Arsh1469

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Sant Kartaar Singh jee Bhindrawale took Principal Jodh Singh jee (who did not believe in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee) along with an Ink expert to show him the Kartarpur wala saroop (which was written by Bhai Saab Bhai Gurdas jee Maharaaj). The Ink expert proved that the ang which has Sri Raagmala Sahib is the same as the previous angs of the saroop, same writer has written Sri Raagmala Sahib jee as the one who has written the previous Gurbani and the same ink has been used to write Sri Raagmala Sahib jee as used for other Gurbani. Principal Jodh Singh jee announced after this incident that he believes in Sri Raagmala Sahib jee.
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[1] - http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16637-how-do-we-define-brahamgyani/?page=4#comment-147411
Bhul chuk maaf

And you think that writing cannot be manipulated? Did you know that in Sri gur partap Suraj Granth there is no mention of giving Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji getting the gur gaddi. Go ahead and try to find it but you won't. There is a Sri gur partap Suraj Granth in I think it's Nepal or someplace like that sant hari Singh randhawa vale knows where. In that Granth there is writings about giving gaadi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Sri gur partaap Suraj Granth also didn't write about giving Amrit to bibi's so do you believe that as well?
Did you know that kavi Ji had 4 writers helping him with Sri gur partap Suraj Granth. They were supplied by the raja of I think was it nabha or patiala and those writers were corrupted by the British. In Sri gur partap Suraj Granth there are writings that write guru Ji had earings and did opium etc. These type of things were written by the 4 writers who were helping kavi Ji. So was the Raag Mala thing. I have gotten this info from true mahapurkhs who I met who have seen visions. 
Another thing that proves that kavi Ji does believe in Raag Mala. Kavi Ji was a student of head granthi of harimander sahib and jathedar of Damdami Taksal Gyani Sant Singh Ji. Now you tell me would gyani sant Singh teach kavi Ji Raag Mala is not gurbani and then teach his successor that it is gurbani? 
Regarding bhai randhir Singh I respect him cause in taksali books and I think it was in sant gyani kartar Singh Ji bhindranvale's book that said bhai sahib later on did start believing in Raag Mala like how bhai vir Singh later on started believing in Raag Mala. I know no akj will believe me but I trust the taksal and Sants who did write it.
I bet you won't believe anything I write here I'm just writing what I have learnt, read, and heard in my life.
 
 

going back to the original post regarding this i dont think i can trust the majority of the stuff on sarbloh.info regarding taksal.

In the site it critisices the lineage from Baba Deeep Singh Ji and says that this isnt the lineage that Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji accepted.

All niddar had to do was listen to their katha which is on www.kathaa.com as 9 minutes into the second mp3 they state their is two lineages one from Bhai Mani Singh which at the time Sant Kirpal Singh Ji was heading and know headed by Sant Makhan Singh Ji also know as Sat Gali Walae Jatha.

Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji state that they head the taksal started by Baba Deep Singh Ji. If that isn't enough truth that they accepted it and it wasn't just made up by Sant Kartar Singh Ji to gain popularity then i don't know how brain washed and messed they are!

yeh thats right...... how about so that the information presented is correct.... how about the information is not bias....

Getting back to the point,

Vijaydeepji,

You are incorrect about Nirmalay not being Punjab from the beginning. Those early Nirmalay resided in what was then Punjab from the time of Guru Gobind Singh ji. If I remember correctly Baba Punjab Singh was sent to Khadur Sahib at this time. Likewise, the parampra held by the Nirmalay of Baba Sundar Singh Bhindranwale certainly has common individuals with many Nirmala upsamprdas, and hence as such considering that Pandit Tara Singh Narotam features in this parampra, who was a Sri Mahant of Panchayti Akhara, does link to those who reside at kumbh mela sites (all the panchayti akharas). I'd be interested to hear what someone like Baba Jagjit Singh Herkhowal thinks of this issue.

Vijaydeep singh,

i don't know about damdami but rara sahib is nirmala sampardha(lineage) coming from bhai dya singh ji time.

check this out : http://www.rarasahib.com/images/sg.gif

Nirmalaie sampardha was intially started by 5 singhs who went to kansi but when they came back they trained bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji..from that point- two sampardha with 24 upsampardha's were started by Bhai Dya Singh Ji and Bhai Dharam Singh Ji.

oh really , i thought taksal adapted white -wearing from sant baba sunder singh ji bhindranvaley time's not just recently...and they were vegetarians from nirmaley influence not hindu influence.

Author failed to mention it was nirmaley in help of singh sabha movement who implemented anand karaj ceremony.

