Arsh1469

Guru Gobind Singh Ji says to wash hands after doing number 1 or 2. Most goray don't even wash their hands! That's disgusting!

Yes he should avoid seva until his finger heals. Imagine if the band aid came off and and he was doing langar seva. That would be no hygienic.
It's not brahmnisim(I think you do not understand this word cause your throwing it aroun all over the place) its a matter of being clean. If I went to the washroom and did number 2 can I go and do seva or hukamnama? No because I would not be clean. Same thing with the period for women.

penji would you let someone who has his or her clothes covered in shit to enter gurudwara?
its all in your head, as i said you are not accepting , everything

have you listened to whole katha of guru granth sahib ji? i prefer you to learn our language and listen to it
many questions arrise from literal translations and western people dont get deeper meaning to it .

its not only limited to women , it applys to men as well




its a version or taking about food , its not about how you enter gurudwara
does it mean that you are allowed to touch gurbani with saliva covered hands? are you kidding me?

heres your lovely sgpc penji

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/7261-wish-of-mardanas-descendent-may-not-be-fulfilled/

What crap are your spewing??? Here is an article that refutes your crap.

Takht chief frowns on sewa by women
Varinder Walia
Tribune News Service

Amritsar, October 11
The demand to allow baptised Sikh women to perform kirtan and seva inside the sanctum sanctorum of the Golden Temple raised a controversy again at a seminar organised by the Global United Sikh Women Organisation here today.

When Dr Mohinder Kaur Gill, a Sikh scholar, wanted the inclusion of baptised women among Panj Piyare ( Five Beloved Ones), Jathedar, Akal Takht, Giani Gurbachan Singh chided her for raising such sensitive issues publicly. He, however, said such matters should have been taken up by the sub-committee of SGPC representatives, Akal Takht, Sikh intellectuals and baptised women.

Rajinder Singh Mehta, member, executive committee, SGPC, at the function said women could not be allowed to participate in Panj Piyare or perform kirtan/seva due to a variety of reasons. He said the Almighty had differentiated man from woman at the time of birth, hence nobody should raise such a demand.

Dr Mohinder Kaur, contradicting her own point, said the SGPC had given certain administrative reasons for disallowing women to clean the sanctum sanctorum or carry Guru Granth Sahib in a palanquin, but there was no valid reason to deny them a chance to perform kirtan.

Bibi Jagir Kaur, after taking over as SGPC chief in 1999, had announced to treat baptised women on a par with men for discharging religious duties in the Golden Temple. Earlier, then acting Jathedar, Akal Takht, Prof Manjit Singh had taken a jatha of baptised women to perform seva in the sanctum sanctorum, along with wife of Harbhajan Singh Yogi. Later, notwithstanding her announcement on February 3, 2003, Bibi Kiranjot Kaur, a former general secretary, SGPC, could not arrange kirtan in the sanctum sanctorum.

Gender discrimination in the Golden Temple was highlighted at the international level on February 15, 2003, when two England-based Sikh women were allegedly assaulted by SGPC sevadars during sukhasan (carrying Guru Granth Sahib in palanquin) in the Golden Temple .

Earlier, at the seminar Dr Upinderjit Kaur, education minister, said to preserve moral and ethical values in society, women should have to do introspection to awaken society ethically, morally and artistically by eradicating social evils.

Women and organisations, including GND University, Punjabi University, SGPC, Kendri Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Chandigarh, and Naad Pargaas Sri Amritsar participated in the seminar. The minister congratulated Dr Jasbir Kaur, president, and said such seminars would help form an ideal society.

What the hell are you talking about??? The DDT have no control over Harmandar sahib so how would they stop bibis from doing kirtan there? It is the Akaal Takhat who is run by the sgpc which you believe wholeheartedly who banned them.

Udasis are Sikhs, says SGPC chief
Varinder Walia
Tribune News Service

Amritsar, December 9
The Dharam Prachar Committee (DPC) of the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC) has declared that Nirmal and Udasi sects were an integral part of Sikhism. The SGPC has decided to challenge the decision of the Supreme Court which pronounced that ‘udasi deras’ were not gurdwaras.

The SGPC chief, Prof Kirpal Singh Badungar who presided over the meeting said he had instructed his staff to get an approved copy of the Supreme Court verdict so that it could be challenged.

