Lucky

well... my question really is... ''If you were out with your wife and waiting outside as your wife has just gone into a public washroom.....then a few seconds later your saw this bearded harnaam kaur enter .. and not knowing if she is a woman or not.....I'm sure you would be concerned!
I've got nothing to say on this attention seeker of a person who is clearly using sikhi as a secondary basis for excuses and acceptance.........I believe she became Sikh after she had spent years of using hair removal products...She chose to become a Sikh and parade herself.. giving the impression she is abiding by Sikh rehat...... Then, I'm sure, she has broken her amrit and gone and done tattoos and shit.....so lets not give her anymore attention.
 

lets not be getting the kachey into twists... We have to remember that the jap and gurmantar/mantar is just a technique to help get the "one-pointed awareness''
ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥
Ik cẖiṯ ik man ḏẖi▫ā▫e su▫āmī lā▫e parīṯ pi▫āro.
With my consciousness centered, and my mind one-pointed, I meditate on my Lord and Master, with love and affection
All about Ik chi-Ik mann
The one-pointed mind is the goal for any method that we use because this is what can take you to the states of sunn Samadhi.
The mind reaches samadhi when it attains a stage of one-pointed concentration, or absorption. Since mind and body are of one unity, if the mind reaches samadhi, the body will also attain sunn samadhi,.
With using gurmantar, moolmantar, or any other mantar like har har, ram......the mind should be internally listening to the mantra without adding any extra commentary to the sounds; the only sound experienced within jap,should be the sound of the mantar itself rather than any internal talking. There should be no second dialogue, and we should not impose any internal thought words of comprehension. In fact, ..in any jap, there should not be any internal dialogue--the mental realm within should remain quiet.
One-pointed concentration is what helps you get from the stage of just listening into the emptiness and bliss of the void.--->that's the only way the duar/door to Waheguru's sacha mahal will open.
Gurbani tells us about sowing the seeds and cultivating...and this is very important, because I think even his grace will only follow when one starts to cultivate.
 
Therefore, it doesn't matter what method of cultivation you use or what mantra, or if you use rosary, ring bells, play music, sing praises.......it's all about getting to that one-pointedness-->empty void->Samadhi.
However, Gurmat tells us to not get wound up in the cultivation techniques of whether to use rosary, to count your chants, mantars....but to focus on 'dhyiana' aspects of yoga schools,,, which is why it overlaps with bhakti yoga using mantar and breathing pranayama together.
Gurbani also tells us that our commodity is the Swaas....So it is the breath and one-pointed mind together that earns the wealth of naam.......With this in mind, I personally find it easier to merge breathing with gurmantar easier. But you can also do it with mool mantar providing you keep a joint pace with breath and mind jap.... speed up breathing->speed up moolmantar jap...OR slow down breath-->slow down moolmantar...........The idea is to keep the same number of breaths with cycles of moolmantar.
ps..I just tried moolmantar jap this morning and it went quite well once I had set my own breaths/mantar cycle rate! ;)
 
 
 
 
 
 

Ibrute ji, .....There should be no strain !
The Idea is to have your "attention' at that point in the beginning and not to be trying to hard to physically focusing there.
From my experience only.....I would suggest that you imagine a screen in front of you when your eyes are closed. Then you can even put your finger at the point to start with, which is just slightly above the middle point of eyebrows or where women usually have their bindi.
Then, imaging you are standing at that point and step back very slowly and comfortably as if going inwards and behind your eyes,(At this point your eye muscles may move slightly and that is ok )..........Then, just put your attention right where that finger spot is and you shouldn't really feel any eye muscle motion.
You will find that the eyes will actually become 'completely still" very near there and bingo!!.......that's exactly where you want them.
The ''stillness' and focus is the key that will lead to progress and it should all be in a relaxed and effortless mode.
...Give this a try and see how you get on in the meantime..... But if you are still having difficulty trying to put your attention in one particular area whilst maintaining some stillness,.. then I can give you a few more further tips to get some practice.
 
 
 
 

Have you done it by breathing through mouth?
This helps because if prana is way too unbalanced, ...then through the mouth can help offset this.
It has been suggested that you initially start in this manner and then move into the comfortable and steady technique that you find suitable.
 