Also, yes there has been few hindu influence in our sampardha's but to call vegeterainism an hindu influence is completely absurd...nirmaley has been always vegeterians since they were created 1. Bhai Dya Singh Ji Sampardha 2. Bhai Dharam Singh Sampardha... it's only few cases according to circumstances like baba sahib singh bedi who was a nirmala and a soldier that he hunted..again but we can't follow his foot steps... because for a bhramgyani at that stage... there is no paap or paun (sin or good deed) and we are not his stage...you will see sants in nirmala mandali may have hunted or eaten meat only in certain circumstances but their shish were never given an non veggie diet.

I tried to post this on the original Dam Dami Taksal thread but it was closed due to the topic getting way off the subject.

The issue i raise is that many people have stated that Taksal did not exist prior to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji or Sant Kartar SIngh Ji. Also that the Giani Samparda has never been around before Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji

I got hold of The Kabit Savaiyai Steek by Giani Bishan SIngh ji from 1911. In this he mentions the sources he has used to complete his Dasam and Sri Guru Granth Shaib steeks in the years 1900 - 1905. Two of the sources used are from the late 19th century which ar steeks on the Sri GUru Granth Shaib Ji and Dasam Granth.

Guru Granth Sahib Steek by Giani Bhagwan SIngh Ji Sampardai Taksal.
Dasam Granth by Giani Bakhshish Singh Ji Sampardai Taksal

Again thos poses the question. If the sampardai taksal was only 'made up' in the early 20th century then how come we can find people stated they belong to the Giani Sampardai Damdami Taksal in the 19th century?

Us in canada do not want him. He only came to one gurdwara here in toronto but he will not be allowed back. So he is done in 🇨🇦 

That's only reason I beleive.

Please confirm with Sikhsangat admins before posting threads about them.

This topic is locked to avoid un-wanted bickering and slandering.

Perhaps the Admins on SikhSangat are just trying to avoid a discussion which will lead no where and will only end up creating hatred and anger. Its been discussed many times, the same points will be brought up again and again.

Perhaps you should post in their Feedback forum and ask to explain their decisions.

Vah! Vah! I didn't realise Giani ji had stoppped recordings of their katha. This is the nirmata of Giani Mohan Singh ji. They truly want to remain as gupt (hidden) as possible. I have read they also have a sign outside their room which advises sangat against seeking darshan of themselves but instead have darshan of sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. The only downside to remaining so gupt is that many Gursikhs today have never heard of Giani Mohan Singh ji. I only wished that Giani ji had written some books so that future generations could learn from them. However, at least we have the katha to listen to.

So are these recent recordings you have been made secretly? What year were they recorded? I look forward to hearing the recent recordings you have.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

yes guru gobind singh ji created the sarbloh granth in the form of dusht daman in satyug and was buried by him. It was then rediscovered again in kalyug.

you see nihangs are called "Ladla Khalsa" by guru ji... but however its sad today how they ignored.. its entirely because its been geeting screwed over time to time by british then rss aand unfortunately sikhs within our panth... really hope nihangs flourish like flowers and spread their shastar vidiya around someday......

Also since nihangs been broken into fragments by british and our people thats why you see bunch of fragments not accepting hindu roots but being more freindly with hindu tradition so they take part in it...

However just because nihangs do accept hindu traditions that doesnt mean nihangs accept rss propaganda too...they are good blokes with skills.. but if hindu extermist try to screw the panth then they will raise the swords.. thats what they are given the swords.. thats they praise mirri-pirri sword...sword of khalsa... lots of nihangs got shaheed in 84.. that just describes it.. they certainly not there to divide the panth but it seems like it because mainstream sikhs are makin fun of em... ie. jhatka, bhang.. thats all their tradition...when someone talks about nihangs.. first mainstream sikhs has to say.. oh those crack-heads... gimme a break... its sad to see whats happening in the panth these days... :cry:

I say: Stop being so narrow-minded.

Guru Nanak Patshah says in Bani:
ਗਣਤ ਗਣੀਐ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜੀਐ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਿ ਪਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਥੀਐ
Astrological calculations about one's future create suspense or sorrow in one's heart;
But by seeking the Guru's refuge, one always remains in peace and comfort.

Yes it's a science, but do you understand how gurmat comes into this ?

Seriously veer? Why the hell do you need an astrologer for? That shit ain't in sikhi. 

I'm sort of confused about your underastanding of who the 10th Guru was/is. On one hand you consider him to be a scholer, linguist, educated, poet (- as do we all) and then you deny any writings attributed to the guru? What type of writer is he who cannot produce a piece of literature.
Just because you do not agree with the contents does not mean that the writer has not produced it.

I do not agree with with men going to witches in the forest to seek raaj-gaadhi. Does that mean that I deny
that Shakespeare wrote Macbeth?
I say open up your mind: history/the world does not revolve around your limited human logic.

Fateh, Out!

ਸਚੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ -ang 562

ਸੁਣਿ ਸਜਣ ਜੀ ਮੈਡੜੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ||
ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ - ang 576


Everything can be obtained from my Guru, why look elsewhere? Is having faith in Gurbani = Brahmanism?