In another development the Dharam Prachar Committee has decided that new gurdwaras could be built only with the prior permission of the Jathedar, Akal Takht. This decision has been taken to check the mushrooming of non-historical or unauthorised Sikh shrines. Professor Badungar, however, said no gurdwara on caste basis would be allowed. For this purpose, the SGPC would approach the Jathedar of Akal Takht, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti shortly.

Professor Badungar said the SGPC would advise Mr Joginder Singh Panjrath, an SGPC member facing charges of visiting the dera of Ashutosh, to appear before Akal Takht to prove his innocence. He claimed that Mr Panjrath was innocent and his picture was super-imposed on that of dera of Ashutosh by tricks of photography. He said the SGPC would also advise Mr Panjrath to file case for the manipulation of his photograph.

The SGPC also took serious note of the challan of the vehicles driven by Sikh women/girls not wearing helmets. He said instead of implementing the orders, the state government should have challenged the orders keeping in view the sentiments of the Sikh community. He said the SGPC would contest the orders in a court.

The DPC has also decided to constitute a monitoring cell of Sikh intellectuals to check the distortion in Sikh history if any.

Recently, a couple of years ago, Vedanti made a declaration as Jathedar that Udasis are Sikhs. It was in the tribune. I may have it saved, but I'm sure if you use their search engine.

Daas is not completely sure about the details of the sakhi below, so please don't quote me on it. Gurparsaad, will confirm it in the future.
Sant Baba Bishen Singh jee Murarewale or Sant Baba Sundar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale used to do jaap of "Har Waheguru" as he had a similar thinking as yours. The word "Har" is used the maximum number of times in Sri Aad Gurbani, out of all the names of Sri Akal Purakh. But, when "Anhad Naad" manifested itself to Babajee, he only heard the sound of "Waheguru". There was no "Har".
Our Gurmantar is Waheguru and we should try to focus on it. Having said that, one can do Jaap of other mantars (from Gurbani).
One Jaap to stay away from (especially forJagayasus) is "Sohang". There might be others, which we should avoid.
 
Bhul chuk maaf 

Adi Guray Namah
Yugadi Guray Namah
Satyeguray Namah
Shri Gurdevay Namah

First of all, we (as Sikhs) must respect Vedas. They do have plenty of gyan (knowledge) in them and we can learn a lot from them. 
Some of the major differences between Gurbani and Ved bani are as follows:
Quote (Ragmala jee)
Regarding the Vedas , Baba Ishar Singh Ji said they are not false, they tell about the disease but do not provide the medicine.
The medicine for Ego/ Haumai is only present in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.
Unquote 
Quote (Ragmala jee)
Pandit Narayan Singh ji would listen to katha of both vedas & SGGS.  When listening to katha of vedas, he would sit at the same level as the kathavachak, When listening to Katha of Guru Granth Sahib , he would sit lower. People asked him how come ? This incident was narrated by Baba Ishar Singh Ji in his Bachans. "...they tell about the disease but do not provide the medicine. The medicine for Ego/ Haumai is only present in Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. "
Unquote 
 
Furthermore:
1. Vedas don't talk about Prema Bhagtee (devotion based on love)
ਭਾਉ ਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਚਾਰਿ ਬੇਦਿ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹਿ ਪੇਖੈ।
Bhaau N Brahamai Likhiaa Chaari Bayd Sinmriti Parhhi Paykhai.
भाउ न ब्रहमै लिखिआ चारि बेद सिंम्रिति पड़्हि पेखै ।
Having gone through the Vedas and simritis one finds that Brhama also has nowhere written about the Sentiment of love.
3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੨੫ ਪੰ. ੩ [1]
[1] - http://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/25
 
2. Vedas (most of it) do not talk about the fourth state of mind (Turiya pad), while Gurbani is written from the perspective of Turiya pad.
ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥
The four Vedas speak only of the visible forms.
ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਨੁ ॥
They describe and explain the three states of mind,
ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥
but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1||
 
ਵੇਦੁ ਪੁਕਾਰੈ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਿਧਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
The Vedas proclaim that Maya is of three qualities.
 
Bhul chuk maaf
 
 

It's one thing having respect for his skills but worship is only for Akaal Purkh.

From my experience you have to memorise it systematically. First select a Bani you want to memorise. Then read it every day. Once your speed for reading it becomes fast, then read it 2-3 times a day. That is the method I use. Some people memorise one Pauri per day by repeating it all day long while at home or at work. Alot of people have their own methods to memorise Bani. Experiment and see what method suits you.