 

Have you done it by breathing through mouth?
This helps because if prana is way too unbalanced, ...then through the mouth can help offset this.
It has been suggested that you initially start in this manner and then move into the comfortable and steady technique that you find suitable.
 
 

What Dally was talking about was changing facts to suit your own historical narrative.

For example, if someone believes that only people who have taken khande di pahul can be a sikh, then they will revise and edit and misrepresent history to show that all sikhs like Bhai Kanhaiya ji, etc took khande di pahul.

And they have done this, and many people including me have believed their shit at some point.

​Das, the word Giras ਗਿਰਾਸ is related to the word Girahi ਗਿਰਾਹੀ
Thus Swas Giras becomes synonymous with the phrase "24/7" or "Atthe Peher". It means to do something all the time, since you are breathing all the time or if you are not breathing you are probably swallowing (since when you swallow you don't breath).

Swas can mean incoming breath but is not necessarily incoming breath. Swas Swas is referring to both incoming and outgoing breath.

Sat, that's a long post. Let me read it tomorrow and see if I can add anything or learn something.

​Those two are not mutually exclusive.
I maybe lost but ​I am not the one misusing tuks from Guru Granth sahib without understanding.
 
1. Any action can have Moh as the fuel. This is on you to figure out which of your actions have Moh and which don't.
2. If you can't keep your Moh out of Ridhiyan Sidhiyan, then you probably can't keep your Moh out of other actions. Thus you need to work on your Moh.
3. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan cannot get rid of your Moh. You need to get rid of your Moh by connecting to God. Ridhiyan Sidhiyan are simply a manifestation of that connection.

ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਸਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan nal man vich naam nahi vasda. This is correct. It works the other way around. Naam man vich vasan nal ridhiyan sidhiyan mil jandiyan han.
ਹਰਿ ਹਾਰੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਿਨੀ ਪਹਿਰਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥
ਤਿਨਾ ਪਿਛੈ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਓਨਾ ਤਿਲੁ ਨ ਤਮਾਇ ॥੪॥
Those who wear the necklace of Hari's name on their throat, meaning those who are connected to Hari, they are absorbed into their Guru's feet.
Ridhiyan Sidhiyan follow such people, who do not desire such things (meaning they only desire Hari).

Yes, just keep going!
The earlier sounds can be both sides, but when the naam sound begins to manifest....they say that it starts on the right.
This is more of a nishani, so that you know you have the correct one to focus on.
But, the earlier sounds before naam shabad can sometimes be on the left or the right.

FIrstly, I understand that a 'brahmacharya' is the ultimate yogi that not only abstains, but actually has no kami thoughts either.
You see, there is a huge difference between just abstaining or actually being brahmacharya.
It's about semen and "ojas"..... and "ojas is the strong subtle energy within us that travels along the spinal fluids... therefore it can go anywhere from the lower mooldhar chakra up to the top crown chakra..However, we have to channel it, to make it rise, because the mind and panjj dhoots will automatically keep it lower down.
The goal is not about abstaining, but the brahmachrya directs all this energy into Spiritual energy instead of sexual.
The whole diversion of sexual energies into spiritual energies is a big deal and it's what the "moolabandha" or root lock in Kabirji's shabad is about. In yoga, this is a major goal but it is very misunderstood in the west, where they tend to mix the tantra,tantric and kamasutra.. into porn fantasires (I'm not going to go into this because these are separate topics themselves)
Going back to the 'ojas"..which is the subtle energy....I would try and imagine it as the energy that gives you that ultimate joy,climax or orgasm (you can imagine how powerful this subtle energy can be).. and note that this experience cannot be physically quantified or measured in any way since it is completely subtle, except for the physical discharge of semen..... Now, let's also accept that there is no greater personal and joyful experience than an orgasm.......But let's also remember that this energy is the 'ojas' that is channeled down to the lower chakras where kundalini is dormant....Therefore, it is energy channeled in the opposite direction from the higher throat, third eye and dasam/crown chakras.....it's antagonistic from spiritual joy of union with God.
The brahmacharya channels this kaam energy towards more perfect and genuine spiritual energy. He enjoys much greater experiences than orgasm with union and marriage to husband lord. The brahmacharya is the greatest 'soul bride' in gurbani.
I mentioned about  a person that simply abstains as being different to brahmacharya......you see a brahmachrya does not have his ojas transforming into semen, therefore he will never be having wet dreams.  However, a person abstaining may end up having plenty of wet dreams if the mind is still having thoughts and sexual urges . ie. when he sees the odd pair of boobs or someone desirable. REMEMBER that ''Thoughts'' can be satogun, rajogun or tamogun because they are still maya.....and these subtle thoughts and urges are enough to promote physiological  production and discharge of semen.
It's very well documented in the west that people who abstain. very often end up having other personality disorders, psychological problems, social and physical difficulties. etc. They can  end up very repressed and sexually frustrated, which in itself is understandable since their abstinence leads renders them unable to fulfill lower sexual desires.... it's like trying to hold this energy within, dampen it, mask it and suppress it.....only  leads to levels of internal frustration... This abstaining does NOT help them physically or spiritually in any way.   When anyone suppresses any sort of energy, then the energy will always find another route to break through.  We mannukhs suffer these same consequences if we try and suppress different emotions, since they only lead to physical ailments and illnesses.
 