That would mean Guru Hargobind Ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Did pargat of a Devi when they went to war

That is a very good point to note. I personally have no belief that Guru Ji did aradhna of the devi for her to become pargat prior to the birth of the khalsa or yudh. They are full belief in akaal purkh and state 'Tehee Durga Saaj Kai Danta Da Naas Karaiya'!

Why would Guru Ji need to do this when their form was of Akaal purkh what is the need of any being when you are superior int he first place. (Aap narayan Kaladhar Jag Mai Parvariyo)

I think this concept is only accepted by the nihang samparda as everyone i have spoken to from the four other sampardas do not accept this notion as all!

finally got time to read this thread.....guys i think your going off track...
the topic was durga and sarbloh granth and not what is hinduism.....i did some further research on this topic i wish to share this with you.....
1, hindism has sacred scriptires eg, Geeta which were written by devtas not from God, only Gurbani is from God.
2, hinduisms main teachings are caste system, worship of devtas/devis aswell as God, fasts pilgrimages idol worship.
sikhism is completey seperate from hinduism because we have initiation ceremony, reject caste and idol worship and have a living Guru. In Raag Bihagra there is a shabad stating that mahraaj doesn't believe in Hinduism.. when Maharaj appeared from Bheni river after three days Maharaj states 'i am neither hindu nor muslim i follow the path of God'

3, IN HINDUISM DURGA IS A DEVI WHO IS WORSHIPPED AS THE GODDESS OF WAR IN IDOL FORM OR MANTRA MEDITATION.

4, IN MY EXPERIENCE I HAVE FOUND THAT SCHOLARS ARE DIVIDED AS TO WHETHER SAHIB SRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ DID PARGAT OF DURGA HOWEVER MAHARAJ'S BIR RAS
GRANTHS TALK ABOUT WAR AND DEMONS AND THE GODDESS DURGA.

5, NIHANG SINGHS BELIEVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH SARBLOH GRANTH THAT MAHARAJ DID DO PARGAT OF DURGA AND THAT MAHARAJ HAD HELPED HER IN A PREVIOUS TIME FORM, THAT OF SATYUG WHEN MAHARAJ WERE KNOWN AS DUST DAMAN. THERE IS ALSO A SAKHI WHERE NIHANGS BELIEVE THAT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI'S BLESSED WIFE;MATA SAHIB DEVA WAS AN INCARNATION OF DURGA AND HENCE SHE IS THE MOTHER OF THE KHALSA NIHANG SINGH PANTH.

6, IN SIKHISM DURGA REPRESENTS SHAKTI FROM WHICH EVERYTHING EXCEPT GOD WAS CREATED, THIS INCLUDES FIVE ELEMENTS NATURE AND MAYA ETC ETC. GOD IS KNOWN AS SHIV. (NOT SHIVA A DRUGGEE WHO LIVES WITH PARBATI AND GANESH IN THE MOUNTAINS SOMEWHERE)
SHIV AND SHAKTI HAS BEEN MENTIONED MANY TIMES IN GURBANI EG, RAMKALI ANAND SAHIB, SIDH GOST ASWELL AS DASAM GRANTH AND SARBLOH GRANTH. IN ASA KI VAR
GURU NANAK DEVJI STATES - DOE KUDRAT SAAJ KE KAR ASAN DITO CHAO....FROM ONE I CREATED TWO AND WITHIN THIS TWO I WATCH THE WORLD.

5,THE SHAKTA SHAKTI PRINCIPAL HAS TO BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND WHO OR WHAT DURGA IS, DURGA THE EIGHT ARMED LADY REPRESENTS THE PHYSICAL 'HUMAN'
FORM OF THIS SHAKTI WHICH IS CREATED BY GOD.

6, FINALLY THERE IS A DEBATE AS TO WHO WERE THE DEVTAS KRISHNA, RAM CHANDER,
BAVAN AVTAR ETC....I'M NOT TO SURE AT THIS MOMENT BECAUSE I BELIEVE THEY WERE THE VERY FORM OF GURU NANAK DEV JI IN PREVIOUS AGES
GURBANI STATES ANG 1390

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
सतजुगि तै माणिओ छलिओ बलि बावन भाइओ ॥

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
त्रेतै तै माणिओ रामु रघुवंसु कहाइओ ॥

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
दुआपुरि क्रिसन मुरारि कंसु किरतारथु कीओ ॥

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
उग्रसैण कउ राजु अभै भगतह जन दीओ ॥

You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
कलिजुगि प्रमाणु नानक गुरु अंगदु अमरु कहाइओ ॥

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥
स्री गुरू राजु अबिचलु अटलु आदि पुरखि फुरमाइओ ॥७॥

The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

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*cough* anti-DG chela *cough*

Obvioulsy not a fan of Guru Gobind Singhs bani then....

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