Practice. Massive amounts of practice. At one point in my life where I was reciting Japji Sahib ten times daily, I could recite Japji Sahib in about four minutes. Neither tongue nor throat moved. It was pure thought. I was told abhiyaasi Gursikhs could recite Japji Sahib in 2 minutes and I was trying to emulate them. Sadly I could never achieve it. 

IMO, those compositions were not false, but were not part of the original saroop, which was compiled by Sri Satguru jee (Fifth Master).
Sri Pran Sangli is a composition of Sri Satguru jee (First Master). Fifth Master had sent a Sikh to Sangladeep (where this Gurbani was) to bring it back to Punjab. Maharaaj then decided to "Jal Parvah" the Pothi as he had said that my Sikhs don't need it. A Sadhu requested Maharaaj to give him the Pothi and he agreed.
 
Bhul chuk maaf 

Srimaan Baba Bano jee was a famous Sikh of Sri Satguru jee (Fifth Master). He was given the completed saroop of Sri Ad Granth Sahib on his request. He made a copy of the holy saroop. He added some compositions to the copy without the permission of Maharaaj. He added Mira bai jee's (famous saint) shabad, some addition to Ramkali kee vaar, Sri Pran Sangli, etc. That copy of the saroop is known as Bhai Bano de beerh. Beerh means a corpus.
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Darwin's, and the whole ape to man theories make it seem that we are a Coincidental product of evolution. That by chance or some law of outcomes we have ended up to mankind civilisation.
I think that gurbani makes it pretty clear for me that we are a Deliberate (not coincidental) product of God's creation. The human janam, the male/female. the karams, the lekha, etc..are all deliberate products from and for the Mann(mind)
Gurbani says..

ਗਉੜੀ  ਮਹਲਾ  ੧  ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1.
Gauree, First Mehl:
ਜਾਤੋ  ਜਾਇ  ਕਹਾ  ਤੇ  ਆਵੈ  ॥
Jāṯo jā▫e kahā ṯe āvai.
How can we know where we came from?
ਕਹ  ਉਪਜੈ  ਕਹ  ਜਾਇ  ਸਮਾਵੈ  ॥
Kah upjai kah jā▫e samāvai.
Where did we originate, and where will we go and merge?
ਕਿਉ  ਬਾਧਿਓ  ਕਿਉ  ਮੁਕਤੀ  ਪਾਵੈ  ॥
Ki▫o bāḏẖi▫o ki▫o mukṯī pāvai.
How are we bound, and how do we obtain liberation?
ਕਿਉ  ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ  ਸਹਜਿ  ਸਮਾਵੈ  ॥੧॥
Ki▫o abẖināsī sahj samāvai. ||1||
How do we merge with intuitive ease into the Eternal, Imperishable Lord? ||1||
ਨਾਮੁ  ਰਿਦੈ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ  ਮੁਖਿ  ਨਾਮੁ  ॥
Nām riḏai amriṯ mukẖ nām.
With the Naam in the heart and the Ambrosial Naam on our lips,
ਨਰਹਰ  ਨਾਮੁ  ਨਰਹਰ  ਨਿਹਕਾਮੁ  ॥੧॥  ਰਹਾਉ  ॥
Narhar nām narhar nihkām. ||1|| rahā▫o.
through the Name of the Lord, we rise above desire, like the Lord. ||1||Pause||
ਸਹਜੇ  ਆਵੈ  ਸਹਜੇ  ਜਾਇ  ॥
Sėhje āvai sėhje jā▫e.
With intuitive ease we come, and with intuitive ease we depart.
ਮਨ  ਤੇ  ਉਪਜੈ  ਮਨ  ਮਾਹਿ  ਸਮਾਇ  ॥
Man ṯe upjai man māhi samā▫e.
From the mind we originate, and into the mind we are absorbed.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ  ਮੁਕਤੋ  ਬੰਧੁ  ਨ  ਪਾਇ  ॥
Gurmukẖ mukṯo banḏẖ na pā▫e.
As Gurmukh, we are liberated, and are not bound.
ਸਬਦੁ  ਬੀਚਾਰਿ  ਛੁਟੈ  ਹਰਿ  ਨਾਇ  ॥੨॥
Sabaḏ bīcẖār cẖẖutai har nā▫e. ||2||
Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, we are emancipated through the Name of the Lord. ||2||
 
I hope you can see what I'm trying to say here.
Gurbani tells us: this janam is the ONE opportunity to merge directly with Akaal Purakh. Lakh chaurasi life forms have already been experienced by this mann and now we have an opportunity to get naam and break free. This is the janam, where combined with karam and gyan indries, intellect, brain and the huge learning capacity...we have the abilty to truly "Sacrifice" the dressed up mann to Waheguru..  I've come to personally believe that Akaal Purakh created this environment for the Mann that exists with Male and female aspects,.. and this life is not by chance, we have been through lakh chaurasi and we've begged for his darshan. Now, he gives us the chance, but we still blow it!!
 