Your question of whether any one has experienced the effects of abstaining for their meditation progress or experience ?
Well, that is slightly difficult to answer because it isn't a simple yes or no.....You see, you learn and get to a point where any bhog with your partner becomes a divine experience and then No, It doesn't affect you or dampen you spiritually.....in fact it makes you more spiritually elevated. ....Again,.. very difficult to explain.. but it's like enjoying meditating and simran because you are experiencing the God that is inside your own body and experiencing God inside your partner's body.
However, if your intentions are more kaam, perverse or purely physical,..then you will feel some degree of guilt or anti-climax afterwards along with a spiritual dip.  Most people verify that excessive semen discharge leads to a major decline in amrit rass and also inhibits further nadis from opening up.
The key is in having the initial motivation to channel as much internal energy towards spiritual ascension. Then. kaami thoughts, or intentions occurring in day to day life, will slowly begin to diminish.  Seriously, you don't have to force yourself to look the other  way or try forcing thoughts out of your mind. Neither do you need to suppress them, as that just leads to the common abstinence problem mentioned. I reckon it kind of comes naturally with increased meditation, just as desires for taste of tongue diminish,  the desires for possessions and desires for power...then the carnal desires also follow route and begin to fade away.

Simple answer is not a yes or a no... but the question is who is the ''real pakhandi or faker''?
It's me and you mate...us... the manmukhs..that question the integrity or higher order of some other gursikh.
....
You may say, ''what gives the other gursikh such higher order or status ?"
Well, i would say that if there is some gursikh or bhai sahib amongst us that could teach us a thing or two, and in turn we may learn something from them..... then in turn, they would have such a higher order/status than me & you.
So if I want to be a faker and question the teacher.. then that makes me the real pakhandi.

Besides the guy doing the slating is from the group of missionaries that deny dasam bani, deny naam simran and very openly promote khula maas(from macdonalds) instead of looking at meat issue with regards to nihang/warrior/jhatka tradition.

They have the charms and persuasions of wrongly distorting gurbani for their own personal agendas.... so what deal and how difficult would it be for them to distort the lifestyle, kamayee, gyaan of some gursikh ?

Both Das and Satkirin are correct in what they are saying but there is probably a slight misunderstanding.
If I understood correctly, Das is talking about experiences and how they can affect our thinking and attitudes. To add to this... I should say that a whole lot of experiences for anyone on the spiritual path are there as diversions and can actually lead one AWAY from the Truth instead of towards it..yes, we shouldn't fool ourselves and it is all too easy. ......Noting, that riddi siddis are the most popular and usually first spiritual powers that can arise...and they can very easily lead one away from the divine truth instead of towards it.  Just look at clairvoyants, crystal bowl gypsies, some magicians..etc..
So, I totally comprehend what Das is saying, but also remember that gurmat insists that one should keep entire focus on shabad, no matter what distractions come along the way... These instructions are to prevent our own downfalls.
In sukhmani sahib, it clarifies that the gurmukh that is on the path gets the 'nishaanis' or ''insignias" of riddi sidd/occult powers, but he/she is ONLY to acknowledge them for development on not get fooled or trapped in them..... riddi siddi comes, acknowledge.....move on..sticking to shabad.
 
