following 3 boons from the Source/God:
1. Nobody will know of his or her past life.
2. Nobody should know about his or her exact time and date of death.
3. The Masters/Enlightened beings/Saints/Gurus should NOT grant Holy Initiation to the humans by showing miracles but simply hold Satsangs and if the dear ones come up of themselves and seek initiation, only then should they be initiated. This is how one becomes part of middle pipe.

Yes, all the natural objects including rocks does have souls. That being said, animals or rocks canNOT consciously make decisions to move up to higher forms. They cannot do anything good to move up the higher forms (unless some Saint/Guru interfere in the cycle e.g a ant killed by the step of Saint) . They are just experiencing what they desired or as per their own deeds/thoughts. There is a cycle of 84 million in which souls can attain some physical form but only the Human form does have the capability to CHOOSE CONSCIOUSLY as per his good/bad deeds.
So, in general, animals and/inanimate objects cannot move consciously to higher forms. Everything is their life is pre-determined and their cycle of 84 million is also pre-determined. So, yes after completing their 84 million -1 births, they do get human form (a chance) but that is by the process and NOT by their choice.

This all was decided by the Time entity who is responsible for the whole universe. This was decided by him and nobody has an idea what was the criteria. But one thing is for sure that either Desire OR Karma are the ONLY things which could lead the soul from higher forms to lower forms during the creation. Those who desire to experience the lower forms were given that form and the ones who doesn't desire, they were attached a first bad karma/thought of the Time entity to pull them into lower forms. OR may be souls want a chance (human form) in order to lead to God/Source. After all Time is the Mind factor (who creates its own destiny).

This is half truth. The human race's life is decreasing day by day. It used to be many thousand years old. In the past, governance was the perfect. But yes, population is increasing. Why? It's better to ask the Creator. Here is just a guess. I don't think any person can have a clue on that (unless that person happens to be a Saint). Here are couple of things to understand.
First of all, the entity responsible for everything is normally called Time has 2 major powers: Time and Space. He is able to use time delays for enlarging the space, and in fact he does so. This is also the reason why scientists detect that the universe is enlarging.
First of all, the Time entity had also taken promise from the Source's good power (to pull the soul back from lower planes) would not interfere extensively in Time's universe for the first 3 yugs (Satyug, Trethayug, Duvaparyug). Now, we're in Kalyug (Iron age) where many good Souls (coming directly from Source) are coming with greater power and disclosing the greater secrets to reach the Source e.g Bhagti/Meditation path. So, may be more Souls from higher planes are taking birth in order to go more further.
Or may be the Time entity is also increasing its forces in the shape of humans to counteract the good powers and spread misinformation. or something like that.
Again, if you want real answers, then search from within (where the Source is and which is beyond the Mind/Intellect).

It's not about Sikhism. It's evolution in Spiritual. You/Soul progress to higher and higher forms until it reached the Source.

No, nobody reach to higher forms via any religion including Sikhism. All the religions are meant to educate us about the middle pipe. Religion in itself is nothing. When any religion started, it was supposed to teach the real path. But with time, the real teaching of any religion are corrupted with dogmas. So, after a while The Source sends His Masters to re-educate people and people ended up capturing the teachings in a box but the Masters/Saints never wanted to define boundaries around the teachings. Even people today have already trapped the teachings of Sikh Gurus in a box and has produced dogmas. I'm sure that after many thousand years, Sikhs would forget the real teachings and twist the teachings and thus another Saint/Master will come to re-teach us.