 
 
 

Thanks for the information.
Any reference in Gurbani to the divine/celestial years?
Thanks
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Is this the verse (from Sri Chandi de Vaar Sahib) which is interpreted to mean that Nihangs were part of Durga jee's forces?
ਪਹਿਲਾ ਦਲਾ ਮਿਲੰਦਿਆਂ ਭੇੜੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਿਹੰਗਾਂ ॥੪੭॥
 
Bhul chuk maaf

The word Nihang also means a warrior. So, the above statement could imply "Warriors of Satjug".
 
Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru Ji
Baba Bhagwan Singh Ji narrates the early life of Baba Isher Singh Ji and tells the immense Gurbani, Pathh and Naam Simran use to do.  
 

I'm not sure I would eat while doing Nitnem, but I would definitely Naam Jaap or recite Gurbani in mind while eating, which is slightly different. 

yes it is Bhai Nand Lal's rehitnama. but the oldest surviving rehat is Aad Guru Darbar.

this is a continuation from a previous discussion (this board or another i cant remember) where people were stressing that bhai chaupa singh was anti women.

heres a post from the ever informative balpreet singh from tapoban.org:

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama is interesting on different levels. Chaupa Singh was a Chhiber Brahmin and sometimes he seems to let a bit of a Brahmin bias enter into his work. At other times he is completely egalitarian and condemns caste in all forms. "Naa daekhai Khatree, naa daekhai Shood ki Vaish hai. Sikh Guru kaa daekhai, jaat barn naa daekhai" meaning "One should not look at whether someone is Khatri or Shudra or Vaish. One should look whether someone is a Sikh, one should not look at caste or clan." (77) All my references on this rehitnama come from the Padam book.

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama also contains a number of internal contradictions which indicate that it has been tampered with. One very clear case is the situaton of "saluting the sun". "Guru kaa Sikh praatay outh kay sooraj noo(n) namastay aakh kay, Sikhaa(n) noo Vahiguru Jee kee Fateh bulai" (91) meaning, when a Sikh rises in the morning, he should say "namastay" to the Sun and then Fateh to the Singhs. That's problematic on a number of fronts, seeing as how Sikhs don't revere the sun and the sun hasn't risen when a Sikh gets up (last part of night ie. amrit vela). But the rehitnama later contradicts itself: "Jo sooraj dayvtay noo namaskaar karay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105), meaning, "One who salutes/does namaskaar to the sun is a Tankhaiyaa".

And so I come to the issue of women in the Chaupa Singh rehitnama. This again is a very confused issue. I havn't seen the manuscript you quote which says not to give Paahul to women, but the common Chaupa Singh rehitnama says the following: "Jo Sikh, SikhNee noo(n) khanday dee paahul naa dayvay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105) meaning, "that Sikh who does not give khanday kee paahul to a female-Sikh, is a Tankhaiyaa".

Even in regards to reading Sree Guru Granth Sahib, your references are correct, but the same rehitnama then goes on to say, "Guru kee SikhNee Granth Sahib pothee paRn sikhay..." (107) meaning a female-Sikh should learn how to read Sree Guru Granth Sahib.

Overall, we can learn interesting things from rehitnamas, but we can't consider them to be the authority on rehit. Rehit has been passed down amongst Gursikhs and it's hard to find but it still exists. Only that rehit is authentic which can pass the test of GurbaaNee.

so, conclusion.............i dont think someone would so blatantly contradict themseves.....do u think that rehats have been changed over time? i heard the original bhai chaupa singh rehatnamas remain? etc

First of all Dass would like to welcome you onto this great website. You are very similar to me as when dass started to do learn gurbani nitnem banis I always used english roman script then use a audio tracks to learn all of the sounds. Which is quite similar to how you described reading the bani in Hindi. There are a few really good apps which offer both punjabi and hindi versions of the banis. 
 
You are on the right track and may Guru Sahib Ji do kirpa on you