On the other hand, I wholeheartedly, also comprehend what Satkirin is saying.
I'm sure she is not being fooled or being led into opposite direction of truth......She is emphasizing her own thought process and her certainty that she believes and understands the universal consciousness and not about her experiences of verifying other realms or existence of eternal soul.
As well as her own thought process, I think she has the right ''feeling'' and attitudes that are necessary for gurmat Jeevan jach....., and I think I can understand her frequency........and guys, we have to remember that she is a gori that has come into a completely different culture and faith through completely her own choice and not via yoga or anything. ...Just for this sort of huge transformation, one has to be more than certain that it shall lead them towards the Truth.....Therefore, I very much doubt that she has fallen into spiritual trappings that are in opposite direction to Truth.
I feel she clearly understands that sikhi and doing 'sachey ki sift salah' is the manner to get to that sach (praising the truth to get to the truth)
 
 

​I agree das.. I know that you were warning about getting stuck at 'surface' levels.
Mind can lead us the wrong way but only if we let it run the show.
We have a Soul/atma and Mind.,,,correct ?................I'm understanding that if we let Mind run the show over the soul, then---->>going towards Man-mat, but if we let the atma be the master over the mind instead(which is why simran is about stilling and controlling this charging mind)..--->>towards walking in pure hukam and gur-mat.
 

Both Das and Satkirin are correct in what they are saying but there is probably a slight misunderstanding.
If I understood correctly, Das is talking about experiences and how they can affect our thinking and attitudes. To add to this... I should say that a whole lot of experiences for anyone on the spiritual path are there as diversions and can actually lead one AWAY from the Truth instead of towards it..yes, we shouldn't fool ourselves and it is all too easy. ......Noting, that riddi siddis are the most popular and usually first spiritual powers that can arise...and they can very easily lead one away from the divine truth instead of towards it.  Just look at clairvoyants, crystal bowl gypsies, some magicians..etc..
So, I totally comprehend what Das is saying, but also remember that gurmat insists that one should keep entire focus on shabad, no matter what distractions come along the way... These instructions are to prevent our own downfalls.
In sukhmani sahib, it clarifies that the gurmukh that is on the path gets the 'nishaanis' or ''insignias" of riddi sidd/occult powers, but he/she is ONLY to acknowledge them for development on not get fooled or trapped in them..... riddi siddi comes, acknowledge.....move on..sticking to shabad.
 
On the other hand, I wholeheartedly, also comprehend what Satkirin is saying.
I'm sure she is not being fooled or being led into opposite direction of truth......She is emphasizing her own thought process and her certainty that she believes and understands the universal consciousness and not about her experiences of verifying other realms or existence of eternal soul.
As well as her own thought process, I think she has the right ''feeling'' and attitudes that are necessary for gurmat Jeevan jach....., and I think I can understand her frequency........and guys, we have to remember that she is a gori that has come into a completely different culture and faith through completely her own choice and not via yoga or anything. ...Just for this sort of huge transformation, one has to be more than certain that it shall lead them towards the Truth.....Therefore, I very much doubt that she has fallen into spiritual trappings that are in opposite direction to Truth.
I feel she clearly understands that sikhi and doing 'sachey ki sift salah' is the manner to get to that sach (praising the truth to get to the truth)
 
 

Both Das and Satkirin are correct in what they are saying but there is probably a slight misunderstanding.
If I understood correctly, Das is talking about experiences and how they can affect our thinking and attitudes. To add to this... I should say that a whole lot of experiences for anyone on the spiritual path are there as diversions and can actually lead one AWAY from the Truth instead of towards it..yes, we shouldn't fool ourselves and it is all too easy. ......Noting, that riddi siddis are the most popular and usually first spiritual powers that can arise...and they can very easily lead one away from the divine truth instead of towards it.  Just look at clairvoyants, crystal bowl gypsies, some magicians..etc..
So, I totally comprehend what Das is saying, but also remember that gurmat insists that one should keep entire focus on shabad, no matter what distractions come along the way... These instructions are to prevent our own downfalls.
In sukhmani sahib, it clarifies that the gurmukh that is on the path gets the 'nishaanis' or ''insignias" of riddi sidd/occult powers, but he/she is ONLY to acknowledge them for development on not get fooled or trapped in them..... riddi siddi comes, acknowledge.....move on..sticking to shabad.
 
On the other hand, I wholeheartedly, also comprehend what Satkirin is saying.
I'm sure she is not being fooled or being led into opposite direction of truth......She is emphasizing her own thought process and her certainty that she believes and understands the universal consciousness and not about her experiences of verifying other realms or existence of eternal soul.
As well as her own thought process, I think she has the right ''feeling'' and attitudes that are necessary for gurmat Jeevan jach....., and I think I can understand her frequency........and guys, we have to remember that she is a gori that has come into a completely different culture and faith through completely her own choice and not via yoga or anything. ...Just for this sort of huge transformation, one has to be more than certain that it shall lead them towards the Truth.....Therefore, I very much doubt that she has fallen into spiritual trappings that are in opposite direction to Truth.
I feel she clearly understands that sikhi and doing 'sachey ki sift salah' is the manner to get to that sach (praising the truth to get to the truth)
 
 

Das I guess this explains why when I can't understand how others cant see things how I do... While some go to every length to separate gender and dictate restrictions because of it, I my whole life have only seen God in everything and everyone.  I can't step back into the physical way of seeing things... And It wasn't something I had to strive for - I have been having spiritual experiences since I was child.  So it's just the way I automatically have always seen everything.  So I often can't understand how some want to segregate people, and focus so much on the physical, when the physical is illusion... I only want to focus on what's beyond the physical (because I have seen glimpses for myself).  

​I'm posting this reply not to prove that you're not Spiritual, but just trying to show you the another aspect of what you call "I see God in everything and everyone". But please don't take it personally, its just somethings from personal experience.
"Seeing God in everything and everyone" is the second last stage on the Spiritual journey. At that stage one (I) cease to exist. One no longer tries to prove his/her point; One no longer tries to dump his/her thinking (point of view) on others. In other words, it is easier to say that "I see God in everything and everyone", but it is the practical stage. As long as you've certain like and/or dislikes or desires (even serving others) you're far from that stage and I'm sure that you too (like me) have strong likes/dislikes, I'm basing my this statement on your posts on this forum. So, please stop pretending and betraying yourself by thinking that you're seeing above the physical level. e.g Can you imagine that dead rotten Pig is laying in the street and you're very lovingly trying to eat it? You think beyond physical? Here my point is: It is the 'My version or point of view is correct' problem; sometimes its a good idea to think from another angle.
And don't take this rotten animal example to your heart and try things out; e.g there are some aghori sadhus who say that they do see God in everything and all opposites are illusion and therefore they perform some very wrong practices e.g eat disguising things including human flesh, feces. Their problem is the same that: They don't understand the real meaning but have started to act superficially. Again mind is at play.
Secondly, the experiences you're taking about since childhood are good, they are good as reward but at the same time they are NOT the real Spiritual experiences.........no pun intended but I don't want you to face the same problem many of us have faced. There are 2 aspects of this experiences:
1. They are good and should be treated as some reward but they in themselves are nothing, in-fact these are "The" most hard obstacles that one needs to cross.
2. Secondly, even the so-called ghosts (negative entities in lower planes) can Astral travel and can tell the past, present and future. They can also see other worlds, things like we do in our out-of-body travels. So, it proves that the experiences you're talking about does NOT hold that much Spiritual value as one seem them to attach. Just check if these experiences are holding you back to learn anything new. There is NO guarantee that whatsoever you're feeling, seeing, experiencing in these "experiences" are real. It is the game of Mind. He (Mind) is very clever, he can offer you something in which you're interested but his real intention is to hold you off from real stuff. 
These experiences are good as long as one learns from them and move forward.
From my personal experience, some time back I had these so-called experiences, at first I started to act like you that I know better as I've Spiritual experiences. But then I realized that these experiences are not taking me any further. So, eventually I lost interest in them. But then again, some Spiritual force/entity told me that even tough those experiences were from mind but those were good. In other words, I was told that it was good to have those experiences but one needs to take them in the limited positive sense and those experiences should act as catalyst that if I'm enjoying these so much, what the further stage holds for etc. They are good and bad at the same time depending upon how it is helping you.
At last, again, my intention is NOT to prove you wrong or NOT to say that your experiences are nothing......but just trying to warn (positively) you the hidden agendas in these experiences. We should stop thinking that these are somehow Spiritual experiences and but still should enjoy these experiences (they are good).

Hmm but if we never acknowledge anything we experience, then we will NEVER progress, and then what was the point?  You could be on the brink of merging back with creator/creation and deny what you are experiencing is real, and thrust yourself right back into the illusion. This is why so many people who actually have spiritual experiences (by this I mean experiences which give understanding that you are more than your physical shell.. you are a spiritual being, beyond the physical realm). Many more people actually experience things, but simply slough them off a dreams. This is the difference between KNOWING you exist beyond your this physical life, without ANY doubts, or just believing that you do.  It's a huge difference.  And you are saying that everyone should just ignore the knowing and go back to just believing blindly when they have been given actual proof through experience.  There are stories btw about Guru Nanak Dev Ji astral projecting...
And forgive for also saying, but what you are suggesting is that anyone who is spiritually aware, would not try to impose their thinking on others... meaning we should never try to change the bad in the world? It almost sounds like a self fulfilling excuse to allow atrocities to continue! (you're dammed if you do dammed if you don't? If you fight atrocities, that means you aren't spiritual in your explanation, because you are 'imposing' your thoughts on those doing the atrocities, and in order to be considered spiritual, you can't intervene at all and just have to accept them and allow them to continue?) Including sexism, discrimination based on rich/poor, racism etc.  However, the Gurus actually worked to create change for the better. They led by example... they also imposed that thinking on others... not forcefully, but showed others the better way.  And we can also continue to do so now. Otherwise, nothing will change, and humans will continue to try and outdo each other and control each other, hurt each other. etc.  And in the context of the OP, your post really sounds like a self fulfilling excuse to tell women if they fight back against the men telling them they cant do this, cant do that, it must mean the women are not spiritually awakened... and if they were spiritually awakened they'd just accept the limitations the men imposed on them.  That way the men get to continue to dictate everything to them, AND make them feel guilty and spiritually inferior for just wanting to have equal opportunity.  
But anyway what I was referring to has nothing to do about my OBEs - I mean my day to day life, I see the beggar on the street and I see the same light in them as I do in the richest man.  I just cant separate them in how I see them.  I also acknowledge that THEY do not see this themselves.  So I know the "play" still goes on, but I have an inner feeling to subtly show them both or give them at least a nudge.  And if either one was in need, I wouldn't hesitate to help them.  In fact I volunteer as a medical responder and part of that function is helping everyone who is injured or ill, no matter if they are a gangster or a new mother, or an elder lady, or a rich lawyer, a criminal etc.  and because this volunteer work is in the community, I have actually interacted with a LOT of people over the years, who when I saw them were all at their worst, and needing help, bleeding, unconscious, broken bones, or maybe just puking their guts up because they drank too much at a concert, etc. but when I respond, I see them all as humans. All people, all worthy of being helped.  Their background doesn't matter, their career doesn't matter, their gender doesn't matter (unless I have to emergency childbirth!) I dont care how much money they have.  A rich man and a poor man bleed the same, and require the same treatment to make it stop.  A woman with a broken leg and a man with a broken leg require the same splint.  I treat them all - and it's all free.  And they are all the same in those moments of need at their worst.  I have been bled on, puked on, yelled at by drunk people, hit, had people genuinely crying and asking me to tell them it will be ok and all I can do is hold their hand talk them through it until the ambulance arrived (since we are not medical professionals we are not allowed to tell someone it will be ok or not so some creative wording comes into play).  This is what gave me the understanding I have, and why I see everyone all the same now.  Its how I came to see God in everyone... 
I really really encourage people to volunteer for this reason...
Believe me when I say I actually know that all is one.  It's not a game of mind or "not real".  There is a connectedness I can't explain... I can't put into words.  Yes I have had out of body experiences, but this is something separate.  
So after seeing everyone off all sections of society at their most vulnerable... I just cant see why to give some as more privilege than others when it comes to spiritual matters / religious duties.  Thats the one part of our lives where differences SHOULD be thrown out the window, and everyone should be treated equally and given the same chances. Nothing anyone writes here can convince me otherwise at this point.  But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and talk down to me, and call me whatever you want. 

Please everyone stop these things: Who can sit on Tabiya or not.......
First of all, this is my thinking:
- I'm against those people who dogmatically say that women CANNOT sit on tabiya while menstruating and they go extra mile to prove their point.
- At the same time, I'm also against those people who dogmatically say that women CAN sit on tabiya while menstruating. These so-called equality finders also go extra mile to prove their point.
So, bottom line is both parties are not coming from real Spiritual experiences, they are merely saying.
Secondly, I request you to please read this throughly BEFORE responding.
Now, let me ask both parties the following questions:
For those who say women could sit on Tabiya while menstruating:
For how many times the woman in question sat on Tabiya when she was NOT menstruating? Practially, I found very rare, but for sake of proving their point-of-view-of-equality they would want to sit on Tabiya. In other words, your intention to sit on Tabiya is NOT love but just your mind/ego (remember mind's responsibility is to create doubts either way). Practically, I've seen Spiritual women prefering not to sit on Tabiya while menstruating, noone asked them to do so, it's just their internal feeling out of respect. Let's say, you're on menstruating cycle (with the thing in place inside) and on a nice morning you're eating breakfast and while eating the blood starts coming out, then let me know what your feeling is? Won't you stop eating for a split second i.e a thought crossing your mind? So, how would you expect that you can sit on Tabiya and do path respectfully. Watch your mind set during that period, it should give you some clue. During this period the energy is expanding and outward directed. Isn't Spirituality about turning inward? Is sitting on Tabiya the only way to remember God; it sounds like so as some people insist so much to sit on Tabiya during that time? For those who say women could not sit on Tabiya while menstruating:
Why can't they sit? Isn't God Himself present in the menstruation blood? Isn't Spirituality very above all these physical characterics? Isn't this whole body is filth covered with earth (skin). This damn body is full to filth (blood, salvia, and mucus everywhere)? Do you know that for the generation of Mind powers (some say Spiritual powers), Menstruation is the best time? Have you ever read Occult or Tantar material where menstruating blood along with semen has lot of powers? BlackMagic (because of centripetal/expanding energy) uses menstruating blood. Now, here what's happening in this case, people trying to dump the deeper meaning tuk (nothing is clean in this world) without reaching that higher level to practice it. It is NOT black and white.
People mix 2 different things here. In Spiritual journey, there are certain things which meant different for different level of people. e.g Would you allow a child of 2 years to cross the road by himself? No. But when the same child is grown up, he is instructed to cross the road alone. Same way, there are many things in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which one does need to follow till one reaches certain level and then the Arth/Meaning of those tuks change Itself (one does not need to take another meaning, the thinking automatically changes as per the level). In other words, the person knows the deeper meaning of the previous tuks.
e.g Let me share a story of a Bhagat Namdev Ji with you. Bhagat Namdev Ji did darshan of Sirgun roop of Waheguru 72 times. Once a Bramgyani came to his village and there were number of other Sadhus there. One Sadhu requested the Brahmgyani to tell them that which bhagat is Kacha/Not-fully-prepared and which is Pakka/Fully-prepared for real knowledge.  That Brahmgyani started touching each sadhu's head and told that everyone is Pakka Except Bhagat Namdev Ji. Bhagat Namdev Ji was upset at this because he was thinking that he is getting Waheguru's darshan everytime he remembers, then why that Bramgyani called him Kacha/not-fully-prepared. Bhagat Namdev asked the same question to Sirgun roop of Waheguru. Sirgun roop of Waheguru asked Bhagat Namedev to go to one Sadhu at particular place. Bhagat Namdev went to that place and saw that there is Sadhu but he was standing on "Salgram". Bhagat Namdev was very updset at this: Whyy GOD sent him to a Sadhu who has placed his foot on the "Salgram" (a stone which is worshipped as the Vishnu).  THen that Saint told Bhagat Namdev to place his feet where there is NO GOD. Then, that Saint told bhagat Namdev: that's why you were told kacha. After this Namdev got BrahmGyan and then he utered: "Ram bole Ram bole Ram bolda, sabna gata de wich Ram bolda".
This story is NOT asking one to abandon the rules. In-fact, it is stating that he is beyond everything and anything. But in order to reach that level, one needs to follow certain rules and being respectful is part of it. One cannot hit the sky (Nirgun) as Target, he/she needs something to aim the target.
It is NEITHER a matter of if women can sit on Tabiya, NOR it is a matter of if women are pure/impure during menstruating. It is just a matter of showing respect to the Guru as long as you're under the Laws of universe. Once you cross certain level, then things start to change: You no longer want to sit on Tabiya for some time as you're always accompanied by God. Things are different at different level. Have you ever visited any real Sant which would give you different answer depending upon the asker. It's not about the Truth, its about how you understand it. Otherwise, Truth is only God (Ek Onkar) and the rest is the explanation of that Truth.

Seems like a very well researched book.

I look forward to some more interesting postings from this.


Singhji, it's a little difficult to explain but I don't think t lures you away from real bhagti.
We have to use some form of tool to help focus and put our fixation on bhagti.
When meditating, some people use a little black dot or mandala to stare at. Some use a candle flame or jyot, but as sikhs, we use the dhun of gurmantar, tikuti, focus between brows, navel..etc..
I've learned that it is trying to find the right jugti that suits each of us according to how much devotion and bairaag we have.

Black and Muslim killers are terrorists but white killers are 'mentally ill'. 
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/charleston-shooting-black-and-muslim-killers-are-terrorists-and-thugs-why-are-white-shooters-called-mentally-ill-10330714.html
 

To OP:
 
Plus tell any staunch Muslim that his/her religion is somehow incomplete - and Sikhi completes (as implied in the thread title), and see what reaction you get. 

Ibrute ji, .....There should be no strain !
The Idea is to have your "attention' at that point in the beginning and not to be trying to hard to physically focusing there.
From my experience only.....I would suggest that you imagine a screen in front of you when your eyes are closed. Then you can even put your finger at the point to start with, which is just slightly above the middle point of eyebrows or where women usually have their bindi.
Then, imaging you are standing at that point and step back very slowly and comfortably as if going inwards and behind your eyes,(At this point your eye muscles may move slightly and that is ok )..........Then, just put your attention right where that finger spot is and you shouldn't really feel any eye muscle motion.
You will find that the eyes will actually become 'completely still" very near there and bingo!!.......that's exactly where you want them.
The ''stillness' and focus is the key that will lead to progress and it should all be in a relaxed and effortless mode.
...Give this a try and see how you get on in the meantime..... But if you are still having difficulty trying to put your attention in one particular area whilst maintaining some stillness,.. then I can give you a few more further tips to get some practice.
 
 
 
 

Ibrute ji, .....There should be no strain !
The Idea is to have your "attention' at that point in the beginning and not to be trying to hard to physically focusing there.
From my experience only.....I would suggest that you imagine a screen in front of you when your eyes are closed. Then you can even put your finger at the point to start with, which is just slightly above the middle point of eyebrows or where women usually have their bindi.
Then, imaging you are standing at that point and step back very slowly and comfortably as if going inwards and behind your eyes,(At this point your eye muscles may move slightly and that is ok )..........Then, just put your attention right where that finger spot is and you shouldn't really feel any eye muscle motion.
You will find that the eyes will actually become 'completely still" very near there and bingo!!.......that's exactly where you want them.
The ''stillness' and focus is the key that will lead to progress and it should all be in a relaxed and effortless mode.
...Give this a try and see how you get on in the meantime..... But if you are still having difficulty trying to put your attention in one particular area whilst maintaining some stillness,.. then I can give you a few more further tips to get some practice.
 
 
 
 

Ibrute ji, .....There should be no strain !
The Idea is to have your "attention' at that point in the beginning and not to be trying to hard to physically focusing there.
From my experience only.....I would suggest that you imagine a screen in front of you when your eyes are closed. Then you can even put your finger at the point to start with, which is just slightly above the middle point of eyebrows or where women usually have their bindi.
Then, imaging you are standing at that point and step back very slowly and comfortably as if going inwards and behind your eyes,(At this point your eye muscles may move slightly and that is ok )..........Then, just put your attention right where that finger spot is and you shouldn't really feel any eye muscle motion.
You will find that the eyes will actually become 'completely still" very near there and bingo!!.......that's exactly where you want them.
The ''stillness' and focus is the key that will lead to progress and it should all be in a relaxed and effortless mode.
...Give this a try and see how you get on in the meantime..... But if you are still having difficulty trying to put your attention in one particular area whilst maintaining some stillness,.. then I can give you a few more further tips to get some practice.